When talking about the best games of all time people generally mention Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Super Mario 64, Halo 3, The Last of Us, Nier Automata, etc. , but dismiss other great games.
What games do you think are unfairly forgotten from this conversation?
Personally I think the original Dead Rising, Fable: The Lost Chapters, Dragon’s Dogma: The Dark Arisen and Lunar: Eternal Blue should be talked as some of the best games of all time. They’re such great and unique games!
Freespace 1 & 2 deserve a mention here. Old games, so smaller in scope than modern games. But I feel they can compete still.
It’s kinda insane how much people dismiss “System Shock.” It’s a serious bedrock of a title, so much of what we take as a given of games was really pioneered by LookingGlass. I think a big chunk of that was due to the gameplay not really holding up to modern times, but hopefully now that Nightdive’s remaster is out, more people can experience it and realize just how much of the game holds up.
Probably a close second is the original “Half-Life”, in terms of really cementing the story-based first person shooter, but I don’t think anyone is going to call Half-Life snubbed.
I loved the first level of System Shock, now that it’s been modernized. Then I got to the second level, and resources were no longer scarce, and it didn’t appear to be shaking up the formula from level to level, so now it feels like Doom with an inventory system rather than the games that took inspiration from System Shock.
Half-Life is still pretty great, but as far as organically teaching the player, it’s far behind even its own sequel. There are a lot of cheap deaths that you just have to save scum your way through. My go-to example is that when Half-Life 1 introduces a sniper enemy, you see a hole in the wall that could look like a sniper’s nest if I told you that they existed in the game and if you squint at it a little bit, so you just get shot in the back. In Half-Life 2, you emerge from Ravenholm, and a combine sniper with a laser sight is clearly trained on some escaping zombies, so that you know that snipers in sniper’s nests are now a thing you’ll have to contend with, and you get to observe it safely once before dealing with them in the game. That kind of thing. 90s PC games seemed to be worse at this than their successors and console games at the time.
One title that comes to mind is Anachronox. A western rpg with a really good story, interesting characters (one of your companions is an entire planet shrinked down to human size), fun humor and a cliffhanger that never got resolved.
I really wish they made a part 2 but I know it will never happen.
It’s an RPG made in the west, but I’ve always heard that it was notable for being a JRPG.
It was a mix of both, the battle system was definitely like a JRPG that’s true.
Come to think of it, I’m not an expert on JRPG’s, so maybe it is? :) What else defines a JRPG?Definitions will vary from person to person, and plenty of games in each camp will represent some but not all of their defining characteristics, but you’ll see some common themes. Historically, I’ve also preferred western RPGs by a wide margin, so that might color some of my definitions below. Also, both of these branches in RPGs had the same starting reference of D&D, and then a multi-decade game of whisper down the lane led to them diverging more and more.
Western RPGs:
- character creation, choosing from classes that you’ll often see represented by other NPCs
- allocating attribute points, both at character creation and as you level up, that govern other things about your character
- generally flatter power progression (you might do hundreds more damage at the end of the game than you do at the beginning, but not hundreds of thousands more damage)
- in attempts to recreate the tabletop experience, will often times allow for outside-the-box solutions to problems besides combat as well as choices that affect the world state
JRPGs:
- usually a finite cast of characters that level up more or less only in one way, but you might have a secondary system for them to customize with equipment beyond weapons and armor
- combat usually doesn’t involve positioning on something like a tactical map but rather a line of combatants on each side of the screen
- magic and abilities are more often limited by a magic points resource instead of a rest system
- dialogue with NPCs tends to be more limited in choices, telling a more linear narrative
I’ll be honest, trying to differentiate these two with a list of bullet points was harder than I thought it would be to articulate. I’m almost more inclined to just say “I know it when I see it”, haha. But for some points of reference, I’d say Baldur’s Gate 3, Pillars of Eternity, and The Witcher 3 are western RPGs; Final Fantasy VII, Persona 5, and Pokemon are JRPGs; Sea of Stars is a JRPG that isn’t made by a Japanese developer; and while also an action game, Dark Souls is closer to being a western RPG than a JRPG.
I think of it as a branching development becoming different design sensibilities. CRPGs influenced the game Dragon Quest, but JRPGS after DQ were influenced specifically by DQ and the games inspired from it such as the original Final Fantasy. CRPGS, MUDS, Dnd games, and Ultima became the basis for the Western sensibility which initially developed separately from the Dragon Quest branch (although there is still some crossover). This being the case, nowadays each region can make either Western RPGS or JRPGS because we all have pretty easy access to a lot of each others’ games and developers can make the games they prefer to make influenced by what they like regardless of its origin.
Undertale is a JRPG from the West. The maker of the game began making Rom hacks for Earthbound, a JRPG, and used the skills they learned doing that do create their own game. Dragon Quest>Earthbound>Undertale is pure JRPG. Other examples I can think of are messier, but that’s kind of the point.
When you put it like that I suppose Anachronox is definitely more of a JRPG. Either way, it’s a really good game :)
Thank you for your thorough explanation!
Portal, Minecraft, Stardew Valley are just some you haven’t mentioned.
