A free trip for defection for North Koreans!
Curious how many will defect once outside North Korea.
Very few, as North Korea hand picks everyone who gets to leave by essentially keeping their entire family hostage, and any “traitor family” will find them sentenced to life in prison/labour camp - including any children born in those camps.
And they are places you wouldn’t wish for anyone to end up in, especially your loved ones.
You haven’t met my family.
According to hexbear you would have to have some deranged lib mind to believe any would want to.
NKers are simultaneously brainwashed morons who follow their leader with fanatical delusion and utterly naive children who can be lured to defection by a few pieces of candy and a charming smile.
The hexbears are too stupid to realize that all Koreans yearn for the unlimited freedom of their Southern neighbors and yet too wicked to believe the unvarnished truths of such media luminaries as Yeomni Park. They should all be sent to North Korea to eat grass and toil in the mines and get beaten to a pulp by Kim’s totalitarian police, then repatriated so that they can apologize for their ignorant beliefs.
Those children are completely delusional. I saw a thread about why the entire country is unlit at night which was a parody of itself. I wonder what their demographics are, if not 100% bots.
Surprisingly a lot of them on the Lemmy communities are also trans.
I’m not sure they’re aware how LGBT people are treated in those countries. Either that or just willful ignorance I guess
Server blocking hexbear is the only way to stay sane on Lemmy.
We defederated them a while ago over here. Along with some right wing instances too. The extremists from either side of the political spectrum really spoil the experience.
They sure do love authoritarianism more than they like leftism.
Maybe on account of the communities I subscribe to, but I’ve personally not come across right wing extremism on Lemmy. The tankies, though … so prevalent. Anyways, by server blocking hexbear it’s reduced by 90%.
Look @ the tankie!
/s
I guess my deranged mind was right. https://www.newsweek.com/north-korean-troops-deserting-ukraine-frontline-hours-after-arrival-report-1969726
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Most of the ones that do end up regretting it /shrugThis is wrong - it’s not that they end up regretting it so much as most of them never want to go to South Korea in the first place.
About 18% of North Korean defectors regret it.
The number one reason is wanting to see family and friends who are still trapped in North Korea.
The 18% figure is a biased sample from an anti-DPRK NGO. More comprehensive research into North Korean defectors by Cho Cheon-hyeon for his book Defectors indicate that most North Korean defectors simply want to make money in China, with only about 40% of defectors wanting to go to South Korea.
So I did misremember, but my point still stands on the fact that most of them don’t want to defect to South Korea, even before taking into account that even at their 2009 peak defectors were a tiny fraction of a percent of North Korea’s population and the existence of them in no way implicates all of North Korean society in secretly wanting to escape.
If so few people want to leave, why are so many resources directed into preventing people from leaving? I can’t think of any other country that works so hard to keep their citizens from escaping. Usually the largest barrier to leaving a country is the policies of the country you’re entering.
The fact they’re called defectors says it all. Anywhere else they’d be called emigrants.
That last statement is meaningless given the crazy levels of security they have on keeping people in. If they took away all the restrictions on leaving then the numbers would go through the roof.
About 18% of North Korean defectors regret it.
Around 20% of defectors have considered returning to North Korea. But that has less to do with the appeal of the North than the poor treatment of expats in the South.
The South Korean immigration and labor laws make finding work south of the border incredibly difficult. North Korean expats are confined to menial service sector and grueling industrial work while being largely cut out of South Korean social life due to heavy stigmas against them. Its an incredibly hard life and not remotely like the glamorous existence of social elites that Americans claim drive the periodic defections.
They need access to a better place. I suppose they just get financially stuck in S Korea? Or do the move on to other countries too, more willing to give them a chance?
North Korean expats are functionally stateless, so it is very difficult to leave South Korea even when they do have money.
The largest portion of the Korean diaspora live in China and Russia.
Why don’t we have a law for North Korea like the Cuban Adjustment Act that allows anyone who makes it out of the country to quickly become a permanent resident, without regard for how they got out of their country. The situation seems fairly similar, where encouraging more defectors makes the target country look bad, and it can deprive them of workers.
Is it difficult because airlines and whatnot won’t carry them, or because the receiving country won’t let them immigrate due to being “stateless”?
Are they stateless in a way someone coming from Bolivia to the US isn’t, because NK’s outside of some globally-recognized state system? I’ve never considered this before.
