Israeli officials are facing backlash after years of Prime Minister Benjamin “Bibi” Netanyahu quietly allowing Hamas to remain in power.
But reporting in the New York Times has revealed that Netanyahu’s government was more hands-on about helping Hamas: they helped a Qatari diplomat bring suitcases of cash into Gaza, indirectly boosting the militant organization, according to the report.
The calculus — the Times reported on Sunday, citing Israeli officials, Netanyahu’s critics, and the man’s own reported statements — was to keep Hamas strong enough to counteract the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank, allowing Netanyahu to avoid a two-state peace solution and keep both sides weak.
Israeli security officials got it wrong; they didn’t think Hamas was capable, or even interested, in launching a large attack against the Jewish state.
Israeli security officials got it wrong; they didn’t think Hamas was capable, or even interested, in launching a large attack against the Jewish state.
I wholeheartedly don’t think they cared. Netanyahu and the other far right Knesset officials clearly knew about the impending attack, clearly they might as well have killed those people themselves.
they literally did. that is what “allowing an action you could have stopped” means. They chose killing.
At least Israelis have recognised that the blood is in Bibi’s hand on October 7 attack. Many predict that the next elections could oust him for good.
Fascists allowing a couple of “common people” from “their side” to die in order to open the door for more violent action by said Fascists is just tradition.
got it wrong
No? No they got exactly what they wanted. They’ll be able to annex all of Gaza and eventually the west bank.
They sacrificed their people to accomplish their colonist goals.The plan went swimmingly.
Correct, which is exactly the same thing the Zionist Federation of Germany did during WWII. They sold out their own people in order to keep much of their assets while beginning the process of annexing British Mandatory Palestine.
Make no mistake, these same Zionists went on to form Lehi, among other terrorist/militant organizations that share a direct link to modern day Likud. Every policy the modern right wing Israeli government has employed they borrowed directly from the Third Reich’s playbook.
They are literally genocidal, ethno-supremacist, crypto-fascist psycopaths. In no way is that hyperbole. They are essentially Israeli Nazi’s.
Gonna look into this myself later, but I hope you’re lying. That would be some fucked up shit
Go read that Wikipedia information I linked. This isn’t some rabbit hole conspiracy theory. There were multiple attempts by Zionist militant groups (including Lehi) to actively align with Nazi Germany against Britain during WWII. The context is more nuanced than what I am going to be able to explain in a comment here, but I encourage you to research the inter-war period of British Mandatory Palestine that lead up to the modern Israeli state.
I love that “pointing out undisputed historical facts that are provable and verified through many sources” often gets met with “quit with the crazy conspiracy theories and anti-______-ism”, regardless of which group you are apparently making conspiracy theories about.
Reading though it now and you’re pretty spot on. Obviously there’s a lot more nuance, but seeking an alliance with literal Nazis isn’t a good look.
Btw, your link to Lehi is broken.
Do you mind pointing out where “the Zionist Federation of Germany sold out their own people to keep their assets” ?
Regarding the nuance it’s not unimportant that Lehi was an offshoot of an offshoot and certainly not representative for the entire Yishuv. They were sentenced for their actions (but later pardonned).
In '40-'42 no on knew who was going to come out victorious, so different factions were betting either on both horses. The mufti of Jerusalem, for example, was going all in for the nazi’s. And a lot of Arab nationalists actually preferred Germany over the British which they hated for letting in (jewish) immigrants.
As I understand it, one Lehi leader (Yitzhak Shamir) went on to become Israel’s PM for two terms. He also approved the assassination of Folke Bernadotte, a Swedish diplomat working to negotiate peace in the region.
It’s clear they had influence in post-WW2 Israel.
They sure did, they tried to rehabilitate them. Yithzak Rabin was part of a terrorist group as well, went on to serve as PM for two terms, and was assassinated for working towards a two state solution…
Who? The Palmach? At least they didn’t try to ally with the Nazis like Lehi.
I believe they’re talking about the Haavara agreement. From my understanding the Jewish community worldwide was boycotting Nazi Germany by not doing business with them, and the Haavara agreement was seen as cooperation with the Nazis and their anti-Semitic policy.
