Throw it on the pile with the others. I’ll get to it, probably never.
I want to see it, been looking forward to it, and will when it comes out for home viewing. But if already basically stopped going to theaters before the pandemic except for the biggest films, and the pandemic killed off the last interest I had in any of the disgusting expensive theaters near my home.
And now they’re raising prices for all the services… so we’ll see if when it gets to home viewing it it’s affordable enough to watch or not.
There was a new Marvel movie?
They havent remade the spiderman origin in a few weeks… time for 5 more of those to get in the pipline
Same I only found out when my pirate site placed it there. I’m waiting for hd tho it’s still in cam
Of course, it’s a day in y.
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I saw the movie a few days ago and while I didn’t think it was bad, I’ll admit the script is a mess. Some parts are a little hard to follow or poorly explained. Someone either got a bit lazy with the writing or did a poor job cutting it all together.
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It feels like an editing issue. The film was fast paced and a lot of scenes just ask you to assume that they make sense. In truth they probably do, but they need a little bit of explanation.
Let’s talk Flerkins for example. Early in the film Goose eats some bad guys, teleports to Kamala’s living room, then spits them out. No one really comments on it. No one found it weird. We just defeat the bad guys and move on.
Next Goose spits up some science equipment. We learn that they’ve been missing for a while. They look fine but no one mentions that they still work, or we’re otherwise still preserved.
Finally we have the musical Memory scene. Ignore for a moment the eggs that hatched. Ignoring for a moment it happens when they’ve run out escape pods. We have “kittens”, we’ve established that Flerkins can eat people and they can hold what they’ve eaten for a while. So while the solution makes sense, and on paper they’ve earned the moment, it takes a moment to really put it all together. As a result it feels rushed and instead of just enjoying the scene you’re left wondering if it makes sense.
We’re only talking about cutting a few minutes here and a few minutes there, but it adds up.
Just let it die. Start making original scripts.
But creativity is hard and risky. Can I interest you in a milquetoast film written by committee instead? I promise it was made with almost no planning or preparation and rushed out the door.
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We should break into their bedrooms and whisper Barbie’s box office figures in their ear while they sleep.
They love to blame flops like this on things like feminism, but generally it’s just because Disney has no idea what they are doing anymore after killing off the A-listers and then releasing nothing but wet farts for the last five years.
Not to mention how expensive it is to go to the movies! For us, this has less to do with how medium the marvel movies have been and more that a single ticket is a month of a streaming service and I already cut all our streaming services. If I decide to splurge, it’s going to be on a month of content, not two hours.
Yeah, I feel like Avengers: Endgame was an ending for the MCU. I’m not complaining, because a good story needs to have an ending, but I’m also not motivated to see superhero movies coming out after Endgame (at least not cosmic-scale superhero movies - I’ll always have a soft spot for Peter Parker).
That and they’ve oversaturated the market and made it hard for non fans to keep up. When you have to watch 2 5-8 hour Disney plus shows just to understand who the characters are in the movie (Maria Rambeau and Kamala Khan) then Disney as a company is probably doing something wrong. Comic people might love it but everyday joes not so much.
Yeah it’s like the films are kind of safe cash grabs, but then they also have this barrier to entry. Even as a fan of marvel I couldn’t finish all the mini series because some of them just don’t grab me, and then what?
Yep. In order to understand this film, you have to have watched the Captain Marvel film, the Wandavision TV series and the Ms. Marvel TV series. Meaning this is basically a way to tie you down to Disney+ so you don’t miss out.
They’ve made it hard for even the die hard fans to keep up.
One of the major reasons I never liked comic books was there was always a hundred different storylines going on. That’s now crept into the MCU and it’s just no longer fun to try to keep up with
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I have a rule. You get 3 movies of a thing and then I stop paying attention. Marvel, star wars, fast and furious, I don’t care, 3 of the “same” story and I’m out.
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It was a legitimately awful movie. If you asked chatgpt to make you a superhero movie for teen girls and the plot didn’t matter, this is what it would be. I’m hoping that’s the audience they’re trying to pull into the giant universe, because everyone else is going to be left underwhelmed.