I’m sure you’ll be able to provide me with a sound study confirming this.
Not to worry! Li’l Kim’s Bestest Buddy and Honorary Number One Chief Saluter will be ready to help NK help Russia destroy Ukraine and NATO.
All you MAGA service “losers” and “suckers” got quite the cognitive dissonance jam rockin’ huh.
They’ll doublethink their way out of it somehow.
Biden broke all ties with North Korea after Trump. Reverting to the old demand to denuclearize before for any negotiations and imposing more sanctions.
As we have learned from Ukraine. no sane country should ever give up their nukes because they become a prime target for invasion. If Ukraine still had nukes Russia would never have invaded.
Biden has also imposed sanctions on NK which were undone by Trump
Now I’m not a an NK fan but I’m not sure why people think pushing NK away would make them more friendly. Unlike the past where American sanctions spelled doom and America could bend any country to their will, China and Russia are now picking up the countries America pushes away.
China and Russia are now picking up the countries America pushes away.
Pretty sure North Korea has been allied with China and Russia for way longer than the US has been “pushing them away”.
Well yes because America had been pushing North Korea away.
Trump tried to lay contact with NK. He might not have had pure motives for it. He usually doesn’t. But the action itself is not the problem.
Biden hitting NK with the “new number who dis” right after becoming president certainly doesn’t make them trust us more. And thus they have been pushed further into the arms of Russia.
The classic American imperialists refuse to accept that by sanctioning a country into oblivion they will now just join China and Russia’s side. They have alternative options.
Most Americans don’t even know why North Korea is so hostile. We bombed them into oblivion during the Korean war.
Well yes because America had been pushing North Korea away.
The classic American imperialists refuse to accept that by sanctioning a country into oblivion they will now just join China and Russia’s side.
Most Americans don’t even know why North Korea is so hostile. We bombed them into oblivion during the Korean war.
What the fuck is this revisionist history?
North Korea invaded South Korea in 1950, after the South refused Northern rule. The UN stepped in (90% American forces) pushing the North Koreans nearly to China’s borders, at which point China entered the war, and resulting in the 38th parallel armistice border we have today.
North Korea wasn’t pushed into China’s welcoming arms due to American anti-nuclear proliferation sanctions of the last twenty years, and “being bombed into oblivion” is often the result of picking on countries with bigger allies than you, just ask Germany and Japan.
China has propped up the Kim dictatorship dynasty for the last 70 years, feeding their starving masses while the Kims focus the country’s resources on military spending, including nuclear development to substantiate their annual saber rattling. Allowing China to maintain a buffer state, that’s kept the West at bay since 1951.
NK & SK were making historical progress towards reunification until Kim and Trump met. Look at the pics from the summit and the timeline of inter Korean relations and it’s clear as day. He’s the reason relations went downhill.
That military man looked really important. Even a king would salute.
It’s the hat that did it.
To be fair, the orange rapist found some good speed on that trip
To be fair, the orange convicted felon and rapist found some good speed on that trip
I hate this dunk because it’s clearly shown in the original video that the DPRK officer saluted Trump first. The president salutes like fifty Marines every single day, it’s not strange for him to reflexively salute someone else without thinking about it.
Probably best not to be running on autopilot around North Fucking Koreans though.
Eh, in Trump’s case it was best to be running in autopilot… His tweets were him “thinking”
It was a diplomatic meeting, what were they gonna do? Kidnap the president of the united states?
50 US Marines, of which he is their Commander in Chief.
North Korea has been an American rival since 1950. Imagine if any other President had done this.
But you don’t even have to, just look at the response to Obama bowing to the emperor of Japan, an ally.
My point is that if you see people salute you and you salute them back, do it enough times and it will become a reflex. The response to Obama bowing to someone in a culture where bowing is totally normal was equally stupid, but it was conservatives doing it instead of liberals.
If I were President, and I were meeting with an enemy face to face, and they saluted me, I’d salute them back.
I have not served in any military and am not aware of the official meaning of a salute.
But I have had enemies and if I were meeting with one of my enemies and they saluted me, I would salute them.
This is just based on my gut feel of the gesture’s meaning from watching movies. My gut feel is it’s a combination of:
- This handshake indicates we’re both listening intently and ready to talk
- I see you. We are the same despite our ranks, because we’ve both put ourselves here, and because we’re both equally susceptible to bullets.
