Almost 90 bombs were dropped in one region in just 24 hours.
Russia unleashed an unprecedented bombardment in southern Ukraine overnight in what local officials described as a “massive attack” in the conflict which has continued to rage even as the international community’s attention has moved to the war between Israel and Hamas in Gaza.
The Ukrainian Internal Affairs Ministry on Monday morning said Russia dropped at least “87 aerial bombs on populated areas of the Kherson region - the largest number for all time.” At least eight people were also injured in other Russian strikes carried out in the Odessa region further to the west on Sunday night.
Putin sees there’s no consequences for butchering thousands of civilians. Proceeds to do the same.
What makes you think this is his first time? Have you been paying attention at all? Are you somehow oblivious to the thousands of Ukrainian civilians who’ve already been killed by Putin? This selective outrage blows me away. Have you been asleep for the last year and a half? This is the madness of crowds.
Putin has killed fewer civilians in Ukraine in 2.5 years than Netanyahu has in Gaza in 30 days. Israel has shown that there are no costs for him to escalate dramatically as it’s clear the world won’t do anything.
The difference between Putin and Israel is… that Putin “rescued”, relocated, and gave a bunch of children to surrogate families, before bombing their parents.
I mean… that’s “technically” less inhumane, or something?
One day US and EU propaganda claim that Putin and Russia are on a brick of collapse, that the russian army is unable of anything and UA is winning. The next day they’ll cry that the same russian army is 1st or 2nd strongest in the world, that it overpowers UA in all ways possible despite that US and EU help the latter.
And so on back and forth. Yet they claim that they don’t engage in propaganda and misinformation.
russian army is way more professional than th UA one
Never seen a single western article claiming that.
Putin is a master of your mind - he makes you think of him all the time.
Can we please give the armed forces of Ukraine finally airplanes? The offensive is going nowhere if they are not supplied with an edge in combat gear.
3-4 months until planned delivery of F16s
The planes aren’t what’s taking time. The F-16s are either being used for training, which is totally unnecessary as that training takes place in the US, and we have a few hundred of the things pretty much just sitting around, or are on standby to be deployed. The training of the pilots is what’s taking time. I suspect Putin knows he’s about to lose air superiority, and this attack is a demonstration of that. He’s using what little weapons he has left, while he still can.
Nothing the West is willing to provide is going to change the course of the war alone. That ship has sailed, this is back to an attritional war with positional fighting.
The only thing the West can do now is provide LONG term commitments, written in law e.g. locked in funding for 5+ years of arms transfers.
Unfortunately, I don’t know how good the odds are that will happen. I hope it does, but we’ll just have to wait and see.
The ONLY other way for either Russia, or Ukraine, to win, is a new technological development that enables a significant change to the current battlefield dynamics.
This is a fairly simplified analysis, but it does align with the most current assessments provided by both the Ukrainian and Russian military leadership.
Haven’t you seen the pattern:
- Ukraine: Give us [some weapon].
- US/NATO: No, it would mean WW3.
Let some time pass.
- US/NATO: Well, we could send you some [some weapon].
Rinse and repeat.
Unfortunately it’s not that easy.
They have already got a large sum of F16’s, but it takes training of Ukrainian pilots before they can be used in combat.
From what I understand they should be ready to fly in early 2024. That still a long time to go - but you don’t want to lose pilots or planes because of inexperience with that type of airplane.
- Russian: fighting an armed country and fueled by NATO members
- Israel: fighting. I mean BOMBING from their heated offices, civil without shoes and haven’t sleep for 2weeks
Oh and between, Russia has been cut off from SWIFT, assets frozen if not stolen, etc etc… Israel? freepass
You can’t make more cynical, and binary treatment, you can’t
I don’t support Israel, but the Russians attacked unprovoked. They’re not 1:1.
its true, they should both be getting the same, punitive treatment
Russia: fighting to expand their territory because they want a new world order led by them Israel: responding to their most terrifying act of terror ever happened on their land.
Reason matters, and a lot. Russia has no good reason to invade Ukraine, Israel has a very good reason to invade Gaza.
Israel brought the terror on themselves. They are literally committing genocide.
