No one expects a state official to mention the fucking Inquisition to defend their own crimes against humanity.
Ikr! Pretty sure its a reference to the Spanish Inquisition’s expulsion of Jewish people in the 1490s.
In other words it’s not just super random whataboutism, it’s also a dogwhistle to the “chosen people versus antisemitic rest of the world” narrative that Netanyahu et al use to drum up support from their base.
Funny. The Inquisition came after the Muslim rulers were driven out of Spain. Before there was a vibrant Jewish life in southern Spain.
Israel’s cries of victimhood were already starting to wear thin when it was focused on the Holocaust. Yes, it was a terrible tragedy, but it’s 80 years ago at this point - very, very few people are left that were directly involved and the circumstances have changed significantly since then. But going back over five hundred years to try to find “gotchas” is just sad and counterproductive.
People are suffering right now and being persecuted right now, and it has nothing to do with the Inquisition or the Nazis.
It’s even more ironic when you know that the PSOE, the current ruling party in Spain, voted in favor of granting Spanish nationality to the descendants of the Sephardic Jews who were expelled by the Inquisition 5 centuries ago and applied for it.
I’m sorry, are you comparing Spain to a religious crusade when you’re literally in the middle of genociding an ethnicity and their religion? You’re fucking insane Israel.
I think they might be remembering that time Spain evicted all the Jews?
Yeah but Israel is a country. It is not representative of all Jews, as much as Netanyahu would like it to be.
Not saying they’re right, just I think that’s what was being referenced.
Bring it on, you fucking genocidal piece of shit!
If you won’t sanction us we’ll do it ourselves - israel.
It’s totally antisemitic if you ask us to stop while we’re genociding!
Israel dismisses any and all criticism, and always complains about medieval history as an ad hominem attack. Turkey complains about Israel killing Turkish civilians? Israel replies something about Turkey mistreating Armenians. German government complains about mistreatment of Palestinians? Call them modern Nazis. Now Spain gets derided as something from nearly 600 years ago.
I mean what else can someone say about Spain?
“You no good, uhh, soccer playing, erm, siesta taking…urm… flamenco…look over there, it’s the Spanish inquisition!”
Franco, and killing bulls for pleasure
The Armenian genocide wasn’t that long ago, it happened during my grandmother’s lifetime, and the current leader of Turkey still denies it was a genocide. But bringing up the Spanish inquisition in 2024 is wack.
Armenian genocide could have happened yesterday, OP was drawing attention to the raging whataboutism that forms a central pillar of Israeli politics.
Yeah, I get that. I just wanted to clarify that it was a lot more recent than the middle ages, especially with how much genocide denial has been attempting to minimize those atrocities lately.
“UK wants to talk about a Healthcare System mere centuries after their mismanaged handling of the Bubonic plague?” - Israel probably
Dear Israel: If everyone is a fascist but you, maybe YOU’RE the fascist?
Change starts at home, Bibi.
Fuck Israel right in the ass with a 2x4.
They have become the very genocidal monster that they were once the victims of.
Fuck Israel.
As a woodworker I am compelled to point out that milled lumber is available in much larger nominal dimensions than 2x4. There’s no need to limit yourself.
6x6 support beam? Something real nice.
What about a 4 inch thick whole trunk bark on slab like they make those ridiculous trendy “river tables” out of?
They have become
Always have been
“They” in this context clearly means “Jews”.
Can we please stop with this shit? This is why the pro-Palestine side of this conflict keeps being branded as antisemites. Because you can’t seem to help yourself but to make arguments where “Israel” and “Jews” are interchangeable terms.
They aren’t. Jews were victims of the Holocaust. Israel was not. If you can’t tell the difference, leave the activism to the people who can.
“They” in this context clearly means “the government of Israel”, which is made up of Jews. It’s not “all Jews” it’s “these specific people in power who are also Jews”. You could use this same bullshit claim to say that criticizing the US government is anti-Christian. No, it’s not.
I’m sorry, the Israeli government was a victim of genocide? When? From whom?
EDIT: Let’s try that on for size, quoting the words I’m criticizing.
[The Israeli government] have become the very genocidal monster that [the Israeli government] was once the victim of.