I could be wrong, and I’m asking for correction if I am, but based on that I’d salute an enemy soldier if he was standing there ready to meet with me.
Thing is though, with a politician it’s different. I don’t know if Trump’s ever been shot at. Probably not. So the “hello, spiritual brother” thing that can apply to any other soldier even enemy is less there with a politician.
I don’t know. Just saying it seems natural to me to salute an enemy. Like “this sucks, maybe we can end it today” feeling to it for me. Framing the war as a problem they’re facing together.
Every picture of Putin and Kim together just looks like an adult tricking a kid.
Pyongangbang
Sometime back kim was crying so that women make more babies, now he is sending men to his friend. And we know the mortality rate of North Korea. I have never seen a country run out of people, I think I will see it soon
We’re getting a lot closer to a bigger global conflict as NK troops and American Military contractors begin to enter the fray. Anyone else feel like were inching closer to World War than we’ve been since the last one ended?
WW3 started two years ago
We’ve been inching closer and closer ever since 2014. Is not an excuse to abandon Ukraine though. Russia won’t stop cause we give them some land.
There’s a literal world of space between appeasing Putin and putting foreign soldiers on the battlefield. It’s not an either or.
Appeasement didn’t stop Hitler in the 30s and 40s. It won’t stop Putin now. It never works.
This isn’t going to do anything. First of all, North Korea is probably not going to send battle ready soldiers to a foreign country. There’s really no reason for it. They might send ditch diggers for trenches.
Second of all, this isn’t going to move the needle on the battlefield. Russia already has more troops than Ukraine. They need more and better arms and ammunition, plus better support, training, airplanes, missiles, drones, commanders, etc. Basically Russia needs a completely different military.
I don’t think what the soldiers end up doing makes it less international of a conflict. The point was there’s going to be sizesble amounts of foreign boots on the groun on both sides. That necessarily increases the international scope of the conflict beyond funding a proxy war.
In response to that Pyongyang announced early this week that it will be sending troops in the form of a military engineering unit to support Russian forces on the ground in the Donetsk region. The troops are expected to arrive on the battlefield as soon as next month.
One engineering unit isn’t much, but perhaps there is more to come. It didn’t say anything in the article about future commitments.
Ilya Ponomarev, a former Russian member of parliament told the UK’s Daily Express that North Korea has become an important bridge between the Kremlin and China. Beijing can indirectly transfer military equipment to Moscow through Pyongyang without falling foul of Western sanctions.
As he explained: “North Korea is one of key Russian partners and the meaning of the rationale behind them becoming such a partner is because they are acting as a bridge between China and Russia.
“Essentially all the military equipment that is delivered from North Korea was developed for the North Koreans by the Chinese.
Perhaps this is less about North Korea then it appears on the surface. I wonder what Russia is giving China for this help?
News in 30 days: Digestive Parasites are up 70,000% in Eastern Ukraine.
Funny thing is the eventual survivor won’t be brought back to NK after having seen the lavish lifes the russians live…
Or the lavish living conditions of a Ukraine POW cell.
So it’s OK for Ukraine to invite friends along to help too?
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the US announced it would lift the ban on American contractors going to Ukraine at the same time as this. Russia reaps what it sows. Ukraine gets highly payed and skilled contractors, in return, Russia gets malnourished and untrained Korean conscripts.
Zerg swarm VS marines
The best tactic Ukraine could have at this point would just be to encourage the North Koreans to defect. Can’t imagine it’ll be particularly difficult, “hey switch sides and we won’t kill you, and here’s a free house with electricity, water and indoor plumbing”.
It would be like trying to convince people to leave the 15th century.
… “and don’t worry about your family back home in North Korea who will be compressed into tinned meal”.
The defection rate will be low I suspect. It’s an automatic TFK (total family kill) to defect and I doubt they’ll send anyone who don’t have family at home in Glorious Motherland!
I wonder if many will even fight? If I were from North Korea, I’d consider surrender to be a godsend. They would do terrible things to the family members, though… I guess that’s the true cruelty of regimes like this. They punish the people you love.
Russia gets malnourished and untrained Korean conscripts.
Just offer them all plane tickets to South Korea. Problem solved.
I dont think it’s quite the same thing though. US contractors won’t be fighting, I think they’ll just be maintaining and repairing equipment.
Arguably, a much more critical job for a capital-intensive army.
