Due to the severity of the situation and the fast flowing news cycle, we have decided to create a general megathread for discussion regarding the conflict.
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Israel is doing a genocide, the us and its puppets are funding or arming the genociders, and Europe is banning protests of the genocide.
Western capitalist hegemony is a fascistic death cult that will destroy us all unless we destroy it first, and every day we don’t millions are condemned to horrific deaths
So far, it was only France that banned pro-Palestinean protests. But the French government is also far right, so it makes sense. Don’t equate their fascism to the rest of Europe, please.
I understand its not about Europe but Switzerland banned several protests in big cities as well.
Really? That honestly surprises me. Also means that I’m not really up-to-date anymore.
Apologies for the German Language, it states several were banned, one in the capitol allowed.
I’m German, so no language barrier. Thanks!
Edit: Holy hell, that poll. 65% support the ban of pro-Palestine demos because it’s “too touchy”. Media did a great job programming the public to think “pro-Palestine” is on par with “pro-Hamas”.
Germany has been one of Israel’s staunchest supporters all throughout the Cold War - despite the fact that Germany’s security services have been festering swamps of nazi-ideology before all the WW2 rubble had been carted away.
The link is to a Swiss newspaper tho, which is why I was surprised.
One of the largest worker unions in Germany (ver.di) proudly and openly proclaims that they stand with Israel and they have been doing that for years. Now why are they doing this instead of focusing on their actual purpose? Senseless activism to avoid being labeled as nazis. In Germany, being a nazi is way worse than supporting a genocide.
Every country in Europe is flirting with overt far-right ideology… as opposed to just nurturing it covertly (which is the normal state of affairs for Europe, it seems).
I really wish I could have a permanent record of everything every liberal has ever said so I could easily demonstrate how full of shit they are in 10 to 20 years when they all collectively deny ever having supported Israel through the Palestinian genocide.
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I’d say, “It’s the Internet”, but these days institutional powers seem to be able to convince even Internet archives to remove shit that’s too inconvenient for them.
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Please walk into the sea.
Isreal is currently perpetrating a genocide against the Palestinian people. Kind of hard to argue they don’t want to when it’s exactly what they’re doing.
To believe this is uncommon sentiment would be naive
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what do you call walling in 2 million people and cutting off food water and fuel then bombing the shit out of the walled enclosure? Israel is doing genocide right now it doesn’t matter if its official or not
Archbishop says Israel warned Gaza hospital three days in a row.
In a press conference, Anglican Archbishop in Jerusalem, Hosam Naoum, said the al-Ahli al-Arabi Baptist Hospital in Gaza was warned on Saturday, Sunday and Monday by the Israeli army to evacuate. It was then bombed on Tuesday.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Archbishop says Israel warned Gaza hospital three days in a row.
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Oh wow. They’re really trying to shove words in his mouth. He confirmed the facts he knew to be true, then whoever is asking the questions is trying to put together a narrative.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
How Israeli PR attempts to control the narrative after an attack.
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Why do Palestinians and Israelites hate each other?
the British took over Palestine from the Ottomans, suppressed decolonization movements, then partitioned it to form Israel. during the formation of the Israeli state, Palestinians were slaughtered and driven out of their homes in an event known as the Nakba - which translates as “The Catastrophe”. since then, there have been a series of wars resulting in the slow but steady encroachment of the Israeli state - look ip maps of the region over the decades - and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. in such an atmosphere, nothing but mutual hate is possible.
The British did not partition Israel. A civil war between Zionist settlers and Palestinian Arabs broke out in the wake of the UN partition plan vote, the British noped out, the Zionists declared independence and fought & won a war against the Arab League.
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Palestinians want freedom and sovereignty, the Israeli government wants the exact opposite, and most Israeli people either support the government or don’t care what happens (particularly because they get
free real estatesettlements out of it).removed by mod
Tl;dr Israel showed up and kicked Palestinians out, Palestinians want their land back. Ensue 80 years of complications
Technically it wasn’t so much Israel as Europe (and the US) but the Zionists definitely made their mark.
Europe (Britain mostly) and the US pushed the newly formed UN to pass a resolution calling for the creation of Israel in 56% of the territory, but the zionist militias actually took almost 75% of the land while destroying entire villages and murdering the existing population. The West continued to support them after that and have been tacitly approving of them taking even more of the land as the decades have gone by. The West is not blameless, but it was very much Israel that did it.
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There was never a place called Palestine outside of the British mandate
And there wasn’t a place called the United States of America until 1776?
Only after ‘67 were these locations earmarked as “Palestinian land”.