Other diagnostics on The Marvels: 65% male leaning, with 45% men over 25, 22% women over 25 (giving it the best grades at 82%), men under 25 at 20%, and women under 25 at 14%.
https://deadline.com/2023/11/box-office-the-marvels-1235599363/
I think this highlights the issue well. Marvel continues to be popular with primarily men. Disney has tried desperately to attract women by killing off popular male characters and introducing young women. Unfortunately all they’ve achieved is mostly just alienating men. I’ve given up on Marvel entirely.
Marvel fatigue, superhero saturation and the death of cinema.
so dumb there’s literally great superhero and marvel movies coming out lol
Like what?
the two animated Spider-Man films, the newest Spider-Man film, guardians 3, the most recent Batman movie.
Like lol what??
All good choices, you got me
Phase 4 being as long as the entire infinity saga turned the MCU from from a pleasure to a chore for me. The same is true for a lot of people I know.
that’s fine but superhero movies are still probably one of the strongest movie genres that get people to the theater
I mean, a massive chunk of it is that I had no idea it was coming out, likely due to the actor’s strike preventing all sorts of advertising.
Yeah, now all the studios will have is remaking all the movies from 20 years ago.
No, no, and maybe yes.
There is no Marvel fatigue. There is no superhero saturation. What there is, is simply trash. Make a shit superhero movie and the movie will just be shit. It has nothing to do with there being superheroes.
Hollywood doesn’t get it. People don’t seem to get it either. But these phases are just repeating itself. It used to be cowboys. It used to be cops. Then pirates. It used to be sword and sandals.
Cowboy movies are fun. So are pirate movies and superhero movies. If they’re made well!
The moment some execs look at a bunch of numbers and think “Oh, people will pay money to see X”, THAT is when things go wrong. No, people pay to see good movies. And Marvel used to be hype when they made good movies.
I’m feeling pretty fatigued.
That’s what I’ve been telling people. My friends and I would religiously go the theatre nearly every Friday as adults. Pandemic hit and we obviously stopped, but once stuff started opening again, we went to see a couple movies but the quality has drastically dropped. We assumed it’s because we were coming out of the pandemic and stuff had been put on hold. In 2023, that excuse shouldn’t still hold up. Good writing didn’t stop during the pandemic, just production.
Youre mostly right but personally there is definitely superhero fatigue. I used to watch most marvel movies but nowadays the formula is sort of played out.
For me it isn’t superhero fatigue as much as “oh, I’ve seen the same story a dozen times now” and “I don’t even know this superhero, why does he need a Netflix show?” fatigue. The writers seem to run out of ideas and just milk the same formula again and again.
And at the same time you get something like the new animated Spiderman movies which are a dope, super fresh new take that is oozing creativity out of every frame.
they also do some of the shenanigans that made people annoyed back in my comic book days. My brother saw the iron man movies but not the avengers. So he was lost at what was going on with stark in the movie after the avengers. So because he had not seen another movie it made that one bad for him.
Not to mention every tv show thus far has basically been 10 episodes of padding, and 1 or 2 important plot points for future experiences. I won’t watch Echo, but I’ll look at the wiki afterwards to see what I missed. I watched episode 1 of Loki s2 and I’m considering doing the same now that the finale has aired. They’re all unimportant drivel, coasting off the brand name.
I actually really really enjoyed Loki, easily the strongest thing marvel has released recently.
You couldn’t have explained it better, there is still Super Heroes stuff worth it, I like The Boys and Invincible for example.
And The Marvels wasn’t that bad honestly, I liked it more than most recent marvel products lol.
The strike…
They spent $220 million to produce the movie…
It’s almost like people are getting sick of the constant Marvel drip feed of content that’s been going on for years now.
It didn’t help you need to watch hours of TV shows and X previous movies to have a superhero movie make sense.
That’s my point, you have to turn a hobby into a chore so that you can keep up.
It’s the same reason popular game franchises have also failed. 343i messed up the Halo franchise when they started putting plot critical events and information in side media like novels and comic books. The moment you cater to the hardcore fans who have no other interests, you alienate the more common fans that enjoy it but don’t make it their entire personality.
So now if you play Halo 5 you might be confused at what happened to the Didact, you know he survived Halo 4 but where is he? Oh. Right. He got killed in a comic book. Onto the next villain! Cortana took over the AI’s? Holy shit, this is going to fill up the whole next game! Just kidding, that conflict happened off screen and now you’re fighting the banished.
Marvel is doing this with their TV shows.
I remember when they had a big long-arc that was spread intelligently across all of the movies that built up to Endgame. I think they’ve forgotten this.
