Only one in 10 feel leaving the EU has helped their finances, while just 9% say it has benefited the NHS, despite £350m a week pledge according to new poll
A clear majority of the British public now believes Brexit has been bad for the UK economy, has driven up prices in shops, and has hampered government attempts to control immigration, according to a poll by Opinium to mark the third anniversary of the UK leaving the EU single market and customs union.
The survey of more than 2,000 UK voters also finds strikingly low numbers of people who believe that Brexit has benefited them or the country.
Just one in 10 believe leaving the EU has helped their personal financial situation, against 35% who say it has been bad for their finances, while just 9% say it has been good for the NHS, against 47% who say it has had a negative effect.
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It sounds like cooperation works better than unnecessary contention. Who would have guessed.
The ruling class, which is why they fight cooperation among workers.
No shit, Sherlock.
Hey UK, Come back into the safety of EU’s warm bosom.
But in more equal terms, not with all the special exemptions that were present under the previous terms.
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The UK can apply and get in line like the others, which should be long enough for UK laws to be EU-compliant, no special treatment.
Scotland should secede and apply first, though.
I don’t understand this argument re Scotland. Brexit was a disaster for a country which had been a member with a trading block for a few decades and which only had some regulatory compliance laws on its own books to amend.
Scotland has been fully integrated into the UK economy, political system, and legal system, etc for hundreds of years. It would be many many times more painful and damaging for them to leave, and joining the EU after who knows how many years of sitting up there isolated wouldn’t make up for what Scotland would lose by leaving the UK.
We should be arguing for more cooperation and bigger unions, not smaller ones. Further devolved powers, a better system for representation of the nations in parliament, kicking out the Tories and bringing in more beneficial policies for the UK, etc should be the priority imo. Not even more -exits.
I’m not an expert on foreign affairs, but from what I understand, UK got kind of a sweetheart deal to be included in EU originally.
I doubt very seriously they will get such a sweet heart deal next time, since they are proven an unreliable and fickle partner… and thats on the pretense they are allowed back in at all.
They would absolutely get allowed back. They were one of the most important economic and military powers in the EU.
But you are absolutely right in the whole “deal” thing. No pound, yes Schengen, no national exceptions, no fishing great deals and of course, EU military is a must. No more veto to the joint military for sure.
After that is clear, they would be allowed back for sure. Maybe they can keep the password as a gesture.
I got downvoted hard for saying this before, but while I don’t think the UK would get all of it’s benefits back, I think that they would get to retain some privileges - at the cost of others.
It’s not because the UK is great or anything. The sole reason I believe the EU would welcome back the UK with open arms is to keep the UK as a friendly example of how badly your economy can fuck up after leaving. History shows that you don’t kick someone when they’re down, you bring them back, and form them into a useful ally.
IMO, the same deal wouldn’t make sense anyway, because the UK is far weaker than they were previously. Let the UK keep the pound, but lose any special veto rights they once had.
It would be fair if they had no special exceptions, but it would be a large failure by negotiators if they proposed that. A few exceptions as a show of graciousness would go a long way, and probably do more to thwart any other brexit mentalities than being strict would.
I understand that the pound would be an absolute moral need for the UK, but for me It would be the first thing that would be demanded to drop. A UK in eurozone would be key to the strength of the Euro.
If the UK is smart the fighting ring would be the London City privileges. That’s where money is.
But ultimately I do agree that they would keep some small things but to the eyes of the other members, they must be “punished” in all the other important areas just to keep the flock together.
Just to clarify for anyone reading: these are opinions, not facts.
The requirement to adopt the euro is not something that can be forced. You can agree to do it eventually when you join, when any country joins, but the EU would never kick a country out of the EU unless they moved to the euro at a specific time.
The UK will one day rejoin, will agree to one day use the euro and then like many other countries in the EU will never use the euro
That is absolutely correct but you could bend the join requirements to force the adoption even against the euro requirements criteria. You can even talk about skipping the line under some specific requirements.