Because Israel took over more land that was fully inhabited by the Palestinians (for the second time)
And why, when Egypt and Jordan made peace with Israel, did they renounce any claims to Gaza and the West Bank instead of pushing for Palestinian statehood in those areas? It’s almost as if the Arab world chooses to keep the Palestinians poor and stateless as a means to vilify and discredit Israel…
Assuming you’re arguing in good faith, which is a huge assumption, the answer comes down to negotiating power. Egypt was able to get the entire Sinai peninsula back during these negotiations. Israel never fully gave up the Gaza strip, hence the second part of my tl;dr above: “Palestinians want their land back. Ensue 80 years of complications”
Hey fella: they “showed up” from where, and why?
Why should the people in the Middle East suffer because of what nazi Germany did?
Israel has not even been founded because of the shoah
Why should the people in the Middle East suffer because of what nazi Germany did?
It’s not just the Nazis - it’s the entire west.
There were always Jewish people in the area who were often treated as second class citizens by a Muslim majority, btw.
When the west promised Israel to the Jewish people around the globe and the population already living there, many other Arab/Muslim countries were also already gladly exiling their Jewish population as well.
It wasn’t “just the west”.
With the promise of a state and Zionism as a religious driver they stomped the people already living there, although these people were simultaneously promised their own state called Palestine.
- All around the world
- The zionist movement
Have any other questions?
It’s even simpler
Israel showed up and kicked the Palestinians out, those either unable to or unwilling to leave are now being subject to ethnic cleansing.
Or even simpler: Israel’s sole purpose is to exterminate Palestine.
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Israel also wants to keep the support from the US so they are cleansing slow enough that the US won’t care.
Like when Russia creates it’s breakaway regions as an excuse to take a chunk out of a country. No one cares when they did it to Georgia or when they are doing it to Moldova but with Ukraine they became too visible and got a pretty big backlash. The trick is to not do crimes too visibly.
Also Israel has two means of aquiring citizenship. First is having Jewish ancestry. The second and more problematic is that anyone who converts to Judaism can apply in a slower process that grants them citizenship. People who aquire citizenship can then live there and gain govt benefits that subsidize living cost, in other words, govt sanctioned stealing of Palestinian homes/land. Thats why Palestinians say they often hear settlers with Brooklyn accents. People who live in places like NYC with high costs of living are basically given the option to have much cheaper housing if they convert and forget their morals about theft.
So basically Israel recruits citizens from groups of people who have financial incentives to move there and lack a sense of humanity to turn down “free stuff stolen from destitute opressed people” and thus you build a citizenry who is totally comfortable with this Apartheid/Genocidal bullshit.
There’s more than 2 ways to get Israeli citizenship.
Both of those fall under the “right of return” for Jews.
Non-Jews with permanent residency can become citizens after 3 years if they give up their previous citizenship. Meanwhile, Jews are allowed to be dual citizens. For example, some Druze in the Golan Heights became Israeli citizens that way, particularly due to the Syrian Civil War.
Also, in 1952, Israel passed a citizenship law that gave citizenship to anyone who had been a national of the British mandate in 1948, had registered as an Israeli resident in 1949, and hadn’t left Israel before claiming citizenship. So about 170k Arabs were granted citizenship, while the ~720k who fled or were expelled during the war were excluded, although they expanded eligibility a bit in 1980 to include Arabs who had returned to Israel after the war.
Well Israel is a settler-colonial project propped up by a global military empire who wants a military ally/outpost in the middle east, and that settler-colonial project is ripping people out of their homes to give land to settlers.
Palestinians are the ones getting ripped out of their homes, having legal rights stripped away from them, and ultimately being corralled into what are fenced-in, open air concentration camps as Israel continues expanding its borders. This is what has resulted in conditions like what we see in Gaza, which is currently one of the highest population density places on earth as a result of Palestinians having more and more of their land colonized and the families who weren’t murdered in ethnic cleansing campaigns had to live closer and closer together as they were driven out of their homes. And as more and more people keep getting shoved into smaller and areas of land as Israel closes its borders in more and more via military occupation, Israel uses its control of the land surrounding these settlements to restrict food, medicine, and electricity from getting to Palestinians. Gaza usually only gets 4 hours of electricity every day despite living in an arid climate where not having air conditioning can result in death from heat stroke on particularly hot days. ~95% of the water in Gaza is not safe to drink, so death from starvation and dehydration are both incredibly common. And with extremely limited access to medical resources, very few people live to/past middle age, with the average age in Gaza currently sitting around 19 years old. Living conditions are so bad that suicidality among children is incredibly common, with over half of people under 18 reporting that they have no will to live when surveyed. And when Israel is not expanding its borders and settling more land, it preys on the desperation of the Palestinian people who have had their lives ripped away from them by employing them for cheap labor to make the lives of the settlers more comfortable. Those are the Palestinians who also have citizenship in Israel so that they can work in Israel, but even with citizenship they are second-class citizens without access to most political and legal rights.
