Over 100 Israelis have died and more than 900 were injured after rockets were fired from Gaza by Hamas militants, Israeli officials said Saturday.
The Palestinian Health Ministry said 198 were killed in Gaza and at least 1,610 were injured Saturday in retaliatory attacks from Israel.
“We are at war. We will win,” Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on Saturday.
The Israeli Defense Forces earlier declared “a state of alert for war,” according to a statement issued by the IDF.
“Over the past hour, the Hamas terrorist organization launched massive barrages of rockets from Gaza into Israel, and its terrorist operatives have infiltrated into Israel in a number of different locations in the south,” the IDF said early Saturday.
If one day someone comes to your house, the one you were born, the same house where your father was born, and his father before him. And starts killing, raping, torturing, executing, bulldozing the houses were your cousins lives, they don’t let you go to your sacred places, they don’t let you even move from the concentration camps and the walls they have erected.
What would you do? You fight, even if you lose you will fight, even if the world sees the injustice but simply doesn’t care, you will still fight, for them you are a terrorist, but for your people you are a freedom fighter, fighting against invaders.
What if it was a tornado? Do you still fight it to your last standing men or do you accept the fact that you can’t win?
Why leave out the fact that the Jews also have an equally legitimate claim on the land, in addition to having been taken close to the brink of total extermination by circumstances completely beyond their control? A normal, compassionate individual would welcome these people in, make room for them, and live at peace under a stable society, tolerant of different points of view. However, that is not what the Jews encountered upon the creation of Israel. It was just a continuation of the campaign to exterminate them, from a different group. Are you going to argue that it’s bad for Germans to murder Jews, but it is okay for Muslims?
The Jewish people who were brought to Palestine in the 40s were not being exterminated by the Palestinians. The Jewish people illegally collected guns while they were there and forced the Palestinians out of their homes and their country.
If you go a little further back in history you’ll discover some pretty heavy historical claims to the land by the Jewish people. Just to be clear, I consider “historical claim” to be the most bullshit geopolitical argument in existence. I’m merely pointing out the fallacy in claiming Palestinians have claim, but Jews do not. Palestine wasn’t even a country until it was established when Israel was established. It was just a bunch of nomads moving between various borders.
Just curious, if some fascists came to your house citing historical claims to your land, how much would you care about the validity of that claim? How about when they burn your house down, kill your family, and arrest you for objecting? I truly, deeply would not give a flying fuck who lived nearby my house 300 years ago.
Have you asked the Jews that question? You might discover why they keep fighting over the land.
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How much further back is a “little further”? My grandmother was one of the people who fled in 1948. The place her grandparents also lived. You’re talking about what 300 years ago? 400? More? Forgive me if I care very little about a claim to a land that is older than Shakespeare.
I don’t care about a “historical claim” I care about the people who were living in the land and were forcebly ousted in a time frame where the people who were originally ousted are still alive.
Also they were not “nomads” you fuckin racist. My great grandparents had land, a home, a community that were all taken from them.
You’re making an arbitrary claim as though it’s objective. Why is displacement in 1948 justification for historical claim, but expulsion in 1917 not? Beginning 1914 during WW1, many Jews were expelled from Palestine by the Ottoman authorities as enemy nationals, since they had immigrated from countries now at war with the Ottoman Empire. In 1917, the Ottoman authorities carried out the Tel Aviv and Jaffa deportation, expelling the entire Jewish civilian populations of Tel Aviv and Jaffa. Many deportees subsequently died from hunger and disease. Surely those Jews have just as much claim to live in Israel as the Palestinians displaced by the 1947 UN partition plan.
The 1914 deportations were of Russian Jewish people. If any Russians claim they have rights to the land then sure, I’ll buy that, but I don’t care for one’s religion and I don’t believe the Jewish people who were brought to Palestine in the 40s were of Russian descent.
Only 1/3 of the population that was deported in 1917 were Jewish. The rest were Muslims and Christians and had nothing to do with religion. Under British rule all the people deported in 1917 were allowed to return. So they got their claim when they were allowed to return, it really is unfortunate how many died due to the conditions they were sent into, and I’m not defending the actions of any State.
Russians being deported and people who were allowed to return makes those claims barely anything compared to the Palestinians who were ousted multiple times in the last 100 years and not allowed to return, with the ones remaining living in apartheid.
The 1914 deportations were of Russian Jewish people.
This sounds like you’re defending ethnic deportation. It doesn’t matter which passport the Jews held. They were expelled.
Only 1/3 of the population that was deported in 1917 were Jewish.
I am clearly and specifically talking about the Jews, not the Muslims or Christians.
Under British rule all the people deported in 1917 were allowed to return.
But they were not given their land and houses back. They were displaced, just like some Palestinians in 1948.
I’m struggling to believe you could argue the ways the Jews were treated is better. If anything, it was much worse. The Palestinians have never been wholesale deported, only displaced within the same nation.
The Israel state was created thanks to the influence of wealthy Jews.