SDV hardly gets snubbed as one of the best games of all time. It’s constantly in the top sellers. I say this as a loving fan.
There’s a whole generation of players now who never got to experience Soul Reaver. Brilliant writing by Amy Henning, amazing voice cast.
People lauding Lords of the Fallen dual world forgot that Soul Reaver did it first.
At this point the closest thing would be a Zelda/ Dark Souls hybrid which we haven’t seen?
I was thinking Soul Reaver too! I think the problem is that it had a handful of mediocre sequels that made people eventually lose interest in the series. But the original game was one of the best on the PS1. I loved the whole improvised combat mechanic where you have to use anything around you in the environment that could hit the vampires’ weakneses.
Soul reaver is on my short list of potential games to start next. (It’s up against Half Life and Silent Hill). I went through the first blood omen about a year ago and loved it.
I think Soul Reaver 2 was the peak of the series for me. When Kain had his monologue during the climax about flipping a coin enough times that one day it lands on its side, jesus. I get goosebumps just remembering it.
flipping a coin enough times that one day it lands on its side
There was a twilight zone episode based on this premise too!
Pirate Trainer & Uru: Ages Beyond Myst
I remember trying Pirate Trainer in a Nvidia game booth when VR was new. It was incredible, years later I get a VR headset and its the free game. I don’t understand how no one has improved upon it.
Uru was the first puzzle game I thought struck a good balance between physical and mental puzzles. They were set at a level that felt challenging but not impossible and laid out so you alternated really nicely. Myst Online actually went backwards in this
I tried pirate trainer in a VR demo booth at a con and lost 2 hours thinking it has been 20 minutes!
Don’t get me wrong, I also like TotK and BG3 and just replayed Outer Worlds (Fallout in spaaaace) and love me some “mainstream” games. But I think people unfairly exclude many genres when making these sorts of lists. E.g.: The Sims, Civ5, Minecraft, Pokemon, and many others that sold like hotcakes and have been extremely good games.
Personally, I’m always biased towards 4X, RTS, and similar, and find it strange they’re always overlooked. Europa Universalis 4 is ten years old and still getting DLC and updates – how many people must have played that game over ten years for the studio to justify that continued investment?
Strategy games are never featured outside maybe a grudging nod to StarCraft or Warcraft 3. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a list that mentions a 4X, a sim, or a non-Blizzard RTS. The closest you’ll usually see is someone listing Black & White.
Game journalists have to bounce between games as a job, so it sort of makes sense that the majority of them go for linear, shorter RPGs, and thus over-fixate on them.
I think the actual reason is that they only have a limited presence on consoles, which is what the majority of the English-speaking discourse on games is focused on. The genre also fizzled out in the early 2000s, which doesn’t help.
Even on PC-focused publications like PCG, this same trend holds true.
And RTS may have fizzled out, but strategy did not. XCOM2, Stellaris, Crusader Kings, etc, all big recent-ish games.
Sins of a Solar Empire is one of my all time favorites.
It’s hard to understate the effect Minecraft has had on me.
It got me into programming and modding games. It is such a treasure to me.
It just occurred to me that Death Really (1995) would deserve to be talked about as well, it’s just an incredible little game.
I feel like these conversations get dominated by games with the fewest explicit flaws rather than the ones that have the most to offer but it’s my firm belief that no piece of art can be truly great which is not also kind of annoying. Not because annoyingness is inherent to greatness but because greatness and annoyingness are both the products of an underlying willingness to take creative risks.
So in that spirit, my answer is Steambot Chronicles.
Best game of all time. I play it every year.
I’ve never heard of it. What makes it so great in your opinion?
Nobody’s ever heard of it; I’ve been singing its praises since 2006, and I’ve never met another person in real life who’s heard of it. It’s an amazing game set in a slightly-steampunk world where cars have only recently been invented, but giant steam-powered mechs were invented around the same time as well. The story’s interesting, but the real fun comes from how much freedom the game gives in how you want to play it:
You can customize your character’s clothes, you can be a good guy, you can be a jerk who charges his friends for every little favor, you can just straight-up be a villain, you can hustle pool, you can play in a band with a bunch of different instruments, each with their own mini game associated with playing them, you can extort or save an orphanage, you can buy and decorate an apartment, then play a dating sim with some of the characters, and that’s all before you factor in the giant mech, which you can customize with a bunch of different pieces and use to fight in a colosseum, explore ruins for treasure, excavate fossils to save a museum, fight giant bosses, transport goods and passengers, and even turn it into an airplane to fly around in.
And that’s all in a PS2 game! Sure, all of the features are limited by both the hardware and the inclusion of so many other features, but they’re all fun, and the graphics look great. I rarely play any game more than once, and I’ve played this game well over a dozen times. It’s helped by the different endings depending on how you play your character, but even the parts that are the same between playthroughs are still fun every time. It’s my favorite game of all time by a huge margin.
That does sound very interesting. I will definitely check it out. Thanks for writing this lengthy reply!
Where are my Outer Wilds boys at?
Not a boy but I’m fucking HERE for Outer Wilds. And TUNIC, in the same vein.