Israelis don’t have any particular reason to hate Palestinians, they’re just doing what every settler-colony does and they keep experiencing blowback from the people they are colonizing. All of the propaganda about thousands of years of Holy War over a Holy Land is just a founding mythos used to obscure this colonizer/colonized relationship by pretending that these are two groups on equal standing that are bickering with each other because they just can’t get along.
While many Palestinians do hate the Zionists and vice versa, framing the conflict as between two powers that hate each other for religious reasons or racist reasons or what have you is what leads to such terrible “Two religions fighting again for the billionth time!” analysis.
Israel is a modern colonial state. While most outright colonist countries are no longer around, Israel is the exception. One of the reasons why it’s allowed to be the exception is because it’s a stronghold for American interests in an incredibly important region - whoever controls the world’s oil supply, controls everything that depends on oil, which is a LOT of things. Lately, it’s also increasingly a weapons manufacturer and cybersecurity base - their technologies are tested out on Palestinians as if they are guinea pigs, and then these systems are sold to various countries for use in their own populations. In general, Palestinians today have low qualities of life and the amount of territory they control shrinks by the year as Israel shoves Palestinians out of their homes and puts Israeli settlers in those homes instead. Naturally, the Palestinians are not happy about this at all, but resistance is difficult even when you’re not surrounded on all sides (Gaza has the sea, Israel, and Egypt bordering it, and Egypt is currently sympathetic to the Israeli side due to a coup that put Sisi in power; while the West Bank has Israel and Jordan, and Jordan is also sympathetic to Israel currently).
Palestine wants a state for themselves, which is a fairly reasonable thing to want. Israel absolutely does not want a two-state solution let alone to give Palestine all its land back. The two are therefore at an impasse - there’s a fundamental contradiction here that cannot be solved by some middle of the ground solution. Palestine has attempted on numerous occasions to try and resist, both peacefully and violently - both methods get them killed in the thousands while the West says nothing, because again, it’s extremely important to have Israel in the region as a Western imperialist outpost. Have you ever noticed that the only time the phrase “… has a right to exist”, it’s always in reference to Israel? Few other nations seem to have this “right” in the West’s eyes. Yugoslavia sure didn’t. Neither did the USSR, or for that matter modern-day Russia given the rhetoric going around a year or so ago about how they wanted to subdivide Russia into a dozen oblasts.
There are other powers in the region that are against Israel, with the weaker ones being Syria and Lebanon, while the strongest is Iran. Up until fairly recently, while Hezbollah (a sort of state-within-a-state military force separate from the rest of Lebanon but also integrated into it) has scored a few points on Israel in the past, they were broadly speaking outgunned by Israel. Additionally, Israel has nukes, which made a war to actually overthrow Israel essentially impossible without the risk of nuclear bombs being dropped on Beirut, Damascus, Tehran, etc. This has changed in the last few years, due to a mixture of Israel (and the West broadly speaking) becoming relatively weaker because so much military aid has been sent and destroyed in Ukraine, and Iran and friends becoming stronger. The threat of nuclear annihilation still exists, and it’s one of the major problems still for the anti-Israel resistance, but given Hamas’ victory in Gaza a week ago, there is blood in the water and the sharks are coming.
I hope this all shows that thinking along the lines of “X hates Y and so they’re fighting” obfuscates a lot of what’s actually going on geopolitically. It’s extremely important to say that the fact that Israel is a Jewish state doesn’t mean that they have, according to various right-wing conspiracy theories, some kind of outsized influence over so-and-so countries. Israel does have an influence over various countries because their propaganda department is very active in the West to shut down anti-Zionist (which is unequivocally NOT the same as anti-semitism) viewpoints, and the aforementioned cybersecurity and weapons development programs, but this is a two-way street. The West needs Israel. Israel needs the West. The United States is essentially what has kept Israel alive for the better part of the last century.
This isn’t to say that Zionist and Islamic beliefs have no impact on the calculus here - they have a lot to do with it, in fact - but merely to say that this isn’t just some inherently religious war.
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What you say it’s not wrong, but you completely ignored the unilateral expansion thing. There’s no free territory, for Israel to expand, someone else has to leave.
If the United States starts expanding into Canada, there would be international outrage.
Israeli settlers need to give back the land they stole.
Imagine what a court in your country would decide in this case:
A man breaks into a house, kills some of the residents, and locks the rest in the basement. He then lives there and raises a family in this house. Decades later, his children still live there, and there are still prisoners in the basement, and they are routinely abused. The children obviously know all this.
- Would the court expel the children from the house and give it back to the original owners or their descendants?
- Would the court find the children guilty of crimes?
the land they stole.
Do you consider that all of Israel?
Yes. You can make an argument that some of the land was legally purchased, but even at the time, this was part of a plan of colonization and ethnic cleansing, so it’s essentially property owned by a criminal enterprise or its members. Palestinians also deserve restitution for decades of oppression. So IMHO all property owned by Israel, any Zionist institution, or any Israeli found guilty of taking part in the oppression may be seized.