A normal, compassionate individual would welcome these people in, make room for them, and live at peace under a stable society, tolerant of different points of view
Until your guest started asking for more land, more control, and ultimately doesn’t want yo share with you but wants the things you have.
Hamas are absolutely headbanging murderous zealots committing a lot of atrocities right now. But if you herd people up, deprive them of basic liberties, brutalize & kill a bunch of them, and steal their land at gunpoint and then you can hardly act all shocked that a bunch of them are radicalized and go on a rampage. Doesn’t matter if we’re talking what Israel has done to Palestinians or what the United States did to Native Americans. Maybe the lesson to learn here, is don’t do those things. But I expect that Israel will pound Gaza committing its own atrocities as payback and the same thing will happen again in another decade.
Nah, man. If they cited all those things, or more importantly the complete stifling of Gazans’ ability to prosper or flourish today, that would be one thing. What did they cite instead? The desecration of the Al-Aqsa mosque. That is more important to them than the apartheid. Fuck Hamas. They’re accomplishing nothing more than the death of Palestinians and more suffering. And they just empowered the most right wing, unpopular government that Israel’s ever had, one that Israelis were divided against. Hamas and the Iranian regime need to be eradicated. They are hurting any chance at Palestinian freedom and equality and right to prosperity. And they’re just causing more and more every day normal Israeli/Jewish and Palestinian suffering. This Iranian regime supports the tyranny of the Syrian government over the Sunnis (and its use of chemical weapons against them), Russia’s terrorist attacks on civilians in Ukraine and the invasion of that country in general, the complete undermining of the Lebanese government by Hezbollah, and the complete overthrow of the Yemeni government by a similarly tyrannical group in Yemen. And it uses of rape and sexual violence and murder against men and women protesting the death of a woman caused by the morality police and the oppression of women by the regime.
I think the only way to accomplish either a true one state democratic nation that honors Israel-Palestine as the home of Judaism or a two state solution, is boycott and divestment (because there is no way to peacefully protest and engage in civil obedience to achieve freedom and equality (they murdered a journalist and nothing came of it) and there’s no way to win militarily). It worked with the apartheid government in South Africa, and hopefully it will work with Israel.
If the “fighting” means doing the exact same crimes to other innocents that is not making you the good guys.
Believe it or not, but the world isn’t simply comprised of goodies and baddies. We don’t live in a Marvel movie.
His point is that if you want international support don’t go around murdering innocent people then parade their bodies around.
He didn’t imply that Israel were the goodies. It’s more like both sides have people being baddies.
Also, you have a lot of innocent on both sides. That’s why both sides get called out for being baddies as they are hurting innocents. There’s a good chance that Hamas even killed some folks who have never done anything but be sympathetic to the Palestinian plight.
Terroristic is the right description, and can also be applied to some of Israel’s behavior towards Palestinians.
‘settlers’ aren’t innocent, colonizer
Israel is doing a genocide. Palestinians fighting back are absolutely not doing the same crimes.
What would you do?
I would not beat, rape, and murder innocent people. That seems like a low bar to clear, right? Attacking military targets and personnel might be morally justified, but certainly not what they did over the weekend.
How many of the “terrorists” (the Islamic ones, not the Judaic ones) were actually from the oppressed populations, though? There are a lottttttt of people in that region that hate the Israeli government…Not sure how many of the displaced peoples you’re telling “this isn’t the right way to avenge violent state oppression” are actually participating in the fighting.
He didn’t tell any of the non participants any such thing… His statement obviously refers to those commiting the acts, not generalized to everyone.
That perspective does not excuse Israel’s behavior or blame any victim of Israel’s injustice, it simply points out the attacks are terroristic (meaning targeting civilians). Terrorists often have sympathetic reasons, but go about it in a way that is wrong.
Point taken, thanks for taking the time to lay it out.
Oh please thats an absurd hot take.
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I would agree with this, except that afaik both groups have a legitimate historical/religious claim to the territory. Additionally, you’re basically saying that Hamas is justified in slaughtering hundreds of unarmed people. I was sympathetic until they made the Las Vegas shooting look like a minor scuffle.
Seriously, I can sympathize with the frustration up to the point where suddenly murdering civilians is ok when “the good guys” are doing it.
Material conditions my ass, if it’s wrong for one it’s wrong for all.
And before any Hamaboos show their asses,
انا امريكاني فالاسطيني، جدي كن من بيتلحم،
My kin are not your shield for endorsing the same acts you hold up to demonize those you hate you Bougeyevik hypocrites.
I’m sorry to say, but this is how guerilla warfare goes. Sometimes civilians are casualties.
Did those civilians do anything to deserve it? Usually no. In this case though, they did. Some were already there, and they were responsible for starting the civil war by accepting to split the country. Others weren’t there, but came after that - trampling on another country’s ashes and disregarding its original citizens.
What are you going to do when civilians move into your home and declare it is theirs? Consider them civilians? Consider them innocents?
Additionally, you’re basically saying that Hamas is [justified in slaughtering hundreds of unarmed
The fact the Israel state contribute to the creation of those monsters, you can’t expect the hate to just disappear.