That agreement was about paying nazi Germany to facilitate migration to Israel. But riccosuave is making a comparison with Bibi sacrificing a few thousand of his citizens to create a casus belli. So I guess/hope he’s talking about something else?
I mean this isn’t anything new. We’ve known this since at least 2015 when ex-IDF top brass officials that worked in Gaza during the occupation have come clean about it in interviews. And the motivation behind this is also logical. The palestinian authority was playing the white man’s game. They were going through the UN, filing motions against Israel, passing resolutions, and so on. Hamas is much easier to deal with. They don’t bother with all that civilised bureaucratic stuff, in part because no one recognizes them anyway. It’s easier to drop bombs on Hamas than on PA officials and thus continue the illegal occupation. As the current Israeli president has put it in an interview before: “Hamas is an asset” for Israel. [1] They’re easier to work with.
[1] https://theintercept.com/2023/10/14/hamas-israel-palestinian-authority/
It clearly is not known by people who go “Israel is needs to defend itself against Hamas”. It’s an obvious contradiction if you know Israel funds Hamas, which means, considering Hanlon’s razor, those people simply don’t know any better.
It wasn’t Israel funds being smuggled in, it was Qatari funds. And how would it have looked if Israel blocked official Qatari aid to Gaza?
If you want the technicality that it wasn’t Israeli money then sure, but everyone knew what that money was for and Israel wasn’t just complicit in handing it over, per the very article Israel actually lobbied in the US to not sanction Qatar. Furthermore Israel’s finance minister Bezalel Smotrich has said “The Palestinian Authority is a burden, and Hamas is an asset” and Netanyahu has expressed similar sentiment “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas”
The Israeli government wants to keep Hamas in power because when your opposition look like crazed lunatics it’s much easier to seem like the sane one for running the worlds biggest open air prison.
Of course they lobbied not to sanction Qatar. Once again how would it look to the world if Israel worked to deny aid to Palestine?
And I never said Netanyahu was a swell guy, he needs to be removed from power as well as Hamas.
The whole idea that they wouldn’t want to look bad that way is just stupid. They don’t want to seem like they’d deny aid to Palestine but have no problem shooting peaceful protesters in Gaza? Or doing air strikes? Or having long-term blockade of Gaza which keeps the entire region is a perpetual humanitarian crisis? No, not allowing Qatar to send money to Hamas under the guise of giving the people money is a step too far.
Oh and Netanyahu is the one who wanted money from Qatar to reach Gaza, other politicians (outside of his influence) were against it. Think about it, why would someone who doesn’t want Gaza to exist make sure that money reaches Gaza?
Given the thousands of rockets fired at Israel by Hamas from Gaza every year, the international community is understanding of a blockade being put in place.
Denying the passage of aid across that blockade however would be seen as far worse.
And the current air-strikes are a result of a large scale attack against Israel, so they are seen by many as justified. Though you can see most of the world now sees Israel as going too far. Thus proving that Israel can only get away with so much before their allies drop off.
Given the thousands of rockets fired at Israel by Hamas from Gaza every year, the international community is understanding of a blockade being put in place.
Is somehow understandable by the international community
Denying the passage of aid across that blockade however would be seen as far worse.
Not aid, money. And somehow not understandable by the international community despite the US verifying that the money sent goes to Hamas? So preventing funds for those rockets is not understandable by the international community?
They fed a monster to destroy diplomacy and then act surprised when the monster mauled them.
Not quite. Hamas and Netanyahu are still quite comfortable. It creates a political situation they both want. The latter is “surprised” at all the innocent people the monster killed, but in reality they don’t give a shit. The government gets to consolidate its strength and kill more people.
They’re enriching themselves off the backs of the Palestinian and Israeli people.
Because it then gives justification to seize the land
I doubt it was the initial plan but that certainly seems to be how they are rolling now. Now they have a solid casus belli to justify massive bombing on a population.
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Unless Evangelicals in the US lose significant political power, it’s unlikely that the US will stop backing Israel. While Israel has been useful for foreign policy n the middle east, the base of Republican support is because they believe that Jews must control Jerusalem for Jesus to come back. (Yeah, I wish that was a weird joke. Sadly, it’s not. Lots of Evangelicals are antisemitic, while still supporting the state of Israel.)