The vote to create Israel included many countries, but they didn’t let the Palestinians vote. Curuoislu both Inida and Pakistan (who had recently gotten independence from Britain and had a similar psrtiton happen to them) both voted against it.
I dont think an argument that it was legal could be made if they didn’t bother letting the people who were living there vote on it.
Zionist colonisers from Europe forced Palestinians from their land 75 year ago and have continued to inflict death and misery on those that remain.
It goes back a bit further than that, right?
The Jaffa riots, for example, were back in 1921. Palestinians rioted and killed about 50 Jews, and British police killed about 50 Palestinians while trying to restore order.
Jews started buying land and moving to Palestine in the late 1800s.
You mean the world finally allowed the Jewish people to establish a country in their ancestral homeland (which has maintained a Jewish presence in that land for the last 4000 years) and the Arab world continually rejects a partition plan that would allow 2 states for 2 people, instead resorting to terrorism and a repeated call for the extermination of the Jewish people, resulting in Israel having to do what it must to protect its interests and the interests of the Jewish people everywhere.
Let’s not forget - the people referring to themselves as Palestinians could have had a state any number of times in the last century, but it’s not really about that, it’s about killing Jews. If a state is what they wanted, they could have had it by now:
San Remo conference decisions, 1920 League of Nations decisions, 1922 Peel Commission proposal, 1937 UN General Assembly proposal, 1947 Israel’s stretched out hand for peace, 1948 Israel’s offer of fixed official borders, 1949 Israel’s stretched out hand for peace, 1967 Begin/Saadat peace proposal, 1978 Rabin’s contour-for-peace, 1995 Barak/Clinton peace offer, 2000 Sharon’s peace gesture, 2005 Olmert/Bush peace offer, 2008 Netanyahu’s invitation for peace, talks, 2009 Obama/Kerry contour-for peace, 2014
Oh look… a genocide apologist has shown up.
You mean the world finally allowed the Jewish
What do you mean, “the world,” apologist? Antisemitism is purely a western invention - don’t blame the entire world for that which white people did.
Also, don’t pretend that Zionism is (somehow) a Jewish idea - the idea originated in Christian countries that wanted to dump Jewish people in Palestine due to… drumroll, please… the west’s antisemitism.
Do tell, Clyde… which part of the world’s murderous antisemitism is the root cause of the idea of a modern-day Israel even making sense to many Jewish people, eh?
Stop pretending that Christian Zionism doesn’t predate Jewish Zionism - that cat is out of the bag, Clyde.
Israel’s stretched out hand for peace
Oh, look… the genocide apologist is pretending the side that has been engaging in genocide somehow isn’t and that it’s the people experiencing genocide that is the cause of the fucking genocide.
Usually it’s oil. But this time it’s airable land and water.
*arable
It’s an option. An outpost in the Middle East that serves as a vanguard to easily start proxy wars with the oil countries. Then deploy boots on the ground while hiding behind plausible deniability. “We just supported our allies.”
It’s like War on Terror, an excuse for the corporations to get more dollaroos. The problem is not that they are running out, the problem is that others still have some.
Perhaps the ethnic cleansing that started in 1948 had something to do with it.
Hmm, why would Palestinians hate European settlers that stole their land via the imperial edict of Britain? 🙄
“European settlers” in the sense that they hadn’t been in Israel since the Romans kicked them out in '65 for causing too much trouble with all their messiahs and religious zealotry.
2000 years!
They hadn’t ever been in Israel, they were born and raised in Europe by parents that were born and raised in Europe by grandparents that were born and raise in Europe etc. etc. They were Europeans, complete with white skin and European culture and European language.
This wasn’t refugees returning to their home. It was settlers invading nonwhite people’s land and stealing it for themselves.
Yes, the vague equivalent would be for the Native Americans to reclaim the United States via superior force ~1800 years from now.
Not even Native Americans!
It would be the equivalent of people with extremely diluted ancestry and no connection to any tribe, white people who practice a Native religion and speak an extremely deformed English dialect of some Native language but are otherwise just US Americans.
A third of Israelis are (family of) refugees/emigrants from the middle-east or north Africa.
It’s not a ‘white european’ country, which you’d know just looking at them.
Imposing simplistic American notions of race on a complicated conflict is stupid and embarrassing.
Yeah, now. That’s because they imported Jews from everywhere they could to become Israeli. It started as a European settler project.
But if you look at the positions of power, the government and businesses and celebrities, you’ll see mostly white faces. Israel definitely has a white supremacist bent to it - you don’t think an Ethiopian Jew will ever be the prime minister do you?
America’s white majority is going to disappear too, but you don’t think that will actually end American white supremacy right?
It is always interesting seeing a person be so blatantly racist and not realize it.
Jews have had people there pretty much that entire time. Under the Roman empire, under the Byzantine, under Arabs, under the Ottoman empire, under the British empire.