I’m sure it’s as straightforward as you make it to be.
It is. You really don’t think so?
It’s not. History never is and it’d be worth understanding how we got to this place.
The Ottoman Land Code of 1858 is a good place to start. Essentially much of Palestine was misappropriated to Ottoman bureaucrats and the Ottoman state. The Jewish National Fund purchased portions of this land and leased it to Jewish settlers who kicked the Arabs out with the cooperation of their Ottoman landlords. Legal, but unjust, and I have to imagine most of the Jewish settlers were as ignorant as the Arabs were to the fact that their land had been sold out from under them.
As a side note, if you want to spot the Press that are at least trying to be neutral, you can see how they refere to the Hamas people that inflitrated Israel:
- The neutral Press will call them something like “guerrilas” (same as, for example, they would refer to the FARC types in Colombia if they attacked a city), “militants” or “infiltrators”.
- The biased Press will call them “terrorists”
They are terrorists. That’s literally what they are. The fact that attacked an evil fascist state’s city doesn’t change that.
I’m happy that everybody who kills people to terrify the rest into doing what they want are consistently called terrorists.
So both Hamas and the Israeli state.
As actual and clear acts of “killing people to terrify the rest do what they want”, like bombing of hospitals, murdering of journalists and killing children throwing stones at the armored bulldozers razing their homes, all commited by one side, have consistently never been described as “terrorism” (even though they match the definition), it’s a pretty good indication of the bias by a media outlet when they now describe the entirety of the military incursion from one side and all its participants as “terrorism” even though they refrained to call actual acts of “killing people to terrify the rest do what they want” from the other side as “acts of terror” and those who executed them as “terrorists”.
The unbiased thing to do is to consistently describe all “attacks meant to incite terror for the purposed of making the rest do what you want” (such as Hamas’ terrorists murdering people at a dance party, and Iraeli Army terrorists bombing hospitals and executing journalists and children) as “terror attacks” and those who executed them as “terrorists”.
Israel can’t be called terrorism because terrorism must be—by definition—unlawful
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
Emphasis mine.
As Israel did their deeds outside internationally recognized Israeli territory - so outside the internationally recognized jurisdiction of their courts - hence were Israeli Law does not apply.
So those deeds were unlawful (no matter how much Israeli Law is rigged to say otherwise), and even by that twisted definition you selected of “terrorism” that defines it so that state-sponsered terror attacks on a nation’s own soil do not count as “terrorism”, Israel’s military attacks on civilians anywhere outside the internationally recognized borders of Israel (so including Gaza) for the purpose of intimidating the population are still terrorism because the Law that does apply there says they’re unlawful.
Wars are by definition lawful. Sorry you’re wrong
It’s also not a twisted definition. It’s the literal dictionary definition that all countries use when defining terrorism.
And no, if war time acts were not lawful, all war is terrorism which it isn’t so again you’re wrong.
Sure, there is no such thing as the Geneva Convention and there are no such things as War Crimes and its all above board if the people controlling power in the country doing the deeds tell their parliamentarians to write down that “it’s all legit!” in their own country’s legislation.
This feels way too convenient for Netanyahu.
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Somewhat, but it also undermines his “Mr. Security” image…a lot. He will assuredly blame it on the left, but when he’s running against former military brass, rings hollow. Also really pulls the rug out from under his various peace accords
Are we supposed to believe Israeli intelligence missed this?
Nor really. A large part of Natenyahu’s platform is security. “Keep me in power and I will protect you”. He has failed in this spectacularly, and Mossads reputation will take a very significant hit. Hamas has made them look incompetent. Of course he will use this to demand more authority, but overall it is bad for him.
FYI: The Palestinian areas are the Shin Beths and to a lesser degree Amanns responsibility. Mossad is for foreign nations.
Point taken.
Israel has the iron dome to prevent something like this from happening, right? So why does the attack work this time?
Because the Iron Dome, like most other products of the US military industrial complex, is more of a profit seeking venture for PMCs than it is a solution to any actual combat problem
Still seems like the first time I’ve heard of this kind of attack causing double digit casualties isn’t it? I’m not super in the loop so I could be wrong.
I think you’re right. In 2021 only 14 died on the Israeli side with a number of Hamas missiles landing inside Gaza by accident (according to Israel). In 2022 Hamas fired about 1k rockets and it caused one Israeli death.
OP’s headline isn’t great, the rockets were only one part of todays events
At 6:29am, the Gaza Strip terrorist group launched an incursion into Israeli territory by land, sea and air as well as some 3,000 rockets within hours… …Armed Palestinians managed to overwhelm several Israeli communities and military bases along the border, which have stayed under their control for hours. Dozens of Israeli civilians were believed to be held captive in Kibbutz Be’eri. Israeli forces poured into the conflict zones and engaged the terrorists. Dozens of Israeli captives - including numerous women, children and elders - are believed to have been taken into the Gaza Strip.
ETA: there’s the added factor that it’s Saturday and a religious holiday so more people would have been asleep at home at that time, or on their way to pray/celebrate/party.