The EU lets some of the members keep their currency because they are not that important to the gross number. Everyone knows the game they are playing but looks elsewhere. I am sure the Pound was always a problem and you have to consider again that UK never accept the Euro in the first place. I am pretty sure the way can be found to force the pound out and if not, they will be required to at least go the sweden way to keep it at the expense of “cheating”. It is a huge difference in political terms.
During Brexit negotiations it was cristal clear who had the hight ground and the UK had to comply to a lot of their red lines.
I think we were always told it was going to be bad before it got better.
I wasn’t old enough to vote for Brexit at the time (just under the voting age), and I likely would have voted for Remain had I had the chance, though it feels a little unreasonable to judge the outcome of the Brexit decision just yet.
Okay but when should the outcome be judged then? What would it take in the future to decide Brexit had been ultimately successful?
I’m an outsider looking in, but it seems like it’s directly failed in some ways Brexiteers promised success (NHS funding), created a complicated customs situation with Northern Ireland, and done nothing of obvious benefit. For it to be successful in the future something needs to change for the better, and I’m not sure what would.
We are in a more resilient position outside the EU than we were inside of it; we are dictating our own laws, we are becoming more stable by no longer relying on immigration to fill in the gaps of our job market, no longer reliant on foreign aid.
In the short term, of course this is painful. It’s withdrawal symptoms. In the long-term, it means that the UK will stick around for longer, regardless of whatever turmoil our neighbours get into.
Lol no longer relying on immigration. Last year had the highest immigration level ever…
What’s the evidence? Can you point to any similar situation where a country was part of a free trade bloc like the EU only to leave it and doing better outside?
I’m honestly curious. Because if there is no evidence then what you’re describing is more hope and dreams than anything else.
I studied systems theory, I’m just recounting what I know based on how I understand systems work.
pp. 83-5 Thinking in Systems Donella Meadows talks about hierarchy, resilience, etc.
How does that tie in with the aims of brexit? Won’t the four freedoms make the economic system work better? Isn’t that why they exist?
Since it sounds like you don’t have much experience with how conservatives work, here’s a tip:
It’s not going to get better.
I thought I read that outside of London that the average income for the UK is lower than the average Mississippi state resident (poorest state in the US statistically; still has debtor prisons)
Well yeah, they’re literally peasants.
Inb4 some peasant gets mad that I would say that they belong to a rural lower socioeconomic class by birth with less legal rights than their “betters.”
There’s probably tens of thousands of brommys and mancs which earn more than you.
The noble class is known to reward their favorite peasant whore from time to time.
That’s kinda accurate actually.
One of the biggest problems with Britain is that everything is centralized around London while other cities and towns are an afterthought to the government.
London is the only city with an underground railway network. It is also one of only three cities (Newcastle and Glasgow being the others) with any kind of metro transit network. Public transport outside of these three cities is heavily overpriced and monopolized at a local level by a handful of big bus operators, i e. First, Stagecoach, Arriva, Go Ahead.
Another massive problem is that we simply aren’t building new homes because doing so would harm landlord profits. Londoners are moving further out because London is so overpriced.
Things are so bad here that Bristol (the city I live in) is now the second-most expensive city to live in behind the capital. Before that, the idea of us overtaking SE England or even Bath was unthinkable.
What do you mean literally peasants?
It probably makes more sense to use median income. Sometimes a few rich people “raise” everyone’s average income.
Well it certainly sucks for Britain but it is great for the EU. Britain was not making the EU better they were dragging it down.
How so? Honestly asking.
By virtue of having a disproportionately beneficial EU membership agreement, they actually caused friction with later EU members that received the standard agreements later on.
It’s hard to overstate how catastrophic the UK fucked up by leaving the EU. They joined on the bottom floor, had the leverage to negotiate a deal that gave them more benefits, let them keep their currency instead of promising to one day adopt the Euro, and had access to all the immigration controls they needed to deal with the ‘problem’ Tories perceived.