You seem to know very little about the region. The way you speak of race is certainly American. Not sure how you think the Polish, much less Polish Jews, were treated in the past, but I can assure you it wasn’t as a white person.
Further, the Sephardi chief rabbi is middle eastern by any definition (born in Israel, parents born in Iraq). The Ashkenazi chief rabbi is the son of a polish born Holocaust survivor.
There are at least 3.2 Mizrahi Jews in Israel although recent studies suggest around 44% of the population. That means Jews from Israel or the surround middle eastern areas. Are middle easterners white now?
Jews might be considered white in America (sometimes). But what is white in America does not apply to the rest of the world. Even Europe doesn’t share the same attitude, I assure you.
It didn’t start as a European settler project. Europe was in control of the region post WWI so Jews lobbied in Europe and in the US. Many of which were Mizrahi and/or already having lived in mandate Palestine.
I’m sure you don’t even realize what you’re saying is racist, but it is. If a person with black parent(s) can pass as white, are they also white? Is their a paper bag test for Jews too? What about one drop? Are all Africans black? Do you know what an average person from Yemen looks like? Egypt? Why didn’t Polish and German Jews just be pretend not to be Jewish during the Holocaust since they are white?
Since the human population shares at least two common areas that all current humans came from, how many generations must a group of people exist in a place to say they are descendants of that place? If a person is a jew by birth through European heritage, but is blacker than Obama, and moves to Israel are they a white European Jew or a black minority? Is Bashar al-assad white? Viktor Orban? Gabriel Boric?
Please, can you answer those questions?
You still see white faces in high places. That’s why Europe and America are Israel’s greatest supporters - they want an ethnosate in the middle east.
That’s why you aren’t going to ever see an Ethiopian Prime Minister. Now you’re right, race isn’t exactly like it is in the US. It actually reminds me more of colorismo in Latin America, where racial prejudice is based more on how dark your skin is than being clear cut along racial lines. Light skinned Asians get to have this privilege in the racial majority.
But there is a racial component to Israel’s apartheid regime and its unlimited support from Europe and America, and you have to acknowledge this.
Out of interest, would you describe Romani people (pejorative ‘gypsy’) as being white?
If they were given their own settler colony and started being treated as an equal by all the other white countries? Yes.
I wouldn’t consider a European Jew before the formation of Israel to be white, but they’re sure as fuck white now.
I’ll be honest. Most Americans don’t even realize Roma are a real group of people. They hear gypsy and think crystal balls and magic. The population is much smaller and more integrated in the US than in Europe so many have never met someone from that group. But I mean if you want the honest answer, a person that looks white in America is considered white until a reason is given otherwise. Maybe a name. Maybe a symbol. Maybe they say something. My youngest son can pass for white easily. Asheknazi jews are white by current american standards, but I don’t see white southern baptists churches needing armed security during service. And I’m one generation shy of when Jews weren’t allowed in to certain places.
Race is weird in America. And Americans are very touchy about it on both sides. I think it’s because it’s built on a house of cards, but so many fundamental things revolve around it. Racial justice on the left. Umm… other things on the right. Like racism is definitely real. I can make it through police checkpoints without getting stopped, while my wife gets stopped every time. But Americans like to pretend there is some true hard standard when it is all a wobbly social construct.
The only Israeli citizen I know was born in Scottsdale, Arizona.
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2000 years of racism, forced displacement and oppression, capped off with one of the most horrific genocides in the history of the world.
And who is responsible for that, eh? The same “western civilization” that is now using Israel as a kapo state to do it’s dirty work in the middle-east, perhaps?
racism, forced displacement and oppression
HMM WHY DOES THAT SOUND FAMILIAR?!
capped off with one of the most horrific genocides in the history of the world.
History repeats, I guess.
Keep screeching for nuance while Israel bombs evacuation routes and refugee camps with the full throated support of Europe and America.
While I won’t argue in support of the amount of force Israel is using, I am curious what you believe they should do. For this current situation and the whole situation at large.
Return the land they stole and reform the single Palestinian state so they can peacefully coexist within Palestine.
It was their turn to be the boot. /s
It’s almost like you just want to believe Jewish people are bad guys to fit a simpler narrative of what’s happening.
Its almost like you want to collapse all Jews and the settler colonial state of Israel into one group to fit a simpler narrative of what’s happening.
So all of Israel is a colonial state? What should happen with it and it’s over 9 million people? Of which almost half are middle eastern (I’m only including several generations middle eastern here, obviously we have people that are 3 or 4th generation Israeli, but I am not sure what your threshold is for being considered a native of an area). Then another 2.5 percent are beta Israel. So let’s just say half are middle eastern or African. What should happen with this colonial state?
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So all of Israel is a colonial state? Yes.