Saturation attacks are a common tactic to overwhelm air defense zones, but this isn’t just that. Hamas and IJ fighters have begun ethnically cleansing border towns, literally gunning down shelters full of civilians, as well as parading the naked bodies of women they’ve raped and murdered, through the streets.
This is only a fraction of the attacks, and all on video btw, but I don’t suggest watching them.
What are IJ fighters? Civilians from which side?
Islamic Jihad. It’s a relatively newer militant faction. All, or most, of the recent IDF military incursions into Gaza lately have been targeting their leadership and fighters.
Could you source that?
2 minutes on duckduckgo. Plenty of other horrible stories as well.
No, but only because I don’t want to have to look at them again. Go on Twitter, or any combat footage forum/sub, and they’ll be there.
There is no shortage of videos of both slain IDF (It’s war, so that legitimate), and terrorists attacks on civilians. I’m sure there are hundreds more clips uploaded since I stopped looking at the discussions.
I saw one completely out of context today and the person didn’t provide a source even when asked. So I ask you again, can you source these?
I don’t care if you don’t believe me, but if you took even 2 minutes of your own time searching Twitter, Reddit, or Funker, you’d see all of that, and a lot more. I’m good on watching any of those videos ever again.
They’re literally being spammed across all of those feeds, so knock yourself out.
Edit: After looking at your post history, I now understand that you’re afraid of even spending 2 minutes searching for the videos of these specific acts of terrorism/ war crimes: because it would directly conflict with your worldview.
Hmmm, I wanted to ask, when you went through my profile, did you see all those comments about me not agreeing with Hamas, in between all the tech joke comments? Or did you just get a glimpse of me being Palestinian and threw your arms up and were like, of course this terrible person wants a source for this piece of information I claimed, it’s because they hate Israel!
Like seriously, could you describe your process? The video of this woman personally horrified me this morning on Reddit like I said. No source, no one writing about it, long before any news of it hit. I wanted to know who she was and what on earth had happened wrong and why she is there and whether she’s alive or not and how she is involved (or not). I already dislike Hamas, they drag ‘traitors’ around on MCs. They aren’t exactly doing god’s work. So which part of me asking for a source led you to believe I’m somehow okay with this or unable to watch this because it will change my world view. What world view exactly?
I think it’s lame to think that people asking for a source somehow are ready to pound on you and disagree.
These videos are powerful and they can be powerful in the wrong way if used as disinformation and aren’t relative to the current thing at hand. That’s why I asked for a source.
Also listing Hamas’ crimes does not in any way justify Israel’s actions that they take against civilians. Vice versa.
What is Funker?
Edit: yeah, I did DuckDuckGo’d it in both English and Arabic when I first saw it. Accessing Twitter isn’t exactly easy now. The only place I saw it on was reddit with no source. Chances are it was too early before the Telegraph or whoever wrote on it. So, I’m so fucking sorry for asking you to cite yourself when you are on the internet.
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It’s not perfect and especially a huge amount of rockets can overwhelm it. Also it’s much more effective on slower homemade rockets, not the faster kind Iran typically sells Hamas.
the faster kind Iran typically sells Hamas.
… Well, this isn’t going to end well.
And Iran, Iran so far away
Keyword is “typically”. Iran has been sending rockets to Hamas for decades.
POTUS Biden already gave a response on supporting their military ally, Israel, and if I see one more braindead fucking comment like “sUrE BUt WhERe wAs HAwAiI’s FaST ReSPoNsE?” Within 4 hours he sent aid an national guard response, idk how right wingers keep using that stupid fucking talking point.
That said I really don’t appreciate the onesidedness of the USA response, I have much higher hopes for the UN council assigned to this issue and any UN Task Forces deployed in the future. I believe Israel mostly caused this issue on their own by the apartheid oppression of Palestinians, I think this outcome and many other attrocities would have been completely avoided in the timeline where Rabin wasn’t assassinated
I have much higher hopes for the UN council assigned to this issue and any UN Task Forces deployed in the future.
LOL! You really don’t understand anything about how the world works, do you?
I believe Israel mostly caused this issue on their own by the apartheid oppression of Palestinians, I think this outcome and many other attrocities would have been completely avoided in the timeline where Rabin wasn’t assassinated
Conveniently skipping over Ariel Sharon there aren’t you? You know that time when Israel removed all settlements and ended the occupation of part of Palestine as a goodwill gesture? What happened after that? Something for you to look into.
LOL! You really don’t understand anything about how the world works, do you?
UNSCO and UNDOF both have headquarters in Jerusalem and consistently have teams both in offices and on the ground upholding ceasefires and patrolling the borders. They’ve easily done more good with fewer resources than all singular nations combined on this topic.
Yes the UN can help in being observers after a ceasefire is agreed upon.
Does it look like there’s an imminent ceasefire agreement between Israel and Hamas?
Do you think there’s are UN citizens that sign up for the UN military and go through training to serve on UN missions? Not how it is.