Phase 4 lost the plot. It’s like they didn’t know what to do after Endgame.
For the plot going forward, you have to see:
Wandavision (Disney+, Blu Ray this month)
Loki Season 1 (Disney+, fresh on Blu Ray)
Spider-Man: No Way Home
Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Madness
Ant-Man: Quantumania
Loki Season 2 (just finished)I think you’ve put your finger on it. The shows didn’t exist prior to Endgame. Now, they’re doing the same nonsense as 90s/early 2000s Marvel where if you wanted to understand everyone in large events (which happened all the time) you really needed to read a bunch of different series.
But, watching a ten episode show is a time committment and there are so many actually worthwhile shows that one can watch…
I think the biggest problem is they keep hamfisting action and comedy where it’s completely unnecessary. If something is worth watching people will find the time.
But they keep making the same mistakes on most of their stuff, like Wandavision was pretty good up until they decided they needed a big fight scene for the climax. Quantimania, Falcon & WS, Captain Marvel were milquetoast. Then you’ve got Thor L&T and Secret Invasion which were handled badly. It was weird to get Sam Raimi back for a one-off but not branching into the supernatural side of Marvel.
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I enjoyed Loki, the overall story was interesting. Season 1 felt better paced, season 2 dragged in some places then rushed other scenes. It’s definitely not like most of the other Marvel stuff so it’s not going to appeal to movie goers, the same can be somewhat said about Wandavision.
Haven’t seen a lot of recap channels, but Movies in Minutes does a decent recap of Wandavision and Loki if you’re only interested in the stuff relevant to upcoming movies and/or events.
I’d recommend watching a recap of Secret Invasion, imo that was poorly done and I feel sorry for Emilia Clarke and Cobie Smulders. Feels like a waste of good talent and plot what they did with Secret Invasion. Secret Invasion could have been a huge reveal and great interweaving throughout movies and shows in phase 2. But the whole story got turned into a generic spy thriller with no depth.
Jonathan Majors has really screwed up any plans they had for the current arc.
True, but that doesn’t fix their quality problem. Loki wasn’t bad but everything else since endgame has been unwatchable to boring and forgettable at best.
Guardians 3 was really good, but they just let Gunn do his thing and it wasn’t just trying to move the general plot along. I wish they had more stuff that was just doing it’s own thing.
I just saw Guardians three the other day finally. Did it feel to you like 20 minutes was missing out of the third act? It just suddenly stopped making linear sense.
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Needs a directors cut. It was really jarring and Warlock made no sense
It’s been a while since I watched it. Could you elaborate a bit?
They completely glossed over how Warlock changed sides n why, and everyone was just running and changing scenes at such a frenetic pace that poorly hid the missing connector scenes. Plus that one all out fight scene and then bang they’re somewhere else for some reason
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It’s something to do.
Endgame sucked too. It was just fanservicr with shit Cgi and interchangeable characters quipping.
I said from release day that Infinity War was the better movie. Endgame is good because it’s the culmination of 10+ years of movies, it wasn’t a good movie on its own. It wasn’t necessarily bad imo, but it was a step down from IW
Yeah even the filler shit up to endgame was questionable, I just assumed they’d stop making them after that. Now you have a TV show to watch as homework so you can understand the movies.
Do people seriously have the time to waste to just watch superhero shit endlessly? There’s only so many ways you can write the same premise.
Marvel has been writing new stories in the genre (what you’re calling “the same premise”) for like 6 times longer than the MCU has been around. And they have more story arcs to deal with than the simplified MCU stuff.
Sure it’s not all great, but I don’t think there’s any shortage of possibilities within the genre.
I don’t go to any of the movies in the theater but I watch a lot of them on my nice big TV at home.
They are a hell of a lot more interesting than the average boring TV show about Cops, Judges, Doctors, and Lawyers. Maybe there should be a superhero that combines all those like Dr Cop Judge, Attorney at Law and Private Investigator for Hire. Judge Dredd wasn’t enough.
I’m a comic fan and I’ve watched all of them, and will continue. The problem people are having is they’re expecting these movies to be like movies instead of comics, but the MCU has been thinking like comics for a long time now. Just like in comics, not every issue is going to be some enormous crossover event with huge stakes and universe-shifting impact. Most comics are character series issues, where the A plot is just some fun excuse for the hero to do cool shit and have a little bit of character growth. Comics are literally soap operas for boys and nerds, and that’s what makes them great. The same applies here. Ya’ll are attempting to compare X-Factor issue #97 to The Death of Captain Marvel, but those were never comparable things and they were never meant to be. If you go in to these films expecting X-Factor issue #97 instead, you might be able to enjoy these films for the non-serious popcorn media they’re meant to be.