Makes no fucking sense. Nobody has ever genocided Israelis.
You know that though, because you said:
which is made up of Jews.
Then you have made the target of your hatred quite clear. It’s Jews that you hate.
Sigh. The first “they” is the Israeli government, the second is Jews in general. The first “they” refers to who is committing atrocities, the second is referring to who has been the victim of atrocities historically. It’s either bad faith or obtuse of you to try to interpret it any other way.
I hate the people in the Israeli government who are committing genocide. They happen to be Jews, which means that you would think they’d try to be better based on the history of atrocities being committed against them.
Look, this sentence only makes sense if both “theys” are the same group of people.
It’s really not that hard to avoid blaming Jews for Israel’s war crimes.
You can either acknowledge that this is a bad argument, or you can double down on blaming Jews. What’s it going to be?
Look, this sentence only makes sense if both “theys” are the same group of people.
I’m gonna give you the benefit of the doubt, against my better judgement.
“The Israeli government has become the very genocidal monster that Jews were once the victims of.”
What about this sentence doesn’t make sense to you? And why do you insist on seeing antisemitism in it?
Because the statement, as you present it, is more nuanced that what I usually hear people say. It isn’t the statement I originally responded to either, it’s the rewritten version you’re demanding I respond to, only after you redefined the “theys” to something that isn’t so obvious antisementic. It’s also kinda meaningless to say “The Israeli government has become the very genocidal monster that Jews were once the victims of.” written as it is, it it only serves as an attempt to compare Israel to Nazis, which isn’t off-base, but is also better communicated than this.
My issue is with what people typically mean whey they say this. 99.9% of the time, people are saying “Jews were genocided by Nazis, and now they’re genociding Palestinians”. I understand the sentiment, and why people would jump to this “the oppressed has become the oppressor” rhetoric, but this isn’t an appropriate statement. Jews aren’t attacking Gaza and its people - Israel is.
Sure, the majority of Israel’s leadership is ethnically Jewish, but that’s not a reason to blame Jews for what Israel is doing. There are countless Jews that are not Israeli, do not work for the Israeli state, and do not support what Israel is doing. Directing blame at an entire ethnic group because of what a foreign military is doing is overtly bigoted.
My issue isn’t about you, it is about the consistent anti-Israel rhetoric that fails to separate Israel from the Jewish people. You may consider your criticisms of Israel to be logical and rational, with clarity of target, so it’s probably pretty easy for you to handwaved these things away. But Jews know when people are talking about them, and the original comment I responded to was blaming Jews for what Israel is doing to Gaza.
Just because I’m anti-Israel doesn’t mean I’m turning a blind eye to Jew-hate. Downvote me all you want, downvotes aren’t anonymous here, and Antisemites deserve to be on a list when they make clear what they stand for.
Instead of countering my argument, you are engaging in pedantry. You know exactly what I meant.
But for the pedants, I’ll rephrase my original statement:
FUCK ISRAEL RIGHT IN THE ASS WITH A 2x4.
The Israeli government, themselves descendants of survivors of one of the most horrific genocidal events in human history, have chosen to become perpetrators of genocide.
FUCK ISRAEL.
I know exactly what I said. I said Israel, as in the state of.
As a state is composed of the members of its government, I used the plural pronoun “they.”
Get off of your horse.
Okay, so what group committed genocide against Israel? If that’s what the “they” means, who was it?
Because the Holocaust ended 3 years before Israel existed, so unless the “they” is “Jews”, I wanna know what genocide you were referring to.
See my reply later in this thread.
Israel was never the Nazis’ victim, Jewish people were. Israel is not equal to Jewish people and this is doing a huge disservice to all the Jewish people around the world fighting against this colonial state.
Yeah, but pretending they don’t happen to be Jewish just undercuts our credibility.
And yet the people who run Israel are all Jewish. So it’s certainly fair to criticize them for committing atrocities like ones that that were done to their people in the past. The Israeli government, not Jews in general.
(Israel \ Non-Jewish Israelis) ⊂ Jews
There, in precise mathematical notation. Yes, that’s actually a tautology, but we all know the Arab Israelis and similar aren’t in the drivers seat of anything.