Also, Russia is fighting to maintain it’s black sea port, which NATO interfered with. That territory has always been Russian, and only US propaganda claims otherwise. Want proof? Go look at the board games Diplomacy and Axis and Allies, based on WW1/2 respectively. Both show Crimea as Russia. Or just look at Wikipedia, for this and other easily verifiable facts.
Board games as proof? Crimea was part of the USSR sure ,but it was transferred to Ukraine so it’s no longer part of Russia, nothing to do with Nato, Russia wants to expand and they should get fucked.
Did Russia agree to the transfer to Ukraine? And regardless, that’s clearly not expansion, it’s reclaiming lost territory.
Russia never owned those territories.
That was the USSR, which does not exist anymore.
Russia has no claim to Ukraine, no matter what their propaganda says.
Otherwise Italy should own most of Europe and Africa, since the Roman empire did.
And by your logic, Russia should be confined to the territories of Khanate of Kazan as conquered by Ivan the Terrible.
Russia is the same country as the USSR, minus the parts that left. They are a global superpower, like it or not they get a say in what happens globally. And the idea that a critically important part of a superpower can just be convinced to leave it is insane. What did America do when a large portion of our country (one which also contained all of our access to our southern waters, btw) tried to secede? We went to war with them. Russia is doing the same. Why is it wrong when they do it?
No because it was the USSR and they initiated the transfer, it absolutely is expansion since its not their territory. Reclaiming lost territory is such a terrible way to try and rationalize what Russia is doing. Unreal…
If you go back further you had the Kyiv Rus there and it was Ukrainian plus parts of Russia were too.
Yeah, I mean there’s a reason the region became the USSR for a while, it’s all very interwoven histories. There were times Ukraine was part of Russia, there were times Ukraine wasnt Russia but Crimea was, etc. The important thing is that Russia is clearly entitled to the area that has always been Russian, in some form or another.
The reason the region became the USSR was Russian imperialism and military power.
important thing is that Russia is clearly entitled to the area that has always been Russian, in some form or another.
That’s not at all it. If anything Ukraine has not only the better claim to Crimea but also to some of the western parts of Russia than Russia itself.
Historically speaking.
Well, yes, but nobody is arguing America needs to surrender Hawaii or Alaska (or all of the other 48 states, tbh), even though they were both acquired via imperialism, and more recently than Crimea was. The fact is that Russia, just like America with Alaska/Hawaii, is capable of enforcing it’s ownership claim of the region, and it’s really not that unreasonable a demand to be making that the rest of the world consent to their ownership of it. It’s just the price of peace. America is simply trying to stifle their trade potential by proclaiming that Ukraine, who is not remotely close to a threat to American power, is the legit owner of a highly powerful port.
Kievan Rus was Ukrainian?
The main part of it was on the part that is Ukrainian today, which is why the name is derived from Kyiv.
It was a multi ethnic state though. Russians of course wouldn’t agree, but they are not exactly a reasonable voice on such things.
You left out the part where Israel has been murdering Palestinians and stealing their land for decades, and turned Gaza into an open air prison. That kind of thing pisses people off.
That still doesn’t make any of this right.
Palestine isn’t a country so it’s not their land
Also it was stolen from Israel a thousand years ago so they are just taking it back
Focus on the murdering part it’s bad enough that you don’t need to make up reasons
You missed the part about Israel fighting Arabs and Palestinians for their very existence since 1948. It’s not a simple situation. Whereas Ukraine is simply a megalomaniac trying to expand his power at all cost.
You missed the part where Arabs had been on that land for over a thousand years before the European Allies decided to sent their Jews back “home.”
Also, fuck Putin.
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Agreed.
All I’m saying is no one is innocent here except the civilians being executed at an appalling rate.
Lemmy is just weirdly pro-Hamas and anti-Israel.
Don’t get me wrong, I think what Israel is doing sucks, but what Hamas is doing is equally bad. This is really a both-sides situation.
Israel is killing many, many more Palestinians than Hamas is killing Israelis and it has been this way for decades.
Also, doing wrong when done “in retaliation” is still doing wrong.
Also, doing wrong when done “in retaliation” is still doing wrong.
So… We agree that Israel killing civilians in response to Hamas’s attack is wrong, just as Hamas killing civilians in response to persecution by Israel is wrong?
Yep.
