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This is the best summary I could come up with:
Addressing the annual Tory party conference today, Mr Sunak also promised to restrict the availability of vapes under plans to “put the next generation first”.
Read More:Rishi Sunak confirms northern leg from Birmingham to Manchester will be scrappedSunak says nobody wants an election - the truth is he can’t risk one | Beth Rigby
Ministers have faced repeated calls to ban vapes to help protect children and reduce the significant environmental impact of the single-use products.
It commissioned a review, published last June and led by Dr Javed Khan, which made a series of recommendations, including increasing the legal age for buying tobacco.
Cancer Research UK’s chief executive Michelle Mitchell said: “Raising the age of sale on tobacco products is a critical step on the road to creating the first ever smoke-free generation.”
“Future generations of adults who are considered old enough to vote, pay taxes, drive a car and drink alcohol are going to be treated like children and denied the right to buy a product that can be purchased legally by people a year older than them.”
The original article contains 665 words, the summary contains 179 words. Saved 73%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
He should also star making crimes illegal so that they can live in a society without crime /s.
But what will boebert do while jerking off dudes at movie theaters?
Or do it like Germany: make vaping extremely expensive so people go back to smoking. Stupid.
Punishing the symptom, great idea
What a weird take. Nobody is punishing people who smoke.
In a physical health perspective, smoking is the cause, or contributing factor, to a lot of problems. In what perspective is smoking a symptom?
In what perspective is smoking a symptom?
Any perspective that isn’t being deliberately obtuse (if you cared you’d have looked it up and seen for yourself all of the evidence that exists, but it’s easier to go the “personal responsibility” route and ignore the societal and economical factors, because acknowledging those makes you too uncomfortable)…
So don’t get me wrong, I fully support this kind of measure.
But there’s potentially an argument to be made that there is an issue (or more likely multiple issues) that isn’t being addressed properly that is leading people to choose to smoke. It’s well known to be harmful, addictive, and frankly doesn’t have many upsides. What that bigger issue could be is kind of up for debate- is it a failure of the education system or health system not doing enough to educate people about the harm and risks? Is it a mental health issue leading people to choose self destructive behaviors or possibly a conscious or subconscious attempt to self medicate those issue? Is it a societal issue like peer pressure, portrayals in the media, people emulating role models, or just plain old rebellion? Is it due to regulations or enforcement being too lax?
Whatever it is, there may a root cause that isn’t being sufficiently addressed that makes people choose destructive behaviors like smoking, which makes smoking a symptom of that bigger issue. And what other vices are those same factors pushing people towards? Maybe addressing those kinds of underlying issues the right way might do more good than just getting people to stop smoking, maybe we’d kill 2 birds with one stone and also make headway on other substance abuse issues, or gambling addictions, etc.
Now again, I’m totally in support of this kind of regulation. Sometimes you need to treat the symptoms before/while to treat the underlying disease. But we need to be sure we’re looking at it from both angles.
So is drinking.
I guess we ban alcohol too, huh. Oh wait, we tried that.
You must be one of the, “I don’t like it so neither should anyone else” people.
“we tried that” do you know who sunak is?
Most countries have set a legal age for drinking alcohol.
I take the view that smoking is a behavior that is largely impacted by socioeconomic factors. To put it plainly, it’s something you mostly see among the poor.
Not saying that I agree with RS’s policy proposal but what is wrong with targeting smoking cessation especially amongst the poor? If poor people quit smoking, that’s better for their health, the health of those around them/who live with them (secondhand smoke), and their wallets.
I don’t have a problem with the intended result, but I would rather see an approach that is reformative rather than punitive or prohibitive, since those methods tend to create dark markets; in my town quite recently, illegal cigarettes worth more than a small home were seized from a single shop. I come from America, where we have had issues with prohibition-style laws, so I feel that I see where it leads.
I would rather see community funding for smoking cessation resources and support groups, education initiatives in schools, and broader policies aimed at decreasing the underlying wealth inequality that drives the behavior.
it’s something you mostly see among the poor.
It is, until it isn’t.
And when it isn’t, we should all cheer.
Okay.
I’m just sorta reading what the researchers said. Did I misread it? Are they wrong?
no shot they read it
That’s gonna work splendidly since underage people would never dare to smoke!
Ehhhhhh, you make it permanently harder for a generation and eventually, barring a political change, you need to find an 80 year old to boot cigarettes for you from that one shop down the road that still caters to a rapidly shrinking audience.
Not to say that this is a good idea or one with which but long-term, it could work. (Or at least reduce smoking to a relatively minor few.)
Eventually stores will just stop selling them. Why stock cigarette when you only sell 10 packs a month.
I think it’s a great idea. People will create a black market for them, but it will be really small and die out.
It’s not like you really get anything from it like you do from alcohol or other drugs.
People will create a black market for them, but it will be really small and die out.
There’s already a black market for tobacco, and it will just grow in size not shrink. You can buy 50g for like £5 on DNMs.