Yes, it’s actually huge. Especially for maintaining a weapon as complicated as an Abrams tank. If it can be repaired close to the front lines then that has the potential to cut days off the turnaround time compared to towing it over to Poland.
I will never understand why the American military think it’s a good idea to send them tanks that are so complicated. Especially when they’re going up against cold war era relics.
Long term investment. Same as in Israel. Trying to save democracies from annihilation.
Because it’s what we have to send. It’s not like we have a lot of extra Sherman tanks we can send anymore.
Do we have non-complicated tanks?
The North Koreans are perfect for the Russian tactic of forcing the Ukrainians to deplete their ammo by throwing meat at them.
According to Russian propaganda Ukraine has been doing just that the entire time, but if it actually happened that would be yet another red line to cross.
I’m putting good money down that they either have mass surrenders, or they’re just too malnourished to fight.
Possibly both.
Oh, oh! Or they refuse to come back from Russia, and that pisses off NK .
I suspect NK will kill their families if they refuse to come back, but I’d be completely unsurprised if some fake their deaths and try to disappear.
My money is on NK never sending anyone and this all being political theater. Please. Please please please.
That makes the most sense. NK doesn’t stand to gain much, but they haven’t got much to lose
Then it’d just be NK sending a bunch of soldiers who get to emigrate to Ukraine.
Ain’t this a good thing the more fudder sent to the front lines the high chance NK will have less capable soldiers in their country. Unless people being sent to front lines were potential issues in NK. I bet US intelligence would be interested on seeing how NK soldiers operates in actual combat.
Does north korea have actually good military power? I’ve seen their parades here and there, but does anyone know if they have updated equipment, trained military personnel, good intelligence, etc?
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Military is the only thing they have. It might not be the most modern, but they have more artilery shells than any other country. Other stockpiles are huge AF as well. Almost 4% of their population are in active military service and 2% more are reservists. In terms of head count, they have almost as many active personel as Russia while having a fraction of population. Plenty of disposable meat!
It’s all smoke and mirrors, the majority of their stockpiles would be bordering on defunct. Modern equipment they have is far and few between, their training is subpar.
Plenty of disposable meat is certainly correct though!
You may be right. We just saw how Russia performed in the war in Ukraine despite the prior years of flexing lol. It’s not impossible to believe that the North Korean military is the same.
Agreed that they have a pretty big military in terms of raw numbers. I’m not going to discuss quality because the biggest question mark here is force projection.
How are they planning on sending over any significant manpower and supplies across 2800km?
They don’t even have a navy capable of circumnavigating the korean peninsula, much less make the trip to Ukraine or the wrong side of Russia.
They have 2 transport aircraft, the bigger of the 2 has a max passenger capacity of 44 pax. Neither of those have the range to get near Ukraine when flying fully fueled, nevermind if it were fully loaded.
There is rail and I’m pretty sure Russia still has plenty of cargo/transport planes that would be capable.
How are they planning on sending over any significant manpower and supplies across 2800km?
Rail? They border Russia and there’s a railroad over the border
I didn’t know this, damn, that’s moving a lot of troops across a length of ~8.000 km in rail
Kim Jong Un has a pretty cool train also to use the rail
They have massive amount of soldiers and are good and making artillery and missiles. It is a big black box however since they haven’t been engaged in a conflict recently so all their troops lack experience.
Their economy is practically built for conflict so it shouldn’t be taken lightly.
Yeah, I don’t think numbers is everything, lacking experience or leadership can tip the balance against you in a blink
True, but we’ve already seen from Russia what sheer numbers can do, even under-equipped and untrained.
Yeah, I have a feeling that they will have very low morale because of lack of motivating factors. Desertion might also become a massive problem since this is one of the few ways to get out of the DPRK.
Few will desert as their families back home will pay the price for that.
It is a big black box however since they haven’t been engaged in a conflict recently so all their troops lack experience.
They’ve been deployed to Syria since at least 2019 and assisted Hezbollah in its tunnel networks going back decades.
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That’s gross.
Psst, your mask is slipping
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You realize these are real people, war is so sad and you are comparing it to Christmas :(
We aint the ones sending them to their deaths, its a waste of human life but one we cant do jackshit about without escalating which most folks dont want. So that leaves us with only a handful of options all with the same end result, fuck all. Id rather laugh than feel sick to the stomach with rage.
Who let NonCredibleDefense out of their cage? Goddamnit now we need a clean up crew.