This is the disconnect
I want movies, I never liked comic books. Others want comic books and weren’t huge movie fans. Disney hasn’t committed to either and it’s not working.
I know I’ve stopped caring about the MCU entirely since Endgame. I’m really not interested in this comic style storytelling, just like I wasn’t as a kid.
And that’s fine. But why assume all media has to be for you? These are comic films from a comic company; if you weren’t ever into comic books why assume you’d be into these?
Because historically they’ve been for audiences like me, and now that they’re not, they’re wondering where everyone went. I assumed I’d enjoy these because I’ve enjoyed previous marvel movies, but I can’t name a single (marvel) movie since NWH that I’ve enjoyed. It’s been a massive shift in their movies that can’t be ignored.
They weren’t originally this comic book like up until just before endgame (coincidentally when everyone started to think the quality of the content is trending down)
No, they were, it’s just that by the time people got on board we were past the issue cycle and were onto the event cycle, so people got used to the incline and expected that that was going to be how these went: endless incline in excitement. But that was all the Infinity War lead up and climax. Now we’re in the lull leading into the next build-up cycle. We’re back at the Thor through Guardians 1 stage of the cycle, basically.
I really don’t think that’s the case.
Going back to watch any of the Phase 1 movies is such a better experience than any of the Phase 4 or Phase 5 movies. There doesn’t need to be endless excitement, there just needs to be decent writing, and that’s missing from anything new. Nobody cares about any of the new characters.
There’s never been a huge number of flops from marvel with people losing more and more interest in watching them. There’s no clear plan forward, as their planned “Thanos” scale villain has been in hot water irl and will likely not be able to continue to play the character.
I can’t speak to anyone else’s experience, but I personally care about the MCU Shang-Chi, Kate Bishop, Yelena, Monica, Kamala, Moon Knight, hell I even care about Stature (Ant-Man’s daughter) a little bit.
As to the “plan forward,” I dunno man, it seems weird to borrow worry by letting speculative futures impact your opinion on and enjoyment of what’s in front of you. Maybe it’s not for you, that’s okay, but it you think it could be for you, I would suggest maybe trying to focus on what’s on the screen rather than caring about what’s happening behind the screen so much.
I’m not a business analyst; I’m not in the speculating market. I’m a media consumer, so I’m going to choose to judge them on their output, not any of the factors surrounding it or the discourse about it. For me, ignoring all the outside noise, I can only think of about 3 MCU-related properties that I watched and did not enjoy myself while watching. That’s all I’m looking for out of this relationship, so as far as I’m concerned they’re still doing right by me.
me. I’ve been watching most of the movies, a lot of them at the theater. it’s always been entertaining.
And the Loki series has been a blast, both sessions
I am. I recognize that many of them are only okay movies, but they have a very high hit ratio and when they get it right it is amazing. GOTG3 and Spiderman NWH were amazing movies. Honestly even the bad movies are still okay. I have to admit several of the tv shows kind of suck and I hope they stop making them.
I don’t go so therefore nobody does
Have you seen what comic fans will consume over very long time periods, good or bad? It’s almost like there are plenty of marvel fans that still watch even if it’s not Oscar worthy
I haven’t gone to see any movies for a while now. The effort to go to a theatre and all that just feels not worth it. I’d rather wait for the films to be available on something I can watch at home.
I feel like Disney already knew and was expecting this. The original Captain Marvel wasn’t very well received, and they seem to understand now that not everyone wants to consume every piece of MCU media all the time with the new “Spotlight” tag. I expect it’ll get a fast turnaround onto streaming.
Interesting to see the general negative impressions contrasted with the other column here saying how great it is.
I’m still deciding whether to see it in theaters - I’m a huge fan of the Marvel universe and still want more superhero movies. Iman Vellani does a great job with an excellent character, and I loved how the story connected with her culture. Fantastic. However Captain Marvel was pretty much a non-entity and we had no idea who Monica Rambeau will be yet - I hope the movie gave some much needed character development
I am also a huge Marvel fan and I saw it Thursday night in a packed theater. My opinion is that all the pieces of one of the best Marvel movies are there, and just weren’t put together properly. The leads have great chemistry, Iman Vellani is brilliant as always, the main plot point makes for unique and interesting fight scenes, and they let it get goofy in just the right ways (princesses and kittens, that’s all I’m saying.)