It’s incredible, really. Part of me still can’t believe they tossed all of that away. It’s got to be one of the biggest peacetime geopolitical fuckups ever.
You should go crawling on your knees and beg the EU to take you back, and farage, rees-mogg and boris should pay for the entire thing.
My hot take: the EU is better off without them. Britain has always been a belligerent holier than thou obstacle to progress for the EU, even after they got a sweetheart deal that NO OTHER European nation got offered.
Let them rot on their island while the rest of Europe actually makes progress.
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Yup. If the EU takes them back, it should be with HEAVY scrutiny and no sweetheart deals. You wanna fuck around? Time to find out.
Pretty sure it was already said that if they ever want back, they get treated as any other country trying to get in. No special treatment
First up, make them adopt the Euro.
All the while being pissed off that no, you won’t get all the exceptions you had the last time. And yes, you’ll have to ditch £ for € eventually*.
* there’s a pretty stupid loophole that allows you to postpone adopting Euro indefinitely, though I feel even the fact that officially they’re agreeing to adopt the Euro will be a low blow for the pride of UK people.
That’s like a couple getting married again after a divorce. It HAS happened, but only when both people are lost together in a world of mutual crazy that neither can live outside. I don’t think the EU is participating in the Uk’s fantasy world, so it’ll never happen.
UK had one of the larger militarys in the EU. Only reason I can see them ever considering it.
Aren’t most of the EU also NATO members? I guess I’ve never thought much about the military aspects of the EU.
I think your analogy is not a 1:1 representation of the situation at hand.
Oh? Well, don’t leave us hanging. Why do you think that?
Do you think your analogy is a 1:1 representation of the situation at hand? Lol.
Look. If you’re not prepared to actually discuss and share your ideas, why comment at all? And don’t go putting the burden on me to invalidate the opinion you just dropped, raw, and walked away from.
Do you think everyone on the internet is worth arguing with?
I just asked you a simple yes or no question.
Certainly you’ve proven not to be worth talking to at all.
Nah. The honest truth is that the EU doesn’t care that much about the UK.
It’s much more like someone storming out their local pub and refusing to come back. It’s a big deal to the guy that left, but a much smaller deal to everyone still drinking in the pub.
If the UK stops acting like a dick and pays for their share they’d be eventually welcome back, once it looked like they’d actually learnt their lesson and wouldn’t do it again. The real barriers to rejoining are on the UK side. No one wants to reopen that can of worms.
IF the UK rejoins the EU at any time in the future, we will certainly never have the preferential terms and disproportionate power that we’d originally had. Defacto not as good as a deal. However, STILL much better to be part of the EU than to be circling the drain as we are right now.
Everyone says this, but I think the EU wants Britain back in enough to make some exceptions again. The way I look at it is that it doesn’t hurt to try.
Eh, willing to bet that Germany wants to set a precedent that they, and no one else, like France, can just leave and rejoin on a political far right whim.
I am still furious about Brexit on a personal level. Freedom of movement was amazing. It meant that I could just decide to go live and work in an EU country whenever I wanted. I had previously used this to spend a couple of years in Spain and maybe a year in France. I’d been planning a move to Portugal when Brexit took this away from me. All those opportunities gone because of dumb fuckers who didn’t even realise we had them. Ignorant bigoted wankers. Goes without saying I voted remain. I’d be delighted to rejoin, and if it means we adopt the euro that’s fine with me. It won’t happen for at least a decade though, and at my age that’ll be too late for me.
No, they realised that they had the freedom of movement. The Brexit vote was in part to punish people like you because you still had that freedom.
Want it said that if the UK rejoined then they’d have to go on the Euro?
That isn’t really an issue, either Denmark or Czechia don’t want the Euro but said they’ll get it so they skirm around the ascention criteria a bit. Can’t see why the UK couldn’t do the same.