What should happen with it and it’s over 9 million people? You return proper land ownership and a lot of people will move back to where they’re from when they no longer get preferential treatment and free stuff. It happened in South Africa. If you don’t live on land that was stolen from Palestinians but within Palestinian borders, you live in Palestine now.
Yeah, if we stretch this logic even further down, we all get to claim our ancestral land in Africa from 200 millennia ago.
Yes, all ancestral land claims are ultimately at least a little bit silly.
The Netherlands had better watch out… my ancestors came from there about 300 years ago, and that automatically gives me the right to rape, torture and murder my way through Antwerp!
Anrwerp is Belgium, though ;)
Pshhh… there’s a difference?
Every Russian in Lithuania better pack their bags. I’m tearing up my Pennsylvania birth certificate and returning home! I can’t wait to open the first Primanti Bro’s in Vilnius.
The Jews are the most despicable and contemptible nation to crawl upon the face of the Earth, because they have displayed hostility to Allah.
Allah will kill the Jews in the hell of the world to come, just like they killed the believers in the hell of this world.
-- Atallah Abu Al-Subh, former Hamas minister of culture
Palestine is Islamic, and not an Islamic emirate, from the river to the sea, that unites the Palestinians. Jews have no right in it, with the exception of those who lived on the land of Palestine before World War I.
This is Islam, that was ahead of its time with regards to human rights in the treatment of prisoners, but our nation was tested by the cancerous lump, that is the Jews, in the heart of the Arab nation… Be certain that America is on its way to utter destruction, America is wallowing [in blood] today in Iraq and Afghanistan, America is defeated and Israel is defeated, and was defeated in Lebanon and Palestine… Make us victorious over the community of infidels… Allah, take the Jews and their allies, Allah, take the Americans and their allies… Allah, annihilate them completely and do not leave anyone of them.
--Sheikh Dr. Ahmad Bahar, acting Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council
By God, we will not leave one Jew in Palestine. We will fight them with all the strength we have. This is our land, not the Jews…
-- Abdel Aziz Rantisi, Hamas leader
The Jews: killed the prophets…slaughtered the innocent…imprisoned our pious… NO PEACE WITH THE MURDERERS.
Let everyone know that Hamas… is only against Jews and those twisted in their manner… it realizes the Jews’ methods in trying to cause hostility and friction between people…
We should lend punches to the Jews wherever possible [to commemorate Muhammad’s defeat of one of the Jewish tribes of Arabia].
--Hamas communiqué
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And Israelis hate Palestinians because, in their desperation Palestinians turned to terrorism, also Palestinians are in their way.
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There’s only two teams. The imaginary side you made up in your head doesn’t exist.
It’s Hamas or Israel. Pick one.
Almost a troll-like insistence on lack of nuance to an extremely complex situation
The invocation of nuance is a trick to get you to not take a stance that matters and to stay trapped in your own head cooking up imaginary solutions that can never and will never happen.
The actually nuanced position is to support Hamas despite its flaws, because they’re the only material force that is fighting for Gaza.
The actually nuanced position is to be opposed to the bloodshed and race/religion-based tribalism happening with both the Israeli government AND Hamas, and to do more than just “tut tut” Israel’s recent activities in the West Bank and the virtual prison they’ve turned Gaza into.
The current Israeli government is committed to eradicating Islam from within the borders of Israel. The current Hamas leadership is committed to eradicating Jewish people from the face of the earth and setting up an Islamic state where Israel currently stands.
Despite these two diametrically opposed positions, the majority of Palestinian and Jewish Israelis are secular and just want to live their lives while being afforded basic human rights.
And this goes back further than 80 years; both groups tend to have last names based on bloodlines, and those last names invariably trace themselves back to people living and worshiping on the same physical land, often repeatedly.
The stance that matters is to be vocally opposed to ALL genocide; right now, that means being opposed to the actions of the Israeli government; it also means being opposed to the claimed goals of Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Iranian government.
It also leaves room for celebrating legitimate overtures of peace and the thousands of people of all faiths and ethnic backgrounds who are currently putting their lives at risk to provide food, water and basic medical assistance to all the Israelis/Palestinians currently affected by this battle waged by hardliners and extremists.
The actually nuanced position is to be opposed to the bloodshed and race/religion-based tribalism happening with both the Israeli government AND Hamas, and to do more than just “tut tut” Israel’s recent activities in the West Bank and the virtual prison they’ve turned Gaza into.
Hamas is resisting Zionism, not Jews. They’re pretty explicit about that.
So if you oppose race/religion-based tribalism you support Hamas, because they’re the ones opposing it.
People don’t have to pick one or the other at all. I despise the Israeli government for their genocidal actions. I despise Hamas for terror attacks on innocent civilians.
The Israeli government is disgusting in their actions, and I very much hope for the freedom of the Palestinians, but fuck Hamas. You can support the Palestinians and their plight while condemning the people in charge.