The way it really works is the UN asks actual countries to provide soldiers for these missions. So which countries do you think are going to send their soldiers to fucking Gaza based on a promise by Hamas not to attack them?
And UN observers don’t fight wars. They just report to both parties of the ceasefire the activities of the other. If either side takes military action the observers leave. Hamas fires rockets at Israel every week. Just that the Iron Dome takes them out and you don’t hear about it. But if you’re the leader of a country are you going to send your soldiers somewhere there will constantly be rockets flying over them with the potential that if the Iron Dome might clip on and divert it into your soldiers?
If my memory isn’t failing: then Israel will bomb some apartments, raid and beat some holy sites, eventually call a ceasefire before all the civilians die from lack of food, water, and power, then build more checkpoints and fenced off areas, and finally we’ll be right back here again in a few years until there are no more Palestinians.
So to answer your question, yes. If it weren’t for the UN I really truly believe Israel would just commit genocide.
You’ve obviously consumed a lot of internet propaganda originating from Iran.
Israel’s intent were actually genocide they could simply drop a nuke on Gaza and there would be nothing the UN could do to stop it. They don’t do that because their intent isn’t on genocide.
Also the UN cannot be in Israel without the consent of Israel. Nations have ultimate sovereignty over their territory there is nothing about the UN that supersedes national sovereignty. Seems you’ve also fallen prey to the “black helicopter” UN conspiracy theories, just you think UN black helicopters are a good thing. The reality is they don’t exist, UN peacekeepers are only where they are because nations have agreed to their presence to observe the other party of a treaty (and will allow themselves to be likewise observed) to ensure they are complying.
You should take some time to learn about how things work in the world instead of just believing everything you read on social media. The can provide tools that nations can use to facilitate peace, but the nations themselves decide whether to use those tools.
Israel
Literally sent
Netanyahu
To Court
Over This
What the hell kind of Iranian Propoganda originates in the courts of Israel?! He was literally removed from power because of the corruption trials.
Israel sends Netanyahu to court over many things. He’s a really crooked dude. So you’re gonna have to narrow down which specific case you’re going on about.
No good guys here. Hamas doesn’t seem to serve the Palestinians, they serve their own Jihadist agenda. Isreal remains a fascist apartheid regime which has been systematically killing all Palestinians in a genocide for decades.
Hamas sets up military operations in a civilian building by force - the civilians have no say in this and get killed if they protest Hamas then uses that building to launch rockets, store ammunition, communication stations How the fuck should Israel proceed to neutralize those sites? Because what they do is:
“Roof knocking”: Hitting the building’s roof with a small explosive to announce that it will fall in 15 minutes (see video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teevWpXlRZY example from yesterday) Automatic SMS and phone calls impacted areas warning and urging to evacuate Precision strikes that make the building fall vertically with minimal damage to the areas As a result, civilians (and potentially military personnel) are given a chance to evacuate while ammunition stashes, rocket launching stations etc stay in the building and are destroyed.
To be honest, I’m shocked those protocols are still used after Hamas’s attack. I would absolutely not be surprised of these measures stopped.
The anti-Israel don’t care that Israel is bending over backwards to minimize human suffering while fighting a decades long war against people who are deliberately trying to kill their children.
Remember how upset they are when Israel does something 100 percent defensive, like build a security fence to keep out an endless stream of suicide bombers?
This isn’t good-faith criticism.
These people hate Israel for this that they works be applauding other countries for. And we all know why
“Hey so I know we’ve been doing a genocide but look, we’re being really nice when we bomb innocent civilians homes by letting them know we’re going to bomb their homes.”
This (a) doesn’t excuse literal genocide and (b) is just a “nicer” version of exactly the thing they’re appalled Hamas just did. You don’t get to cry foul if you’re going to retaliate with a tit for tat play.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=teevWpXlRZY
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
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So they should give up their homes, land, resources, and culture for the last gasp of colonialism?
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Jews can own land all over the world. So can Muslims. This is a false dichotomy.
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There’s a hundred countries they can both live in without problems. There is no amount of past trauma that justifies ethnic cleansing for literal settlers to move in.
As a Jew, no, there is no country in the world I can live in without problems, including Israel. America has been wonderful to us, but I grew up seeing swastikas spray painted on my synagogue and being taunted by the goyim. A far cry from the persecution my ancestors have endured, but I don’t delude myself into thinking I’m safe here if the economic/political situation deteriorates.
As somebody else pointed out, reducing the people in Palestine to Muslims and they treating all people who happen to be muslims as if they’re as the same, is pure unadulterated racism of the worst, most disgusting, kind.
How does it feel to be the exact caricature Hamas shows the children of slaughtered families for recruitment?
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There is only one country whose national religion is Judaism, but it is practiced in plenty of other places.
More to the point, the fact that there are other Islamic countries is of little comfort to the Palestinians. They do not live in those countries and those countries do not want them.
Some of those countries do provide varying levels of support for Hamas because they (accurately) see it as an indirect way to attack Israel.
By the same token, any blame you want to place on Israel for this conflict reflects on Isreal as whole, and not every individual living within it.