That isn’t an Issue, jet. But it could be in the long run.
The fact that the EU haven’t taken measures in that matter doesn’t mean it will not do it in the future.
Yeah I get it, but still. Britain got its priviliges in the EU by being a part of it for a long time. If it becomes a problem in some 20 years, Britain probably won’t be alone, will have been a member for a longish time and will most definitely be better off than outside the EU. And if it comes to it, they’ll be able to leave again.
At least they’ll have the most experience in leaving which might make the second time at least a bit more painless.
I’m not an economist, but what I have seen is the decline in the value of Sterling since Brexit as well of the downgrading of the UK credit rating. Even if we adopt the Euro, the value of the same goods will still vary between different countries. However, the same silly arguments will arise again saying that the is EU taking over.
If and when UK is allowed back in, this time they will not be offered all of the opt-outs!
Welcome, Schengen and Euro!
That would be nice for Ireland, we could finally join Schengen which is currently out of the question because of the open border with Northern Ireland.
Maybe it’s finally time for northern island to jump ship
And getting rid of the unfair preferential terms is good for the EU as a whole, because it will reduce resentment in all other current and potential future member nations.
Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely believe Brexit hurt everyone in Europe and I can’t wait to welcome UK back into the Union, but make it on equal terms. It’s a very small silver lining to the whole fiasco. I just hope it doesn’t take too long for UK to find a leader string enough to say “I think we made a mistake, we should reapply”. Make a new referendum while the populace still realizes the connection between Brexit and the current misery before some populist schmuck finds a new scapegoat.
Agree completely. The old arrangements were compromises to get the original deal dome. That was half a century ago and a lot has changed.
To me, I never understood the desire to leave. Even the people who being talking heads for Brexit actively benefitied financially from UKs position in the EU. The choice to leave was roused up on a bunch half truths and bold face lies to scare the the general public of hatining anything south of the channel… Despite getting so much benefit.
Smartest thing they could do is beg their way back into the EU and claw back what ever benefits they had enjoyed like stated above there is no scenario where UK ends up good as they were back in 2016 let alone in a better bargaining position, but they also don’t have to throw away their future prosperity based on stubborn pride.
It’s hysteria.
but they also don’t have to throw away their future prosperity based on stubborn pride.
Lol, but they will.
I think it’s best for the EU if the UK doesn’t have preferential treatment.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
A clear majority of the British public now believes Brexit has been bad for the UK economy, has driven up prices in shops, and has hampered government attempts to control immigration, according to a landmark poll by Opinium to mark the third anniversary of the UK fully leaving the EU single market and customs unions.
The survey of more than 2,000 UK voters also finds strikingly low numbers of people who believe that Brexit has been of benefit to them or the country.
Just one in 10 people (10%) believe leaving the EU has helped their personal financial situation, against 35% who say it has been bad for their finances, while just 9% say it has been good for the NHS against 47% who say it has had a negative effect.
James Crouch, head of policy and public affairs at Opinium, said the perception of Brexit being handled badly and having had negative effects on various aspect of UK life appeared to be spreading: “Public discontent at how Brexit has been handled by the government continues, with perceived failings even in areas previously seen as a potential benefit from leaving the EU.
“Half (51%) of Leave voters now think that Brexit has been bad for the UK’s ability to control immigration, piling even more pressure on an issue the government is vulnerable on.
“This shift in sentiment may be particularly stark among the ‘red wall’ voters who rallied most eagerly to Johnson’s banner four years ago, but have been most exposed to rising bills and collapsing public services since.
The original article contains 691 words, the summary contains 259 words. Saved 63%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
didn’t this pass by referendum not executive action? and doesn’t that mean the people wanted it?
also, if we judge everything by it’s ability to help our finances then we’ll destroy ourselves, our communities, and the planet
if they change their minds, they should have a referendum and re apply to join the EU if it passes. otherwise, this is just noise
No, the referendum was non-binding, it was passed by executive action.