Yeah, the risk is that if the black market becomes large enough, it will mean youths will have easier access to cheaper cigarettes than the current situation (with the added issue of cigarettes being entirely unregulated, meaning they’re going to put God knows what in them).
This is a woefully ignorant take
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It’s not like you really get anything from it like you do from alcohol or other drugs.
Similar ehhhhhh as earlier.
There are moments when a cigarette gives you an amazing or just right, feeling, for lack of a better word. In reality you’re just sating a self inflicted addiction, but it can feel great to do so.
I don’t think it’s a good trade, that’s why I no longer smoke, but I understand the simple pleasure. Even if in the long, medium, heck, often even short term that pleasure has stupid costs.
It’s a nice theory but it does sort of forget that other countries exist - the black marketeers will just smuggle tobacco in. They’re also going to be guaranteed a market of younger immigrants who’ve gotten addicted in another country.
Sure, at first, absolutely, though even then you are raising the cost of smokes, not just financially but convenience, potential customer base (not everyone has the connections or would feel comfortable buying on the resale market) etc.
Long run, sure, smokers will probably always exist. But at the point where it’s awkward to smoke in public you’ve probably cut down on a good percentage of smoking at all.
It’s still gonna slowly reduce use. And that’s better than nothing.
Finally something sensible from this guy. Last week it was all big auto lobby nonsense.
I think this is deeply illiberal. There are some cases where bans make sense like the XXL Bully dog ban that has been mooted. But I don’t think the government should be able to decide what an adult puts in their own body.
My dad was an oncologist for years and he said that one of the reasons we’re having trouble in the NHS is that people have stopped smoking. Unfortunately if you are stricken with lung cancer then your prognosis is not good - and while this is a tragedy - you potentially could end up costing much more money in terms of social care and hospital visits if you carry on to live to a later age but get stricken with a more complex degenerative disease.
This is disappointing. Honestly I has found Sunak to be a relief on the whole after our previous few Prime Ministers, probably on par with Therasa May. In my opinion this is a cynical attempt to steal a policy that Labour’s Wes Streeting was going to announce soon in order to take the wind out of his sails.
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I see angry wankers want to moan for the sake of moaning.
Eliminating smoking is a goos thing! I’ll take my wins whenever possible, doesn’t happen all that often.
But but there are other things that are also bad and if one proposal doesn’t solve everything it is complete trash!!!
Banning it for everyone is OK, telling some people that they can’t ever because they were born too late is silly, discriminatory and will inevitably create a flourishing black market.
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First and foremost, people have the right to slowly kill themselves with cigarettes as long as it isn’t harming innocent bystanders.
Arguably more importantly, the proposed ban is worryingly dystopian.
Finally, agreeing with anything Sunak does is unforgivable. And in this case would reflect neo-liberal sympathies.
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Humans have been smoking tobacco for thousands of years. Banning it will only allow the black market to swell to an unimaginable size
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They absolutely are talking about any form of tobacco…hell track and trace in the EU has effectively destroyed the nasal snuff industry in Germany…a form of tobacco that has no deaths on its hands… literally. This is just ignorance being used in the name of “think of the children” hell that’s one of the main things everyone keeps bringing up in this thread.
Meanwhile, smoking has been on a sharp decline for decades, is no longer a mass killer…while obesity is and alcoholism has grown 10 fold, so much so that they created a new label called social drinkers because it would put a massive amount of the population into alcoholic territory.
By that logic we should continue slavery. Aren’t you worried someone’s going to purchase one of your children on the black market!?
Slaves don’t grow on trees though
Moving the goalposts or something like that?
You can imagine it, it would be less than the amount that is currently being smoked.
Not necessarily. People could actually start smoking more because tax free cigarettes are astronomically cheaper
Are people smoking less weed now it’s legal in many US states?
Where do you think tax free cigarettes are going to come from?
They are either domestic bootlegs or imports. If cigarettes were actually fully banned, organized crime groups would begin mass cigarette smuggling and manufacturing operations. Sounds ridiculous, but it’s true
Except smokers always insist on slowly murdering everyone around them and littering everything in their path. If you want to smoke in a hermetically sealed room and not get close to me for at least 6 hours after, fine by me.
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I mean, I understand that it smells really bad to non smokers. On the other hand, statements like this seem so ridiculously over the top that it makes me question you as a person.
We live in car country - assuming you are German as well -, with a wide variety of unhealthy crap that you have to inhale on a daily basis. Smog, exhaust fumes, half the food we can buy is unhealthy.
Honestly I don’t understand how people can be so worked up about smokers in that context. Is it because those are people you can bitch at and boss around, instead of nebulous corps and governments who ignore your calls for climate action and environment protection?
Otherwise it makes no sense. Smokers are already segregated away from non smokers nowadays, what about their freedom to live (or die) as they want? Your freedom not to smell unpleasant things doesn’t trump that. Me farting in your vicinity doesn’t constitute harm to your individual rights.
Your freedom ends where mine begins. You are free to kill yourself, but not to blow cancerous substances on top of me - and yes, that should include cars.