I have support for any Israeli or Palestinian citizen that does not commit or advocate for senseless violence. Fuck the people in power in both places.
By not picking a side you become invisible and irrelevant. If you don’t want to pick a side, just tune out and go play video games or something because it’s basically the same thing.
What a Moronic take. Both sides bad so pick one!
No, stop putting up shit and you’ll get support from non insane people. They’re both being shitbirds, there’s no reason to approve of either behavior
When Palestinians held peaceful marches for freedom, Israel blew their knees out. Pacifism doesn’t work when one side thinks you’re animals.
Also, by choosing to not pick a side, you’re just tacitly siding with the winning side. Which side do your tax dollars go to?
No shit that I am irrelevant to the war in Gaza. I live on the other side of the world and dont have any political power. The most I could do is try to send some money to aid the Palestinian refugees, and I still would be invisible and irrelevant to it. Are you sending money, supplies, armaments, or fighting for Hamas? If not you are invisible and irrelevant to this conflict yourself. Just like 99.999% of the world’s population.
Vocal support matters in democracies. If Western governments stopped supporting Israel this war would be very different.
By not even vocally supporting anything you have taken away your own voice. You’ve silenced yourself.
Can we acknowledge that it’s one of the most complicated geopolitical circumstances in the history of the world?
No, we can’t… because it’s not. It’s only “complicated” due to pro-Israeli propaganda and nothing else - it’s no more “complicated” than Apartheid South Africa was.
The situation is complex, dating back to British involvement with the Belfort Plan in delineating Israel’s territory. In recent years, a cycle fueled by radicals and right-wing hardliners on both sides has intensified.
Don’t get me wrong, the recent casualties result from pure terrorism and Israel has the right to defend itself against terrorism. Israels retaliation on the other hand as we can see will create a human catastrophe affecting everyone. Hopefully both parties will immediately stop and opt for peaceful dialogue.
Most normal people don’t. But the political situation of “we were here first” vs. “This is now the land of Israel” causes whatever you see happening nowadays.
They don’t it’s a bit to keep the west from crowding their tourist spots.
Yeah, these attacks and bombings are just an elaborate stage play to keep out the tourists… 🤦♂️
What’s the matter with you?
There are a few Canadian citizens stuck in Gaza and very much in danger. I’m hoping that some solution can be found to help these people out.
Bro wtf. The millions of people in Gaza are in danger, how does their individual citizenships matter when there is non-descriminative bombing over the urban areas as well as exit routes? Israelis even bombed and killed prisoners from Israel in Gaza
As a Canadian, dude’s probably interested to see how the Canadian government will respond.
I wouldn’t hold my breath. Trudeau isn’t going to step out of line from American policy to save a few measly Canadians, and Biden won’t allow Americans to leave unless Egypt opens their borders to Palestinians (which definitely isn’t going to lead to ethnic cleansing, of course).
Are you trying to say that the Canadian citizens stuck in Gaza are somehow more special than the other citizens?
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Thank you! Sorry ignorant American and I wanted to learn more! I’m not sure why you were down voted so much by the little bit I read.
Yes! At least they are to me as a Canadian citizen. Not more important in human terms, but definitely more of interest to me to see how Canadians in a war zone are dealt with by our government.
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UK Tory MP accuses politicians of being complicit in Israeli war crimes
Sorry for the Reddit link but I couldn’t find an alternative source.
Water runs out at United Nations shelters in Gaza
Israel has cut off the flow of food, medicine, water and electricity to Gaza, pounded neighborhoods with airstrikes and told the estimated 1 million residents of the north to flee south ahead of Israel’s planned attack. The Gaza Health Ministry said more than 2,300 Palestinians have been killed since the fighting erupted last weekend.
U.S. national security adviser Jake Sullivan told CNN on Sunday that Israeli officials told him they had turned the water back on in southern Gaza. But the spokesman for Israel’s energy and water ministry, Adir Dahan, said it was only flowing at a single location in southern Gaza. Aid workers in Gaza said they had not yet seen evidence the water was back and a Gaza government spokesperson said it was not flowing.
Hmm! Why would the US spread Israeli misinformation? It’s a mystery! 🙃
About half a million Gaza residents have taken refuge in U.N. shelters across the territory and are running out of water, said Juliette Touma, a spokesperson for the U.N.’s Palestinian refugee agency, known by the acronym UNRWA. “Gaza is running dry,” she said, adding that U.N. teams have also begun to ration water.
Touma said a quarter of a million people in Gaza moved to shelters over the past 24 hours, the majority of which are U.N. schools where “clean water has actually run out,” said Inas Hamdan, another UNRWA spokeswoman.
Across Gaza, families rationed dwindling water supplies, with many forced to drink dirty or brackish water. Many resorted to going to dirty wells and the sea, increasing the risk of dehydration, water borne diseases and more deaths.