Wasn’t modern Israel founded by Holocaust Survivors or something? I dunno history I just always heard that…
You need to read a book
Probably
Can we not act like this?
If someone is misinformed then you educate and correct them, not mock them. Especially when the person in question is clearly open minded and willing to learn.
You do that, I’ll do what I think is helping the most
Not really, it was started before the Holocaust, and it involved actual Nazis. See, antisemites are often quite happy with Zionism because they like the idea of an ethnostate that they can ship all the Jews off to. That’s why pre-WWII German Zionists were able to negotiate the Haavara Agreement, which allowed them to transfer their property to Palestine, and allowed 60,000 Jews to migrate there before WWII.
Zionism is an Austrian idea, that the British started to enact after the Ottoman Empire fell in 1917. The United Nations then published their partition plan in 1947 which was followed by the Israel Declaration of Independence in 1948.
Which means yes, technically the founding was done by Holocaust Survivors, but in reality Israels history is not too dissimilar to Colonialism.
To be fair, Jews were also massive victims of empire and colonialism. They were kicked around Europe for centuries since the Greeks and the Romans.
Now, on the fall of the Ottoman Empire all kinds of populations coalesced into nation-states (also, all while kicking out people that did not identify with the new nation - massive population exchanges at the time, millions of dead in forced marches out of a region). Most back to the heartlands of their ancestral lands - so the idea wasn’t far fetched.
Unfortunately, unlike those other populations Jews were in diaspora so long that they had kept little physical connection with that land which was now occupied mostly by Palestinians.
Fun fact: A plan was hatched to allocate a portion of Australia instead
Fun fact: A plan was hatched to allocate a portion of Australia instead
“Shalom, cunt!”
We also have to remember that prior to 1917, in order to get their cooperation, The British and French promised various Arab states land and independence after the fall of the Ottomans. Only to THEN turn around and form the Sykes-Picot agreement divvying up the land amongst themselves. This is where the idea of a Zionist state first began to be discussed and various Arab groups were betrayed to make it happen.
I’m not saying terrorists aren’t evil. But everything in the middle east is the result of “the west” fucking the people over there over for more than a hundred years.
Thanks, that may be what I’m thinking of. Regardless of how Israel started, what they’re doing now is Genocide.
Israel is the last country one would think that would do things like this to other people, considering their history. Its like they want to create validation for bad things people have said about them. Though i hope its same situation as in russia, regular people dont want to do those things but are so apathetic and fear their leaders so much they dont dare to rise up. Though in this situation they are likely also so well misled and manipulated they think they are doing the “right thing”. Eitherway, current israeli leadership should just go, like previous german leadership. I really dont want to think majority of their country supports this.
This shit will likely be one of the catalysts for the next world war, at least it feels that way.
Israel is the last country one would think that would do things like this to other people, considering their history.
Jewish people maybe, but Israel is another story. They’ve been doing exactly this their entire history. From the Nakba of '48 to the invasion of Lebanon in 2018, the Israelis have a long and consistent record of picking fights with their neighbors and using centuries-old atrocities to justify their modern day brutality.
From sterilizing Ethiopian Jews to toppling the Nasser government over the Suez Crisis to conducting continent-wide arms deals for dictators stretching from South Africa to Central Asia, these are bad dudes and always have been.
current israeli leadership should just go, like previous german leadership
Funny thing about the previous German Leadership…
The study, known as the Rosenberg project, examined previously classified documents to gain insight into the era between 1950 and 1973. Researchers found that some 77 percent of senior officials in the Justice Ministry had once identified as Nazis, a portion higher than during the Third Reich, the period between 1933 and 1945 when Adolf Hitler controlled Germany, and much higher than researchers expected.
The group included Nazi-era prosecutor Eduard Dreher, a man who sought the death penalty for petty criminals, and Max Merten, who played a role in deporting Jews from Greece.
While US authorities sought justice by putting 16 lawyers and jurists who played a role in the Nazi regime on trial in 1947, Germany tried one lone prosecutor after establishing the West German Federal Republic in 1949.