Always ready to bump my favorite game of all time, but honestly I feel this is quite a popular opinion (compared to some of the games in OP’s list that are really overlooked on these discussions of best games ever).
But still, what an incredible experience, the OST for outer Wilds was my fourth most listened to on last year’s Spotify Wrapped :)
Thanks for reminding me!
Yeah, it may not be as popular as Mario or Zelda, but I wouldn’t say it’s “unfairly forgotten”. People who have played the game tend to be pretty vocal about it. And justifiably so, I’ve never had a comparable experience in another game. I wish I could forget about it and play it again.
For the people who do find out about it and it hooks them enough sure, it’s not really forgotten or underrated. But I still think it’s kinda obscure / not well known?
I’m not sure how this compares to Spotify but I still feel pretty good about this one
I started playing the Outer Worlds thinking I had simply misheard the name Outer Wilds and found myself very confused but still kept trudging on. Thank you for bringing some sanity into my life; Wilds seems like the game I wanted to play the whole time, not Worlds. I’ll see how chaotic I can fuck out Worlds before I ditch it for Wilds.
Dwarf Fortress deserves a mention for sheer audacity and scope.
Plants vs Zombies on PC.
Great, unique, iconic, still fun to play. Its biggest achievement: I have brought a lot of people into the hobby by making them play this as their first video game and there wasn’t a single one not having fun. Tower defense is as a whole an underrated genre if we talk about the best games of all time. It also is a game that offers achievements that add a lot to the gameplay by challenging you to change your tactics.
They of course had to make the second one mobile only and on top ruin it with microtransactions. :( Greed is why we can’t have nice things.
IMO, it’s hard to claim best game of all time unless it ages well, and not just some unique gimmick the game provided at the time.
Ie, I don’t like Tetris but for sure it is one of the best game of all time.
However, if what you mean is good games that somewhat get outshined by others or lacks media attentions, then I agree. There are plenty of other games, and I think people would have bias toward their favorite genre/type.
“Best” and “most important” are also two very different things. Like tetris, pong, doom and some other trail blazers might not be the kind of long-term engaging many people would think of when coming up with best games. But their impact and long term effects on the tech, the market or design of games is impossible to ignore.
that’s why I argue you can’t put “best” and “all time” together. If the title says “best game of their time but got snubbed by medias” then I might have a couple of my own to provide as example.
Yeah exactly, I agree
Morrowind and Oblivion both have a massive fan following but I think always get unfairly overlooked for Skyrim.
I agree, Skyrim was a huge disappointment for me.
After Fallout 3, each Bethesda release was less ambitious than the last. Oblivion tried to do tons of stuff and ended up as a beautiful and memorable total mess (It’s my personal favorite). Fallout 3 was a bold new direction and a more stable but fudamentally compromised experience. Skyrim established the trend of scaling back and making what’s left more consistent, simple, and flashy. Fallout 4 was the last major fan outcry from those who believed Bethesda could have done better while Starfield is a confirmation that everyone’s worst fears about Bethesda are true.
It’s truly you! The hero of Kvatch!
I can tell dozens of stories of buggy hilarious moments in oblivion stories that are memorable and unique. All I remember from vanilla skyrim are the official plots everyone went through. It was just as buggy just charmless.
Too true. Being able to jump over buildings was the basis for many of my old Oblivion shenanigans. You can’t really get weird with the Skyrim options without modding.
I would return 5 Skyrim remakes for just 1 remake of oblivion or Morrowing. Does a great disservice that those games a regulated to past consoles.
There are some amazing fan projects though:
- While it isn’t a remake, OpenMW improves upon the original game’s graphics - it does not change textures or models though, just rendering features.
- Skywind is a remake though - it uses the engine of Skyrim to recreate Morrowind.
- Skyblivion is the same idea, but with Oblivion.
OpenMW may as well be a remake, it runs very well and updates everything for modern hardware. Thats probably the way to go if you want to play Morrowind today.
I’m not sure I would trust modern Bethesda to remake Morrowind.
Gotta agree, they haven’t inspired confidence lately, I was expecting redfall & starfield to be groundbreaking games that I would want to play for years, sadly no. It makes me concerned for elder scrolls 6
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MS Solitaire, Space Pinball, and Minesweeper come to mind. They were not my favorites, but I know a few people who have a few hundred hours on one or more of those.
For me it’s C&C Generals Zero Hour. I have had a copy since it released in 2003, it still works, and I still play it in single player mode at least once a week. It’s great because it does not require a huge time commitment and campaign missions take about an hour or less to complete. To me it’s one of the best RTS style games out there. My second favorite? C&C Red Alert 2 and Yuri’s Revenge.
I have also very much enjoyed the Assassin’s Creed series up to AC Odyssey.
Adding my Voice for Zero Hour. Excellent game. the multiplayer, skirmish and campaign modes all have something to offer.
It’s crying out for a proper remake. Just a modern patch. Don’t change anything, just make it work easier, especially the networking
Seconding the other response. This page should have everything you need to get the game into an optimal, playable state. Like a breath of fresh air when I launched it again. Brilliant work by those involved in the fixes.
I’m assuming you are already familiar with GenPatcher?