“I am very happy that I was able to brush my teeth today, can you imagine what lengths we have reached?” said Shaima al-Farra, in Khan Younis.
Settlers are sick.
Everyone knows that the UN is a Hamas front. Providing the UN with water is akin to providing Hamas with the heads of babies.
Might want to add a /s tag there or something, poe’s law
The fact that I have to is a condemnation of this community.
Yeah, we are trying to very actively crack down on it but you know how things are with the influx
I’m curious what disinformation you’re talking about given what you quoted? And you implied that it is known, but why do you think said disinformation would be spread?
Also, there are no settlers in Gaza. Haven’t been for around 18 years.
The misinformation is the Zionist lie that they turned the water back on, when actual people on the ground in Gaza are telling us they don’t have water.
Also, everyone living on stolen Palestinian land and benefiting from land theft and apartheid is a settler. From the river to the sea.
To be clear, there’s one lie and then that lie got spun into something pro-Israeli.
Jake Sullivan told CNN on Sunday that Israeli officials told him they had turned the water back on in southern Gaza. But the spokesman for Israel’s energy and water ministry, Adir Dahan, said it was only flowing at a single location in southern Gaza.
Sounds like Jake got told the same lie, and he spun it and omitted the “one location” part. Dahan lied (saying it was on at one location when it wasn’t) and Sullivan made it sound even better by conveniently dropping the “one location” part and implying that water is fully restored.
From Sullivans perspective he may be reporting the “truth”, based upon what he knows/knew at the time, but said it in such a way to imply the Israelis are better than he “knows”.
And my questions on race and who qualifies as white? Because I’m guessing you consider yourself a very anti-racist person. But that shit was racist as fuck.sorry this was a response for a different post.
Egyptian here
Based
Would you care to share with us your perception of the situation from the ground? What are the prevailing feelings you’re seeing in Egypt re: the initial Al-Aqsa flood, the Israeli retaliation, Sisi’s handling of the border crossing?
Sorry man, I don’t even watch the news…
It’s cool, fam. Can’t blame ya, shit is bleak
MSNBC had this doctor on to talk about the horrible situation in Gaza.
3 years ago, MedGlobal was born - MedGlobal
By Dr. Zaher Sahloul, MedGlobal President and Co-Founder
Three years ago, I was in Yemen with three other medical volunteers, providing internal medicine and pediatrics services to people suffering from the effects of war and famine. MedGlobal had just been formed. In between medical consultations, we talked about the goals for the future of our organization, dedicated to providing innovative healthcare to crisis-affected and low-resource areas.
I don’t know anything about him - I copy and pasted that for context.
I was listening to in the background so I don’t know how long the interview was. I think ~7 minutes at least. I noticed something very unusual. Almost zero questions. Stephanie Ruhle was interviewing him. Ruhle isn’t rude but it’s her habit to pepper guests with questions. She always does that. I’ve never seen her be so quiet. Also - MSNBC’s PR shtick is that they ask questions and it makes you smarter. I forget an recent tagline - it was something like “Never stop asking questions”.
It’s the norm that anchors/reporters ask a lot of questions. In one way - the lack of questions was really great. He was highly knowledgeable and informed the audience in stark terms about how awful things are. That’s the first time I’ve seen that on CNN or MSNBC. But the producers must have had him on because even though he didn’t pull punches about the medical situation - they knew he was very politic and he’d avoid “politics”.
The end result was that the agent of the chaos, Israel, hardly came up at all. It was like these horrible unfolding health problems were happening all by themselves due to unknown or poorly understood causes.
Isn’t salty water worse than no water because of the dehydrating effects of salt?
it fucks your liver
It can be an act of physiological and psychological desperation. There’s thousands of years of recorded history of people dying of thirst drinking seawater as a coping mechanism before the end.
I read somewhere that you can survive on salty water as long as you don’t leave it until you are severely dehydrated. You need to let your body adapt.
It was from research on how to survive lost at sea.
Not drinking water at all is a definite death sentence.
Edit: Looking a bit more into this, sea water will also kill you as it does dehydrate because your kidneys will try to deposit excess salt into your urin, but is unable to create urin that is saltier than sea water. You simply start peeing more than you drink.
The question is which option kills you faster?
Salty water will simply kill you faster. If you’re severely dehydrated already and you opt for salty water you will simply destroy your body by extreme osmosis.
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You’re right. Apparently I wasn’t going off a good source.
Yes but see, clearly Hamas is everywhere and that clearly justifies the civilian casualties. Clearly.
If you see a picture of a Palestinian child without a Hamas terrorist hiding behind them it simply proves how sneaky they are!
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yeah, i think we need to get some professional fact checkers to verify if hamas has JDAM systems
fucking zionist tool
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gaza-airstrikes-israel-1.6998419
So they’re airstriking the south after telling everybody in the north to head south.
Obviously. No civilians are in the North to strike anymore.