The whole reason why other Islamic (Arab) countries don’t accept Palestinians is so that they retain their “rightful” claim to lands annexed by Israel from the 1948 Arab-Israeli war.
The Palestinians did it to themselves that they couldn’t live peacefully with the Israelis back then and should accept the outcome of the war as a failing of the Arab League and their resistance.
Besides, you can’t deny that the Arab world owes some debt to the Palestinians to accept their refuge since it was the Arab League that lost all those attempts to retake Palestinian lands (amongst other things), and yet they don’t do it.
The religious aspect of all this is just secondary to the secular reason.
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You realise just how racist it sounds when you’re blaming the Palestinian people as a whole for the actions of a subset?
When a huge majority support it, is it racist to say they support it?
Do you have evidence that a huge majority wants to take over states if they are invited in, which was the claim you were making?
To quote you:
The whole reason they don’t take Palestinians in is because Palestinians try to take their country over.
It happened in Jordan, it happened in Lebanon. It will happen anywhere they are allowed to congregate.
This is full on far-right “if you let those immigrants in they’ll take over” rhetoric.
EDIT: I’d also like to point out, that in fact this notion of a people coming in and trying to “take over” ironically given the context here has a long-standing history as an anti-semitic trope when used against Jewish people. It’s no less of a racist trope when employed against other groups, though.
Dude. The Palestinians only ever reacted in that time frame. It was the Jewish settlers that attacked the British soldiers and then turned on the Palestinians. Go ask a British military historian.
Treating all muslims as if they’re all the same and interchangeable is pure racism.
Well by another definition they all have the same core religious view. Just as any other religion that perpetuates collective hysteria and war. Humanity is better without any kind of organized dogma. Let’s jettison the stone age thinking.
If all they did was argue for jettisoning stone age thinking, I’d have been all for that. But instead the person I replied to engaged in just another variant of the same stone age thinking.
There’s action and reaction here.
And reaction and reaction and reaction…going back 5,000 years
Gaza is a massive prison and they don’t have anything to loose anymore. Will Israel become the exterminator? We will see.
Murder of civilians celebrated by the whole of their society is not justified by reaction. I suggest you look at some other societies which react to genocidal crimes, for some reference. Most of them don’t do that.
Nah, this was the case with Palestinian Arabs all along. Since their “throw all Jews into the sea” till now.
ANC bombed civilians and their attacks were celebrated by many. The IRA did, and were celebrated by many. ETA did, and were celebrated by many. It is common, and suggesting it’s unique to Palestinians is pure racism.
EDIT: Ah, looked at one of your other comments that were equally awful. Block incoming.
I don’t think you know the difference between collateral damage and massacre. Or maybe you know that, just pretend to be a moron. I can accept your pretense, but not your point.
Are you suggesting it is not true that the groups he mentioned intentionally targeted civilians?
Perhaps you’re not old enough to remember the ANC bombing campaign against Wimpy restaurants, mainly timed to go off during lunchtime to maximise damage.
The Church Street bombing it’s reasonable to argue collateral damage for, but a burger chain doesn’t strike me as a legitimate military or government target you can play the “collateral damage” game with.
Maybe it was just ignorance of history that made you single out Palestinians.
OK. I don’t think IRA and ANC had that nasty habit of raping their victims and parading their mutilated bodies, or lynching them, and in general these were not genocidal in ideology while Hamas is. Is that sufficiently clear for you to comprehend?
FFS, I’m Armenian and I could give Israel another try at existing after turning it into radioactive ash, but defending these animals is just vile.
And now you’re making an entirely different point and evading addressing the gross generalization you made where you blamed not just Hamas but all Palestinians for the crimes of some and implied they were uniquely bad. At this point I agree with the other person who blocked you.
Your interpretation is fine. I’ll skip your “suggestions”, thanks.
Hamas gave being legitimate a try. Israel blocked their accession in the West Bank after they won the election. They were never given a chance to serve Palestinians.
I wouldn’t really expect them to idly stand by and let an organization whose charter is essentially “Death to Israel, death to all Jews” to come into power
There cannot be a peaceful coexistence between Israel and Hamas because (and their charter has a section explicitly devoted to this) Hamas does not want it, when they talk of “ending the occupation”, they don’t just mean of Palestine
Funny thing. If we used that logic then we’d all be dead. No war would ever end but with the complete annihilation of the loser and with nukes that means everyone.
Furthermore, PR line or not, Hamas was elected. Interfering to stop them from taking power is an act of war itself. Justify it how you want but Israel hasn’t given peace a chance in a long time.
When one side very explicitly states “there will be no peace, we will keep fighting until one of us is completely wiped out”, I struggle to see why the world should not oblige, and while the state of Israel is definitely not perfect it’s not very difficult for me lean towards the side that’s still managing to perform roof knocking over the complete and utter barbarism displayed by the Hamas terrorists over the fast few days
That’s funny because Israel has been violating international law and the laws of war for decades. Roof Knocking doesn’t absolve them of using Israeli law in occupied areas, shooting medical personal at unarmed protests, bombing UN facilities, or using White Phosphorus shells that airburst.