Both parties show unwavering support for.israel, but evangelicals are only relevant to the Republicans. It’s not them, they’re a red herring. It’s weapons manufacturers. They exert a strong power equally over both sides of the aisle, and they make money when people are shooting each other. You can thank the likes of Raytheon, Northrop, and general dynamics for the state of Middle Eastern diplomacy.
dude did joshua tree enjoy tasting you you fuck?
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Holy shit. Wow. I’d say you wrecked him, but that might be understating it.
The european world will come around once it realizes israel is the only reason the radical muslims arent targetting WEU.
It might be a bit naïve to assume that wasn’t the initial plan. I’m not sure which is the case, but I wouldn’t put it past the right-wing coalition parties to be knowingly creating an enemy to have them attack you so you can attack back with the force of a thousand suns. It’s a pretty smart plan, they’ve just bungled what they thought would be the international response because the West has always backed Israel 100% without a hint of criticism.
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This is the best summary I could come up with:
Israeli officials are facing backlash after years of Prime Minister Benjamin “Bibi” Netanyahu quietly allowing Hamas to remain in power.
The calculus — the Times reported on Sunday, citing Israeli officials, Netanyahu’s critics, and the man’s own reported statements — was to keep Hamas strong enough to counteract the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank, allowing Netanyahu to avoid a two-state peace solution and keep both sides weak.
Israeli security officials got it wrong; they didn’t think Hamas was capable, or even interested, in launching a large attack against the Jewish state.
As part of a peace agreement with Hamas, Qatar would bring millions into Gaza to distribute to Gazan families, the outlet reported.
Israeli security officials would meet with a Qatari diplomat at the border between Israel and Jordan, according to the New York Times report.
The propped-up peace lasted until October 7, when Hamas fighters launched a terror attack across the Israeli border.
The original article contains 348 words, the summary contains 155 words. Saved 55%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
“IDF Claims”
Wasn’t al qaeda also funded by US back in its early days?
Pretty sure every terrorist group has US funding. All those caves in Iraq/Afghanistan were built by the Bin Ladens with funding from the US just to be bombed 20 years later.
Wasn’t this so they can justify not doing a 2statesolution on the world stage?
Which apparently Hamas was fine with.
Is hamas fine with a 2 state solution? I thought the issue was that Palestine was beginning to concede one so net@yahoo propped up hamas so they can keep fighting
Here the original & complete NY times article, for those who want to read what they have written, and not what is speculated.
Why is everyone mad about politics these days again? This shit is fine
In case there are clueless folk here, america pulls stunts just as bad as this - CIA dealing cocaine to poor blacks in order to destabilize cities, to list just one unequivocal one - literally every day.
Someone doing something terrible is not justified because someone else is doing the same terrible thing.
What the US has done is unconscionable.
Your definition of fine is weird.
I’d love to see this tried in a court of law some day.
“Look judge, people kill each other all the time. I don’t know why we’re making such a big deal out of this. Geeeesh. Bunch of whiners.”
Anyway, people criticize the US for this stuff all the time. The whole idea of the left is to learn from and evolve and grow past those horrible roots.
wtaf
It makes a sick kind of sense. If you’re one of the conservatives in power in Israel, and you oppose a two-state solution that would give Palestinians autonomy, keep two weaker factions fighting each other rather than stabilizing a new country.
It doesn’t excuse the inhuman barbarism committed by Hamas against civilians, but it does mean Netanyahu should be immediately removed from power and arrested.
The Palestinian Authority is the only organization there with any actual legitimacy, and had Israel publicly, openly supported it, Hamas could never have gotten a foothold, while the Palestinian Authority would have had reason to normalize relations with Israel.
Do you know the backlash israel would get if it could install governments in gaza?
Lmao yall want israel to govern gaza and also not. No matter what israel does. It is gonna be the jews fault right?
Ummm, are you sure you responded to the right comment? I didn’t suggest Israel install a government in Gaza. I described something Netanyahu and his fellow conservatives did to keep Palestine from stabilizing, and I said Israel could have avoided the current state of affairs by not doing that.