Many of those working for the ministry in the post-war years came from backgrounds as lawyers or judges in Nazi Germany, and came to the department to provide legal advice as West Germany rebuilt itself. By coming together and closing ranks, the network of former Nazis not only protected one another from legal prosecution but also bound together to create the nation’s laws.
By coming together and closing ranks, the network of former Nazis not only protected one another from legal prosecution but also bound together to create the nation’s laws.
Exactly like the GOP in the US today.
Fortunately for Germany, their Boomer era people decided “fuck you Nazi scum” and they had a reckoning which saw most of them displaced from government and held liable for their crimes as Nazi.
And now the Boomers in the USA help elect Nazi Republicans to office.
This shit will likely be one of the catalysts for the next world war, at least it feels that way.
“One of the precursors to world war one was the rise of nationalism”
Loos around nervously
Unfortunately, many, many Israelis, even if not the majority, rabidly support what is happening. I can’t remember the exact numbers from the last poll about it, but there is a reason bibi is doing this to maintain power. It absolutely works for a significant portion of his constituency.
So Israel is just one big red state?
This isn’t the funniest bit so far, the funniest bit is that Netanyahu’s is now meeting with Spain’s far-right, the party that attracts real antisemites. Of course, they are truly anti-semitic, as in hating anything recognizably brown enough and not just colozioniolists changing names from Mileikowsky to Netanyahu, so I’m sure they would love a repeat of the Haavara Agreement anyway with a leader they clearly share a lot of values with.
Neo-nazis banded up with zionists to attack US college student encampments. These right-wing zionists wield antisemitism as a shield while they accomplish their zionist agenda and throw in together with whomever is willing to ally with them. They even freely admit it.
In Spain antisemitism is rampant left and right, that’s why the government (Socialist Party) has done this. Make no mistake, this is not solidarity or justice or shit, just a smoke screen so their voters forget about the cost of living, housing, unemployment… and all the hard-to-solve pressing issues they don’t want to do anything about.
But … they do want you to think about it. Spanish politicians talk about that stuff all the time and some party platforms run on it. Spanish Congress is literally voting on housing laws as you comment and there’s heated debate between coalition members on unemployment measures as well. Are you sure they are the ones throwing smoke screens or could the source be closer to home?
Oh they’re talking aren’t they? Of course they are, that’s the only thing they do: bla bla bla and then nothing
I mean, it sounds like you are informed, so you should know that the current government is leading only through a coalition of different parties that are barely a majority, so they have to talk.
The opposition parties don’t mind DoS’ing Spain (just look at the expired Supreme Court that has still to be renewed) just to create unrest. The only opposition who tags along are those that don’t want to see society dragged along for political maneuvering.
it sounds like you are informed
I try to avoid the news as much as I can, for my mental health’s sake, but something permeates
you should know that the current government is leading only through a coalition of different parties that are barely a majority
That’s how it usually goes in Spain
The opposition parties don’t mind DoS’ing Spain (just look at the expired Supreme Court that has still to be renewed) just to create unrest. The only opposition who tags along are those that don’t want to see society dragged along for political maneuvering.
And somehow when the current opposition has been the ruling party they could do all kind of things, fascist things that fucked us all over but they were perfectly able to do as they pleased, but the “left” (this “Socialist” party is a monarchist party!) seems unable to even undo a little of the damage. You do sound well informed, so before you mention the work reform, which was surprisingly good, that I have the unshakable feeling was a mistake on their part. It was meant to NOT pass, but this one fash fucked up his vote and it went through. I don’t think the psoe (and maybe podemos, who knows) wanted that reform, they just thought it would be good pr.
I try to avoid the news as much as I can, for my mental health’s sake, but something permeates
You do like to pretend you know what you are saying for someone who isn’t informed at all.
unemployment
Unemployment levels are at the lowest since 2008.
Which is saying nothing: 12% unemployment, 27% under 25. Do those numbers look good to you?
They look promising, yes.
Such empty threats. I’d love to see them try to attack an European nation, their support in the west would end literally instantly.
their support in the west would end literally instantly.
I don’t know… You might be surprised how far some European countries are willing to go to gobble up zionist dick
Opposing Israel’s military action on a European country would be antisemitic of course.