But the overall pacing of the entire movie is SO bad. It feels so rushed. None of the fun or poignant things that are legitimately good are allowed to hang around on screen long enough to sink in. There are important plot points that move so fast they leave you wondering what just happened. Which is so disappointing. I was really excited that this might be the one that finally got Marvel out of their pandemic-induced production problems. Instead it’s just another Marvel movie that I’ll only see once.
I felt the same same way. It felt like all of these important parts of the plotline were skipped or got 1 line explanations. A lot of the emotional parts got about 5 to 10 seconds of screen time before moving on to the next part.
Spoiler
Can someone explain how a giant intelligence kept the air and water on a planet from floating away and made sure the sun kept burning?
Yeah that whole thing was glossed over. I don’t think it’s much of a spoiler, but it was the civil war that happened after the Supreme Intelligence was destroyed that decimated the environment. But no explanation how or why that led to the star being too dim. And the thing that was set up as the next big battle at the end of CM1 (destroying the Supreme Intelligence) happened off screen between the movies. It was just so frustrating
It can be very well executed, but that doesn’t change that it’s a movie nobody really asked for. Unless there is demand to see it then it doesn’t matter how well done it is. And endorcements of “it’s actually good despite expectations” doesn’t really generate a lot of excitement either.
What I don’t really like is people telling me I shouldn’t let myself be swayed by critics and should watch it and make up my own mind.
That’s stupid. I’m reading the reviews to decide if I wanna watch it or not. I don’t wanna spend my money and a couple hours of my life to decide if it was worth it if some people whose judgement I’ve trusted in the past tell me it’s gonna be trash.
The “don’t listen to the critics” argument sounds a lot like what I’ve heard for many IMHO terrible DC movies.
Don’t get swayed specifically by critics. I swear most critics in the film and video game industry have the weirdest takes ever, while they should represent an average joe. There have been many movies which have been obliterated by critics, which have been quite popular and fun, as well as many awful movies, which have been praised by critics.
The gap between critics and audiences has never been wider. The Last Jedi had an audience score of 42% on Rotten Tomatoes, while critics scored it 91%. It raises the question: what exactly is the purpose of critics? They used to exist to tell regular people if they’d like movies. That’s clearly no longer their goal. I’ve given up on critic scores entirely. I use IMDB ratings, even though Amazon has been caught deleting negative ratings about The Rings of Power.
Rotten Tomatoes scores are highly suspect now and especially can’t be trusted with Disney properties. The guy who runs it literally used to be a Disney Digital exec.
Theatres are dead. The experience just isn’t as good as home and the prices are disgusting now just like the theatres themselves.
Until I can spend many thousands of dollars on a home theater room it will be an inferior experience to going out. I don’t need to pause to make snacks, or put captions on, or whatever. I’m happy to pay fifteen dollars for the occasional ticket and then fifteen more for eight cents worth of soda and popcorn loaded with salt and butter-flavored-oil because I know theaters don’t see a pock of the ticket money.
I want a comfy recliner, a giant screen, outrageous sound volume, and two hours of uninterrupted movie. The places I usually go to are clean, I’ve never had a problem with rude patrons (the occasional restless child at family movies, sure), and I feel like I get good entertainment for the money. It’s not a weekly thing, maybe monthly.
My local theater is packed almost every night of the week. There were flocks of entire families with kids dressed up in costumes to see both Mario and Barbie. I traveled an hour to see Oppenheimer in proper IMAX and there wasn’t an empty seat in the house. Theaters definitely are not dead.
I have to agree, I hated Avatar 2 (liked the first one) and the theater experience made it 100 times worse. I went with an old friend that I havent seen in years, and a young guy in line behind us kept asking us if we were gay… like literally 20 times, he was completely obsessed with it to the point of harassment. I will NEVER go to a theater again, ever.
If you are a big marvel fan then go see it. It is not a great MCU film but it is also not bad. You will get some good laughs and fight scenes and get some mild emotional moments. I enjoyed it in theaters, but recognize that it is not as good as say GOTG3 or Spiderman NWH.