Conservative israelis def destablized palestinian government. But they cant prop hamas or pla. Palestinians have to do that. The conservative Israeli government just destablized hamas
The article is literally about Israel stabilizing Hamas to keep it and the Palestinian Authority struggling for control and keeping Palestine destabilized overall.
Destablized hamas from the perspective of more violence is equivalent to stabilizing hamas against a state two solution. Apologies i was unclear.
Palestinians voted in hamas, not pla
Palestinians voted in Hamas in 2006, almost 20 years ago. Many of the Palestinians who voted in Hamas are dead of natural causes, and many who are of voting age today did not vote in Hamas. And no 18-year term is valid in any democracy.
It’s not necessarily new information, just that the NYT has conglomerated everything we already knew into a single article.
But it’s been pretty well known that Netanyahu and Israel were responsible for Hamas existing and being funded in the first place, in order to undermine the Palestinian Authority that was actually making progress toward a two state solution, which Israel really hasn’t been in support of for decades, but had to pretend they supported to stay the “good guys”.
Are you surprised the genocidal regime that has been slowly eradicating a whole people for the past 70+ years could go this far?
As part of a peace agreement with Hamas, Qatar would bring millions into Gaza to distribute to Gazan families, the outlet reported.
Israel should have allowed this!
Hamas takes all that money, historically, and gives little or nothing to the people of Gaza. They literally deny the UNRWA the ability to distribute material aid.
It’s from the U.S. tyranny playbook: Allow a tragedy to happen, and then you get the support of the people to do whatever it takes to stop terrorism such as Pearl Harbor and 9/11.
Conspiracy theories and antisemitism go hand in hand.
Case in point right here.
I don’t understand how this is antisemitism
The belief that israel allowed hamas to attack them to take Palestinian land is anti semitic as fuck.
It has no basis in any available evidence. Israeli people were pissed at the incompetence of the government.
The only reason to peddle this lie is to propagate the belief of that Israel has no right to protect its Jewish citizens that Hamas wants to massacre.
I am not against Jewish people, but Netanyahu. There’s a difference.
And you even stated the people.were.pissed off over the incompetence of the government. So, it’s almost as if the government should have done better than they actually did.
So are you, in the context of this thread, under the belief that is a conspiracy to allow Hamas to do oct 7 in order for Jewish people to take Palestinian land? Despite that conspiracy theory having no evidence?
It is not nust Netanyahu trying to rescue the hostages. It is israelis too.
You keep saying no evidence but you clearly haven’t even tried google since the New York Times shows up pretty easily.
I already replied to this brainless line of thought. Scroll up when you get the reading comprehension.
I don’t fault anyone for being born, but I fault them for what they do with life. I am not against Jewish people, but Netanyahu’s regime. I do not support HAMAS, but the Palestinian people who, along with ethnic jews, are being exterminated. Nuance. Fine details.
Do you believe jewish people conspired to let hamas attack on oct 7 in order to take Palestinians land? Despite no evidence?
If you do, that is anti semitic.
Israel was built for European immigrants. They’re not Semitic. Arabs are.
There’s jews that lived ther, jews that migrated from Europe, and jews that came from the Ottoman states and the Middle East to escape discrimiation under islamic regimes. Descendants of the latter group being the largest today iirc
Dna sequencing shows that the Y chromosome from israelis is much closer to other middle easterners and jews that never left the middle east than any europeans.
This is an anti semitic lie that you peddle. The jews in israel rn have always been middle eastern.
I understand you are not implying that pearl harbour and 9/11 where inside jobs.
I think, you just referencing to the public support that followed those events. Right?
No, not inside jobs, but not dealt with appropriately so as to get America involved or to pass the patriot act. We know for a fact that the CIA was still trying to flip one of the terrorist pilots the day of.
Theres some who think the mistakes of Pearl Harbor wasn’t anything but incompetence/human error.
Not inside jobs necessarily but both events had credible foreknowledge of an imminent attack that wasn’t acted upon.
You know false positives exist right?
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Of course not. Hamas isn’t responsible for israel’s genocide. If anything the israeli response has shown the world just how much of a Nazi state israel truly is.