Weird how you misconstrue criticizing Israel’s genocide with support for Hamas tho. Very concerning.
Pro-Palestinians <> pro-Hamas
“not equals”. It’s a matter of taste. Some people prefer != instead. But you get the point. Sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians does not equate to support for Hamas.
I’m sorry what is that symbol supposed to mean besides ‘back and forth forever’?
Not equal
I’ve never seen that before. Where is that convention used?
This is a symbol for “not equal” in computer programming languages. It is used in some languages, such as BASIC and SQL
This is really a both-sides situation.
Hamas isn’t Palestine. Israeli gov isn’t Israel.
When you make simple distinctions like this, things get less complicated.
The impulse in westerners who want to support the Palestinian people against genocide trying to separate them from Hamas comes off to me as deeply condescending and obtuse. The majority of Palestinians support Hamas. And they have every reason to. Not that most of them were alive and old enough to vote for it the last time the Zionists granted them the privilege, but the vote between the PLO and Hamas when it occurred was between a group of collaborators who negotiated away any hope of returning to their homes and a group that -actually fights back against the people who killed your entire extended family-. Of course they support Hamas. Who else do they have to put their hopes into? You? At your keyboard? What’s your suggestion to them?
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In 2005 Gazans had complete control, without a siege over the region. The siege started in 2007. They had their own government and their own freaking autonomy over themselves. That’s just facts, whether they line up with your agenda or not.
The siege started after Hamas, an actual terrorist organization that advocates for deadly jihad over all of Israel, gained power in a violent coup, murdering the existing fatah members.
Not to mention that during the duration of said siege those 2 million had water, food and electricity provided by Israeli tax money, not that it makes the situation amazing for Palestinians. But no, that means that they have drinking water and food (at least when they don’t slaughter 1400 people from the hand that feeds them)
Reply all you like I won’t discuss anything with someone so brainwashed that thinks anyone who doesn’t agree with him is a fucking Nazi.
You’re truly a disgrace to humanity if you compare this to fascists. You’re either extremely ignorant, extremely brainwashed, or just have blind hate towards the west. No matter which of those you are, that’s scummy and oh how much I hope people with actual power in this world aren’t like you.
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Theyre both violating the Geneva Convention…
There’s no valid reason to violate that, that’s the whole point of it.
Actually Israel isn’t technically violating the Geneva Convention. When you co-locate civilian and military targets, the civilian infrastructure loses it’s protections under the Convention.
The occupation of the West Bank is in violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention, article 49. This has been established by the International Court of Justice in a ruling from 2004. Israel’s defense was indeed that the territory is disputed instead of occupied, but it’s the only country that holds this position. Literally the only country in the world.
The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.
Sources: Fourth Geneva Convention, ruling of the International Court of Justice (relevant are paragraphs 90-101)
The West Bank isn’t at war. The Gaza Strip is. That’s the area Israel pulled out of and evicted (some at gunpoint) every Jewish settler; even those who had been there since before the 1948 partition plan. They’ve respected the 1967 borders there with no settlements as a way to prove that pulling back to those borders would lead to peace and not constant terrorism and warfare.
Ok, how does that support your argument that Israel does not violate the Geneva Convention tho?
It doesn’t, he just talked about how the west bank is not relevant to the geneva convention, and his point still stands in Gaza. Civilian and terror infrastructure is intertwined in Gaza, and that’s his argument.
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Lots of other countries manage to fight terrorism without violating the Geneva Convention and killing over 10,000 civilians…
Do you think Israel is just that incompetent they can’t?
If so, how does it make sense to give a government so incompetent literal billions of dollars a year?
But regardless of why the fact is the Geneva Convention is being openly violated. Which is a precedent that hurts literally every human on Earth
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Well, that’s your opinion, and I don’t care much for Bidens opinion either.
Over the decades of his political career, the only times he’s criticized Israels human rights abuses is to tell them it makes it harder for us to give them billions of dollars a year.
He doesn’t care about murdered Palestinian citizens, he just wants to keep the pipeline going so US defense firms get funneled tax payer money.
Do you not know anything about his political history before 2008?
It’s the same reason all American Presidents are “friendly” with Saudia Arabia, also. They have something we want.