David Cameron, who was against it, and therefore the will of the people, resigned because of this referendum.
It would not be good to pass a referendum and then have its result ignored by executives. What would have been a better outcome? Exercise democracy and then ignore the results??
I’ll say it again. If the people of the UK want change they should do another referendum, see if it passes, and if it does: apply to join.
Yes, it would have been better to take the results of the non-binding referendum, create a study group that would have had sufficient time to prepare an actual exit plan with multiple options, forecasted results for each, and then make a decision whether to exit or not based on the study.
There’s nothing inherently good about putting up something for a vote and proceeding blindly on it, and to put something so fundamental and world changing up for a simple majority vote while swimming in disinformation and ignorance was beyond stupid.
I think that the key part is that the government tried to come up with a Brexit plan on their own but couldn’t. They even started negotiating with the EU before they knew what they wanted and could get passed Parliament.
They wasted the best part of a year coming up with a single plan only to get it shot down because it didn’t match what most MPs wanted. It couldn’t because there were ten or twelve different versions of Brexit ranging from leaving in name only to just not even doing a deal with the EU at all.
Had they created a study group to analyse the options and the consequences of each they could have come up with a coherent plan with Parliament so that they’d know what everyone wanted before starting negotiations with the EU.
yes, the people can’t be trusted to make decisions. we must have experts make decisions, with study groups etc, for the people.
That is a strawman because it’s not what I said.
I’ll tell you what. Why don’t you explain why you think a vote makes a decision inherently good? Break down the philosophical case for me, and show me how it leads to optimal outcomes and under which circumstances if such should be applied.
Not the one you were asking, but I agree with them, so might give it a shot!
You know how sometimes you do something stupid and then have to live with the consequences and then next time you don’t make the same mistake?
For example, when you fall off a bike. Or grab the very hot stove. Or when you vote to leave the EU.
If you weren’t allowed to make mistakes, would you learn anything? Would you have learned to ride a bike if you only ever used it with the helping wheels for fear of falling?
Saying that people’s will should not be respected is very far from what democracy is. The will of the people is ultimate in democracy. And in the beginning, people will make mistakes. The only way to stop making mistakes is by practicing further.
you said do a study because of the referendum and make the decision from there.
Who would make that decision after a study if not experts?
why do we need experts if we trust the people?
you’re an enemy of democracy and the free world
But “the people” didn’t decide on the deal because they were only given two choices and the interpretation of “leave” was down to the Government and Parliament.
It would have been much better to get experts together to decide what options there were and how each one affected us and for that information to be made available to everyone so that Parliament could have had a complete view of the various options that Government was considering.
Instead they hid away and came up with a single version of Brexit that got shot down and then they still triggered the leave process anyway.
They should have taken years to come up with a leave plan before triggering the leave process instead of the mess that happened.
Edit: and if this process determined that it really was a shit idea then act on that by either having a second referendum or just deciding that it was a bad idea and not doing it.
Populism = idiocracy
America - “Hold my beer. I’m going in for Trump round 2” lol
Why did the British owner class allow for this to happen? Have there been any big privatisation efforts after Brexit? Did they hope the NHS would crumble?
9% say it has benefited the NHS
Are 9% of the UK shareholders of plantir or something? Cunts!
I don’t understand why it’s a fucking opinion poll when there is actual data to examine.
I don’t understand why it’s a fucking opinion poll when there is actual data to examine.
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Facts don’t always say what you want them too. Options can easily be curated for on the other hand.
Why not both? A well-designed poll can be a very useful gauge of public opinion.
I think that people tend to take just one or two reference points to decide things like this because it’s too complicated to consider them all.
The points that might have led people to believe that the NHS was improved by Brexit are that we were told that leaving the EU gave us the ability to approve and buy the COVID vaccine more quickly and that we did seem to get it more quickly than the EU.
I wish there was a Texit in the US.