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Genocide is any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.Sure seems like Israel is trying to get a full bingo card on this one even if you reject the notion of «genocide».
And before you go for the “intent” get out of jail free card…
Israel’s Public Diplomacy Minister: "Erase all of Gaza from the face of the earth. That the Gazan monsters will fly to the southern fence & try to enter Egyptian territory or they will die & their death will be evil.
Gaza should be erased!"
Still questioning a genocidal intent?
How about Bibi Netanyahu saying “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. 1 Samuel 15:3 ‘Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass’," .
Defense Minister Yoav Gallant called residents of Gaza, about half of whom are children, “human animals” as he ordered a “complete siege” on the enclave including a total blockade of food, fuel, and electricity.
Former military officer Eliyahu Yossian said the IDF must enter Gaza “with the aim of revenge, zero morality, maximum corpses,” and toldChannel 14 in Israel on Monday that “there is no population in Gaza, there are 2.5 million terrorists.”
Earlier this year, Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said at an event in Paris, “There’s no such thing as Palestinians because there’s no such thing as a Palestinian people.” He also said the West Bank town of Huwara should be “wiped out” by “the state of Israel,” while Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu presented a map of what he called “The New Middle East”—without the illegally occupied West Bank, Gaza, or East Jerusalem—at the United Nations General Assembly just weeks before the onslaught in Gaza began.
Sure seems like a pattern of intent. I could find you that video of Bibi back in 2002 saying much the same if you like. This isn’t new.
Not to say the Israeli isn’t 110% shit but the ‘bingo card’ you present remains completely empty. Sure they’d like all Gazans to flee to Egypt but anyone calling this a genocide just hasn’t seen a real genocide yet
It was hubris and arrogance and incompetence.
He is a conspiracy nut
No, not at all, but I understand new facts can change upheld beliefs.
What facts do you have that Jewish people allowed Oct 7 to happen?
Or even the american government allowing 9/11?
The Saudis are US allies. They did 911. Yet we remain allies. It doesn’t mean we ‘did it’ through them. But it’s suspect and deserves consideration.
A closer inspection already showed it was rogue saudi elements and a combination of arrogant, incompetent analysts during a transition period of presidencies.
You should give that consideration.
The New York times did a few pieces on it at the beginning of Dec.
“Israel Knew Hamas’s Attack Plan More Than a Year Ago.
A blueprint reviewed by The Times laid out the attack in detail. Israeli officials dismissed it as aspirational and ignored specific warnings.” https://archive.ph/SDOlUYeah, them dismissing it was a mistake. They thought it was BS.
They get a lot of threats. Some will be false positives or false negatives.
Doesnt mean they wanted or allowed the attack to happen. Ffs this entire thread is full of brain dead communists or some shit
full of brain dead communists or some shit
Communist?
I do not think it means what you think it means.
This is every colonizer’s playbook: you make constant small incursions, then when the people finally push back, you use it as an excuse to wipe them out and take the land.
Israel is the absolute worst
How so?
I’d hardly call what they’re doing unique
Oh no, Israel can’t be bad since everyone else also kills and maims, but let’s forget they have killed a large number of civilians in a span of 2 months, more journalists and medical professionals and UN workers in any other conflict ever. Boo fucking hoo.
Israel can’t be bad
Where did you get that from?
You were responding to someone saying Israel are the worst. Worst, being the superlative of bad and all.
“Absolute worst” and “bad” aren’t equivalent
Hmmm, you’re right, I guess it would be more correct like this: “Israel can’t be more bad than the average genocider…”
It would be more correct of a statement by you
But the person I replied to could have just called them bad…or explained why they are worse than every other genocidal group
I mean, who hasn’t done a little Genocide here or there amirite?
Historically it does seem to be a reoccurring theme but they aren’t even the only group doing that today
What exactly is your point? Because I seriously doubt that it’s math…
My point was to ask why they think Israel is the absolute worst
Ok. How far back are we talking in history? Just to know if I should throw Genghis Khan in or not, so we can do a top 10 and see where Israel lands
Feel like everyone is fair game if we are using “absolute”
im glad they’re finally talking about this in western media.