I generally agree, just that it seems cheap to pile on smokers like they are some sort of lepers. Also you are free to go somewhere else when around a smoker. Their habit doesn’t make them second class citizens, or should I say your freedom ends where theirs begins?
If we want clean air we have to start with the actual polluters, not the easy pickings who are just random people. That’s like, obsessively worrying about your personal climate impact when the vast, vast majority of climate change is caused by just a handful of corporations.
Also you are free to go somewhere else when around a smoker.
That’s not how it works.
Also you are free to go somewhere else when around a smoker.
Their children aren’t.
Also you are free to go somewhere else when around a smoker.
Not always.
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First and foremost, people have the right to slowly kill themselves with cigarettes as long as it isn’t harming innocent bystanders.
That’s the thing with smoking though, second hand smoke is a big problem, especially for vulnerable people
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You may not know it because you’re a smoker (smokers’ noses are completely and irreparably fucked), but normal people can tell a cigarette was lit in a 10 meter radius, even on a windy day.
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Let’s be honest, people just hate smoking and want to get rid of it.
See, you get it afterall!
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I’m surprised they can still walk around outside, when there are literally cars everywhere. Those are killing way more people on ‘second hand’ exposure than tobacco.
Whataboutism.
as long as it isn’t harming innocent bystanders.
Considering that’s exactly what second hand smoke does, I really don’t see what point you’re trying to make.
Except it doesn’t, less than 9% of the population in the USA uses tobacco in any form, including in that group is past smokers and vapers so it’s probably around 7% or less. Continually attacking a vice that’s basically done is just virtue signaling bullshit. Alcoholism has skyrocketed and kills way more people a year, and obesity is now our number one killer by miles. No one is dying from second hand smoke…you sitting in traffic is doing way more damage to your body than getting a random breeze of smoke from someone outside.
No.
What they are trying to say is to ban it in public areas, but not at home.
But consumption isn’t being banned…
“If I don’t like it, then neither should anyone else!” - you
“If it harms the people using it (and makes them addicted and unable to stop even if they wish to), the people around them, and the planet, I don’t like it”
- actually me
So, ban alcohol then.
Cause that worked so well the first time.
If I never have to smell cigarette smoke again and also no one ever uses the medical system to cure the consequences of smoking then I don’t care. Otherwise I am all for this.
Yea not everything is a partisan issue, and this seems like a good thing? Antismoking efforts have largely been successful in a lot of places.
It’s not one of those things where someone is choosing to harm themselves only. Smoking affects the people around you
So many people like to portray everything as a 'personal choice' while ignoring all said implications to others. Very rarely does something only actually impact you.
With enough hoop jumping anything can have a terinary chain of impact if you need to justify your cause.
Too many people use it as a cop-out to avoid being accountable. It's like when meat eaters say it's a 'personal choice.' Like yeah, it is a choice you mean, but it also implicates other things not only you.
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The difference being that cigarettes are always unhealthy, no matter how many you smoke, they procure zero benefits. McDonald’s is just a meal and becomes an issue if you eat too much of it, once every now and then won’t have any consequences.
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I mean… I wouldn’t complain if megacorporation fast food restaurants that provide nothing but cheap, unhealthy junk were driven out of business…
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We must save people from themselves! Don’t let them make any decisions since they could make bad ones!
I feel we’ve done a good enough job at making smoking undesirable, effectively banning it is excessive. It would be better to focus on doing what was done to cigarettes to vapes. Kids arent smoking nearly as much but theyre vaping like mad. I see kids as young as 13-14 doing it. Vapes are allowed to look appealing, combine that with their nice smell and flavour, ofc young people are going to gravitate toward them instead.
Make it so vape packaging is bland and has similar warnings as cigarretes, and actually teach kids about addiction instead of just a hard “dont touch these”. Everyone with a braincell knows that if you ban something from young people, theyre gonna do it more
the problem is there’s actually zero evidence vapes alone (without nicotine etc) do any harm. The vapes which the industry is moving towards is just largely the same as steamed and cooling water vapour. It’s totally harmless.
Sadly though, vaping is associated almost entirely with nicotine. I know plenty who vape, but no one who vapes 0% juice. I havent personally done much research about them but inhaling any fumes is a net negative. Although vapes are far less harmful tham cigarettes, nicotine addiction is still there, and these kids are getting it. Im one of the few of my generation that used vapes for their original purpose, quitting smoking and they work great, but its depressing af seeing kids caning vapes just knowing its already an addiction for them
There’s plenty of evidence that vapes are harmful not as harmful as cigarettes but still.
There’s zero evidence! (just ignore the mounds of evidence saying that it’s still fucking awful for you)
I mean I very recently got diagnosed with polycythaemia that was caused by excessive vaping. Which has seen marked improvement since I stopped.
The problem is its still too new to do long term (10+ year) studies on vaping and health institutions still don’t collect data on vape usage.
I think they should raise it by 1 year every 2 years.
Broken clock right twice a day type of deal with Sunak