I’m not saying Hamas is fighting clean. I’m saying PR doesn’t make policy.
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Free Palestine.
People are dying and you’re spouting slogans like an idiot.
People are always dying.
Yeah but civilized people don’t celebrate it happening.
“Civilized people”… What a lovely dream.
Yes it is. If everyone shares this dream then it’s a reality. But people like Hamas prevent it from being a reality.
Israel is unleashing holy hell on Gaza right now. Because paradox of tolerance states that while we tolerate many things, the evil intolerance of Hamas cannot be tolerated.
What is civilized about turning another nation into an open air prison? What is civilized about collective punishment? What is civilized about imprisonment without trial? What is civilized about turning elderly people out of their family homes, so that foreigners with no real connection to the area may live there instead? What is civilized about ignoring these things? What is civilized about funding and excusing them? Civilization is a lie we congratulate ourselves with when we don’t want to look at the carnage we condone.
Bullies fight
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
It’s a violent revolution to extinction. All the more political capital for the Netanyahu government to rapidly encroach.
Yeah poor Hamas, he had no choice but to murder civilians
Hamas sets up military operations in a civilian building by force - the civilians have no say in this and get killed if they protest Hamas then uses that building to launch rockets, store ammunition, communication stations How the fuck should Israel proceed to neutralize those sites? Because what they do is:
“Roof knocking”: Hitting the building’s roof with a small explosive to announce that it will fall in 15 minutes (see video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teevWpXlRZY example from yesterday) Automatic SMS and phone calls impacted areas warning and urging to evacuate Precision strikes that make the building fall vertically with minimal damage to the areas As a result, civilians (and potentially military personnel) are given a chance to evacuate while ammunition stashes, rocket launching stations etc stay in the building and are destroyed.
To be honest, I’m shocked those protocols are still used after Hamas’s attack. I would absolutely not be surprised of these measures stopped.
The anti-Israel don’t care that Israel is bending over backwards to minimize human suffering while fighting a decades long war against people who are deliberately trying to kill their children.
Remember how upset they are when Israel does something 100 percent defensive, like build a security fence to keep out an endless stream of suicide bombers?
This isn’t good-faith criticism.
These people hate Israel for this that they works be applauding other countries for. And we all know why
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=teevWpXlRZY
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
as usual, the Palestinian death toll is now at least 5 times higher than the Israeli death toll and Israel isn’t done yet
Don’t lose sight of who the aggressor is.
It’s a poorly equipped terrorist group fighting against a full fleged national military force. If the current death toll is only 5 times higher for Hamas, they really chaught Isreal off guard with that attack.
Did u not see the map? Israel has been eliminating Palestine for decades and tiny Palestine is the big bad guy here, according to you?
Some of the people all of the time, I guess
Israel has been eliminating Palestine for decades
Both sides have been trying to “eliminate” each other for decades. It’s just Israel is winning.
and tiny Palestine is the big bad guy here, according to you?
It generally makes no sense to talk about “good” or “bad” in international politics.
But let’s look at it from this way: There is no possibility of a Palestinian victory by military means and there hasn’t been in a long time. Yet, everytime there was peace process it get’s rejected by Palestine and they cling to their demand of the total destruction if Israel.
At this point fighting Israel is just fighting for the sake of fighting, inflicting suffering on Israel and martyrdom.
Israel isn’t going anywhere. So in a realistic sense it’s on Palestine to come to the negotiation table and settle for peace (and yes, the condition are now much worse then in 1993). Or they can choose to fight a lost cause … to the death.
Look at anither way. England gave half of Palestine to their enemies…why should Palestine have agreed to any of this in the first place? Oh that’s right they didn’t and this was shoved down their throats. Some would say illegally.
Palestine basically paid for what the Germans did to the Jews.
Did you respond to the wrong comment?
I mean, definitionally Hamas is the aggressor here. The force Israel has traditionally employed in response is nowhere near proportional or responsible, but they have rarely been the inciter in large-scale armed conflicts.
Bombast and hyperbole don’t win you arguments or minds on topics like this. Let the atrocities of Israel’s violent apartheid speak for themselves, free of embellishment.
So what you’re saying is Israel has killed over 4000 Palestinians this decade, including 200 this year prior to this attack, and Palestine launches a counter-attack that leaves 40 dead, and because Palestine retaliated to initial attacks they are now the aggressor “definitionally”? Is the only way to not be labeled the aggressor to soak up every single death at the hands of apartheid in stride?
If you take 10 punches and then throw 1, you are not the aggressor and for anyone to suggest such is for them to side with the aggressor.
Not to mention, I’m having a hard time imagining someone saying “[Israel has] rarely been the inciter in large-scale armed conflicts” while simultaneously looking at the map of Israel carving up the Palestinian homeland to shreds.
When a fight stops and then you lob rockets at civilians years later, that’s a new conflict. This isn’t difficult to put together.
When the fight stops
Palestine has been occupied since how long? Israeli aggression never ended.