No chance. An open military attack would be the end of Israel. Spain is a EU and NATO member. Article 5 would be called and accepted by most NATO members. If not the alliance would be over immediately.
Lets assume the US noped out (which they would never do if Israel dared to attack Spain). That would be the end of NATO but Israel would have to deal with the EU. Even Spain by itself could cause some serious damage to Israel. And they wouldn’t be by themselves.
I’m Portuguese, and my country is the historical rival of Spain. An attack on Spain would be like a direct attack on us and most EU members feel the same.
This, of course, is hypothetical. There’s no way Netanyahu would pull such a dumb and unthinkable move.
They’d probably still be allowed into Eurovision though 🙃
And get 12 points from Germany.
Don’t be agitated by the headline.
Here ‘harm’ is meant in a diplomatic way. They put restrictions on the Spanish consulate. It is strong language, but nobody is talking about physical harm (just as Spain hasn’t harmed Israel physically).
From the article:
According to these measures, Israel prohibits the Spanish consulate in Jerusalem from “conducting consular activities or providing consular services to residents of the Palestinian Authority”, although it clarified that the measure does not apply to people with Spanish nationality.
So even their diplomatic retaliation screams Apartheid
So if a Spanish-Palestinian couple wants to sort things out to visit Spain or deal with administrative stuff they can’t. Palestinians who have family in Spain and need to deal with their affairs can’t now.
While it is not physical harm, it has huge psychological implications and many of which are equally terrible. Imagine a family member dies in Spain and you can’t even go to the consulate to arrange for the funeral.
that is the gist of most right wing/nationalist leaders’ speeches. For the better part of the last decade Erdoğan has been doing the same against the EU (and international shadow enemies) to gain votes.
Israel have trouble defeating hamas which is not even the stronger group and they think they could really threaten another country?
It’s probably intentional though, Bibi wants to prolong the conflict to stay in power. It was the main reason he got elected back then after all.
In all honesty, I don’t think Israel has the manpower to completely wipe out Hamas even if they wanted to, unless they kill or expulse all Gazans. Gaza has plenty of places to hide, even moreso nowadays with all the rubble, and they have guaranteed that even the Palestinians who for one reason hated Hamas will now hate the IDF even more.
When Israel declares that they have completely wiped out Hamas in a specific area, then Hamas immediately attacks them back from the zone they had supposedly been wiped out from, it’s difficult to explain it with anything other than incapability, because you’re setting up a situation where your own population is going to distrust what you tell them.
Netanyahu is incredibly lucky to have the US support him no matter what he does.
I don’t think Israel has the manpower to completely wipe out Hamas even if they wanted to, unless they kill or expulse all Gazans.
And if they do that they’ll get the West Bank up in arms.
Adults are just the mean, dumb kids from school only older, and now in charge.
Huh, it’s almost like conscript armies are shit at their job.
I realize that sounds like sarcasm aimed at you, SuddenDownpour, but it isn’t meant that way.
There is no “defeating Hamas” at this point. Even if they kill very single current Hamas fighter, the traumatized children whose world they have just destroyed will grow up in squalor and be full of hate . Their choice is to complete the genocide and wipe out Palestinians completely (the only true final solution), or to accept that they’ll be fighting the same war in 12-15 years.
They don’t have to fight the same war, if they respected the people and helped rebuild after decapitating Netanyahu and consorts.
Weird just a few days earlier they said Spain should look to the time of Muslim rule in southern Spain for atrocities against Jews. Which there weren’t Jewish people and culture prospered under the Muslim rule and then got pogromed when the Christians took back over. Now they refer to exactly that.
It is weird that Israel is hellbent not only on revisionism for its own history, but other peoples history too. Or rather it is pretty straight forward as Israel is a fascist colonial entity and shares its interest in revisionism with the Nazis and other colonial genociders.
and other colonial genociders.
Strange how no one ever seems to mention the United States when talking about colonial genociders considering it’s the OG and role model for that.
Edit:
Hilarious that people who are vehemently anti Israel for being “colonial genociders” would down vote me for bringing up US history.
You people are really fucking stupid.
Edit 2:
Look you stupid fucking dick weeds “OG” doesn’t mean “the first ever in recorded history”
NOT ONE OF YOU IS WILLING TO DISCUSS THE AMERICAN GENOCIDE
HYPOCRITE CUNTS.