Quick question bro but like what’s the ratio of dead Palestinian kids we’re shooting for that’s gonna make em square? Because you can say “we got the bad guy” all ya want, but if you had to bomb a refugee camp 3x to do so, for example, well that brings up some moral qualms for a lot of people.
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Uh… Yes? Multiple multinational treaties are now in place that disallow indiscriminate carpet bombings
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Yes, wtf, bombing civilians is always wrong.
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There is a difference between invading and turning Gaza into a concentration camp.
You’d think the Jews would know better.
Oh right, Gaza the concentration camp where children are forced to work with no pay, women are raped then killed and trains are used to carry people for 3 days without water/food to a gas chamber killing everyone.
Oh oops that was the Holocaust. Silly me, it’s just that the media told me Gazans are experiencing the holocaust so I mixed the two up.
The world watching has never stopped him before.
Lol to the comments saying it is engineered by Iran and Russia.
WHILE ISRAELIS MINISTER ASK THE GOVERNMENT TO NUKE GAZA
AND THE OTHER TO STOP PEOPLE FROM HARVESTING OLIVES IN THE WEST BANK. WHICH SHOULD NOT BE UNDER THERE RULE ANYWAY…
If you allow and support Isreal attack on Gaza Without any form of accountability of War Crimes Based on UN definitions of War Crimes, Russia will do the same…
Oh boy. Anyways, that’s just how the right wingers make themselves look more moderate by incorporating extremist into the mix to act as a lightning rod with their idiotic and completely ultraviolent positions.
Russia has already been doing the same for a year and a half now, you absolute fucking nozzle. WTF is wrong with you people? Have you no fucking decency? Your selective outrage is telling.
and at least, they do that against a sovereign and military state - and West providing ammunition and weapons.
Israeli is really a piece of shit!
What a totally unforeseeable situation.
Buy 2 TVs, so you can watch both human miseries unfold at the same time! Better than anything Hollywood or Bollywood or Nollywood could ever produce! And when you get bored, just vote in another war fueling and genocide financing psychopathic “lesser evil” moron into the office, so you never get bored of human despair and pain.
honestly? America only had as much to do with the Ukraine war as it was giving them the ability to defend themselves.
Just as planned
So he’s… not dead?
Saying goes it is a doppler
Looks like it’s all going according to Putin’s plan.
I’m the last guy to put on a tinfoil hat, but the whole situation seems like it was engineered by Russia to take pressure off their war with the Ukraine.
Given how much Putin spent on Israilian DPI and their other… systems, I don’t see it impossible.
I’d say it’s simpler than that. Russia keeps funding regions it wants destabilized so something bad is always happening at a time good for Russia.
No tinfoil hat, but total Scumbag Putin.
Guy must have a copy of 7 Effective Habits.
Yes, you prefer your James Bond chessmater plan than facts.
Literally no idea what your trying to argue for here. I told the person above me that it doesn’t have to be some crazy conspiracy.
Were you trying to respond to him? Or are you one of those people who thinks Putin is a saint? In both cases, I’m the wrong person to reply that way to. I’m the voice of reason here.
It was a great plan, if so. Russia obviously knew Israel wanted to start completing the genocide, and it wouldnt be beyond belief that Russia got extra rocket supplies into Gaza. It’s not even, like, deceitful, it’s just good planning. The best way to get away with something is to get someone else to do something way worse. And genocide is clearly way worse than Russia reclaiming a historically Russian area.
Take the pressure off to help optics but also to squeeze any western support
Why not the opposite in that case? Why can’t the Ukraine thing be a distraction, if one of these events is a distraction for the other?
There was no real indication for the scope and intensity of the hamas attacks. Based on US and Israeli Intel. There were some kind of warning signs, but nothing pointing to this ferocity. I think fighters got far further than they could dream of, and the severity of the response is a direct reaction to the failure of the isreali army to see and stop the attack. It’s difficult to believe that the kremlin had more and better information to know that an attack would lead to war on the scale we see today. And I’m willing to believe that Russia sees benefits in arming hamas through the lens of geopolitics, they aren’t controlling the actions of hamas in any meaningful way, I certainly don’t believe that.
Putin is just taking advantage and is absolutely never harmed by being seen as some kind of geopolitical mastermind. He isn’t.
More likely an opportune moment for Putin. The Gaza conflict seems to have been primarily stoked by Iran over concerns of growing positive Israel and Saudi Arabia relations
And Russia has been purchasing large amounts of Iranian munitions. It’s not that far fetched for Russia to simply throw some money at Iran to throw a bit less money at Hamas to start some shit
Iran does not now and never has needed Russian money to finance Hamas. This is a much older pre-existing relationship that its had with Hamas for decades. Furthermore, Iran and Hamas, as well as the other Iranian proxies, have a much greater interest than Russia in ensuring that Israel doesn’t normalize relations with the KSA and other Arab nations. Accordingly, while Russia is happy to see this all go down, there’s very little chance that they played any active role in it at all.
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They said that the Hamas attack took at least one year to plan, maybe 18 months. Putin thought he would win the war on Ukraine quickly.
So I have my doubts that this was perfectly orchestrated to take attention away at the right time.
Russia and Iran’s strategy is more likely loosely aligned.
Putin would have steamrolled Ukraine quickly if Trump had been reelected. There’s a reason Russian troops massed on the Ukraine border right at the election. Putin couldn’t back down when Trump lost, and lose face.
He probably could have, haha dumb westerners thought we were going to invade. They’ve trolled before.
They could just have said their special military training exercise was just that, an exercise.
But imagine that, a Russia that isn’t lying.
Presumably he knew there was more than an outside chance the war took over a year. And it could easily have been assisted by Russia while already in the works.
Makes sense, UN can only produce a finite amount of concern, not enough to express it on 2 major conflicts.
UN doing absolutely diddly in two major theaters of conflict rather than just the one.
The UN’s role is to prevent conflict between major powers, not stop all war period. It has done an exemplary job at that, better than any organization in history. There have been no wars between major world powers in the past 75 years. Prior to that, all empires were constantly at each other’s throats.
idk how much of that really is the UN and how much can just be attributed to mutually assured destruction
Good point, but we can understand it as a parallel solution. People deride the UN as a debate society, but that’s the point. Countries yell at each other and get domestic points that way instead of attacking each other.
You don’t understand what the UN is. It’s a common misconception.
The purpose of the UN is to have a diplomatic environment where all can be heard in front of all others. It’s to encourage diplomatic solutions to problems and to defuse conflicts.
The UN doesn’t have any way to do anything, it’s merely a fancy forum. Its members could meet at the UN and decide to do something (although it can be legally complicated) but that’s not on the UN.
The purpose of the UN is to have a diplomatic environment where all can be heard in front of all others.
A dialogue that fails to yield productive policy is mere busy work.
It’s to encourage diplomatic solutions to problems and to defuse conflicts.
Right now we’re having a debate over whether a ceasefire would be antisemitic. That’s not a conversation that behooves diplomatic solutions or defuses conflicts. It just serves to distract public attention while folks in Gaza are exterminated.
We all hope that you’ll graduate into the diplomatic corps of whatever place you’re in and single-handedly solve the world’s problems. Best luck to you.
There’s certain openings. Since the war started, even Biden’s designated state department armies dealer can no longer stomach the job.
At this point, pouring on the bombs (shortly after gloating that the new speaker in congress suits Russia) seems likely to be as much about shifting morale (getting Ukraine to worry that its support from the west will dry up with Kremlin toadies in control of Washington’s purse strings) as it is about on-the-ground strategy or tactics.
It’s not like new Israeli atrocities detracts significantly from the world’s ability to pay attention to the atrocities in Ukraine, but anything that gives Moscow something else to gesture at gives it something to whatabout over, and getting the rest of the world (including nato members and US politicians) to fight amongst themselves (over whether it’s better to back a genocidal ethnostate or the terrorists resisting it) is always a win when the alternative might be for them to unify against your invasion of Ukraine.
Israel dropped 6000 bombs in one week, on an area much smaller… More children have died in the first 25 days of the current Israeli conflict than in a year of the war on Ukraine.
I did not know this was a competition where only one could “win”.
It’s more like a competition where the bystanders lose
I think he doesn’t want Laos to be the most bombed country in the world anymore.
90 bombs is more what was dropped per second there, not per day
Yeah calling 90 bombs ‘record’ is a deep, almost orange hue of piss yellow journalism
Might be record in the context of the Ukraine war not in all human history