How is the US the OG???
Are you serious?
Like really?
Did you learn any history at all?
Here’s a hint, was anyone already living there before it was “the US”?
Edit: bonus question
What happened to them? Hmmmmmmm
Bro… you are so far off that you aren’t even in the same ball field
You’re full of shit
The United States of America was built on the most complete GENOCIDE ever committed.
Do you know what OG means?
It means Original Gangsta, not the first ever Gangsta in recorded history you fucking nitwit.
You know he doesn’t. Honestly I’m surprised he knows where the reply button is.
The US isn’t the original coloniser. Ghengis Khan did a bloody good job 900 years ago. Alexander the Great was Over 2000 years ago. The US is just shy of 250 years old. So how the fuck is the US the OG (Original gangster)…
I guess your history knowledge is pretty pethetic… Either that or you don’t know what the terms you’re using means
You clearly don’t know shit about your own dick.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT GENOCIDE IS YOU FUCKING MORON?
DO YOU?
GO ASK THE FUCKING NAVAJO
Enraging yourself because you don’t have the mental capacity is hilarious. History didn’t start 250 years ago with the US. If you had a proper well-rounded education you might understand that.
I suggest you go read a book within your ability. Try “Spot the dog goes to school”. It.might be a little advanced for you but you can lift the flaps.
I just LOVE how no one wants to talk about the AMERICAN GENOCIDE
just saying “it wasn’t the first you’re dumb lolol”
Fucking ghouls.
Navajo weren’t the original genocide, it also wasn’t one of the biggest, History doesn’t begin when the US was founded.
Albigensian Crusade (Cathar genocide) where they killed 1 000 000 people was back in the year 1209, it is one of the first documented genocides.
OG DOESN’T MEAN THE FIRST IN RECORDED HISTORY YOU FUCKING TWAT.
Gosh I just love how much you ghouls love to downplay the AMERICAN GENOCIDE
hypocrite cunts.
deleted by creator
the OG
lol there were plenty of colonialist genociders before the US. The British empire, the Roman Empire, etc.
Were there any that were as WILDLY SUCCESSFUL in their complete genocide of the aboriginal population?
One has to wonder.
Segregation era US was the literal inspiration for the Nazi regime, and even they thought the “one drop rule” was too extreme.
The United States was too extreme in its racism for Nazi Germany.
You complete lack of knowledge of the British empire is hilarious in the context of a discussion on colonialism.
Gosh! I hadn’t considered that!!!
How fucking stupid are you?
Edit:
Can you name the largest British Colony in the Western Hemisphere and what became of it?
You absolute fucking nonce.
the United States when talking about colonial genociders considering it’s the OG
The OG huh?
What’s OG mean you inveterate cunt?
What came before the US you dense motherfucker?
The Native Tribes you fucking disgusting prick
Which there weren’t Jewish people and culture prospered under the Muslim rule and then got pogromed when the Christians took back over.
It’s incredibly difficult to overstate how damn correct you are.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_age_of_Jewish_culture_in_Spain
7-8 centuries of Muslim rule, and Jews become renowned as artisans and philosophers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Jews_from_Spain
The Catholic kings finish conquering the last bastion of Muslims in Iberia, and immediately next they tell all Muslims and Jews to either convert to Christianity or to flee the peninsula, because they aren’t going to like what’s planned for them next. A very different ruler in Europe welcomed them, however:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire
Basically, the Turks managed to help Constantinople regain some of the economic importance it had gained during the centuries of collapse of the Byzantine Empire because they welcomed Jewish artisans that had been kicked out of Iberia.
Comparing the current ruling party in Spain with the inquisition is specially ironic, if you know that they voted in favor of granting the descendants of the Sephardic Jews expelled by the Inquisition the Spanish nationality if they applied for it, less than 10 years ago.
https://religionnews.com/2014/02/17/sephardic-jews-eager-apply-spanish-citizenship/
If anything, you could argue that this created an Islamophobic or Pro-Jewish double standard, since the descendants of Muslims expelled by the inquisition weren’t granted that right.