Did you know Israel is blockading Gaza?
I don’t really see how that’s relevant, here. It’s horrible; however, it’s also not relevant to whether or not Hamas started a new discrete conflict (they did).
Do you think there is an ongoing conflict if Israel is maintaining a blockade of Gaza?
A blockade is an act of WAR. By any definition. There’s no “new” conflict. War doesn’t just “reset” because you say so.
War requires two states. Palestine isn’t one.
Ah yes, the famously stopped Israel/Palestine conflict. You’re right, I forgot that they had declared a ceasefire some time after the last Israeli raid on Palestine “years” ago, back in July 2023, where they sent thousands of troops, drones, and missiles into Jenin.
Israel is an illegal occupying force. As such they are inherently always the aggressor.
Ok antisemite. Israel is defending itself from terrorists.
Abusing the term antisemitism to deflect criticism from an apartheid regime is disgusting.
This is a chart that shows one thing only: Israel has the stronger military.
It doesn’t say a thing about who attempted to kill more civilians, and who took steps to avoid civilian deaths. It doesn’t say anything about who has made concessions for peace, and who has walked away from peace deals for almost a century.
The chart shows military might. It doesn’t show intent. It doesn’t show who tried to avoid bloodshed. It doesn’t show who ignited conflict after conflict.
A similar chart showing civilian deaths in WWII would show the US killed way more Nazi civilians than vice versa. Would you be arguing that the US was the bad guy in that war?
This is only true because Israel is good at stopping attacks, not because Hamas isn’t trying.
Graph “intentional attacks” targeted at civilians and you’ll get a very different picture. Personally, if someone tried to murder my family but failed, I wouldn’t find them blameless just because they didn’t succeed.
Also missing from the picture is that for decades Hamas has been using Palestinian civilians as human shields, building bombs and rockets in the houses where children live, shooting rockets from inside schools and hospitals.
Hamas gave Israel the choice of letting it’s own children die, and not shooting back, or shooting back and Knowing that no matter how hard they tried (and they try pretty fucking hard) that they wouldn’t be able to avoid civilian deaths.
And ALL of this was because Hamas was banking on people in the west doing exactly what this gullible sap is doing: assuming that Israel is the monster.
Let’s see a chart of the number of attempted murders of civilians from each side. That’ll paint a pretty different picture.
Tell me, because we both know that the Israeli casualty number is only low because Israel is good at protecting its citizens and not because Hamas isn’t trying to kill as many Israelis as it can, do you really think the situation would be better if Hamas was more successful at killing Israelis?
And to the exact same point, one side being less successful at killing citizens doesn’t make them right either.
May the Zionist regime collapse!
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All the Hamaboos are showing their noble savage peddling asses right now
The attack is coming from Gaza. The settlement shit is going on in the West Bank.
This is retaliation for settlement behavior the same way WWII was retaliation for the Ruso-Japanese war.
Stop acting like y’all care about any of us as anything but favorite minorities to shut up and die in your fetishized revolutionary armageddon.
Fuckin’ Bougeyevik trash, I’ll bet a full 90% of y’all think chat script is just misplaced 7s 2s and 3s.
I suspect the reason Hamas has power is their ability to point at the atrocities in the West Bank and stir up hatred.
Likewise the reason the Zionist warhawks in Isreal have power is they can point out the actions by Hamas and stir up hatred.
That’s a hideous feedback loop seen throughout history. It’d be great if it stopped.
My understanding is the Zionists justification for their West Bank actions would make it fair for Native Americans and Mexicans to begin evicting people and bulldozing towns throughout the US… Which I do not support. I’m betting he US would bomb Mexico and raid Native Territories if they did.
based on many of these threads here and on reddit, im starting to think that there is much more anti-semitism in the world than I thought there was. And the veil is getting much thinner.
Don’t confuse criticism of the Israeli government for antisemitism. They have a history of treating Palestinians like absolute garbage, and pushing them more and more and then acting shocked when they push back.
I do not condone the attacks from Hamas on innocent people, but the Israeli government is not innocent in this.
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Only a racist would confuse a sovereign nation with a religion and hence criticism of the actions of said sovereign nation with criticism of a religion.
Anybody claiming anything in the name of all people in this World who are members of the Jewish religion (such as claiming that Israel represent all those people) is by definition a racist because they’re literally implying “they’re all the same”: the racism of thinking of all people who are Jewish are the same (and worse, thinking you can speak for all of them) is specifically called anti-semitism.
Antisemitism is a touchstone of western culture.
Username combined with comment makes me really unsure if you’re hella antisemitic or Jewish and weary
Jewish and oh so weary. And an MGS fan.
Alwayshasbeen.meme
Well, now we know where at least some the weapons the idiot US government left in Afghanistan ended up. I wonder if the 6 billion dollar bribe they paid to Iran helped out.
badly drawn maps are a major culprit. its clear many commenters are young and don’t know the actual history. i’m a bit surprised by just how many pro-hamas posts ive seen. its a little disturbing. read your history. there is very little that the modern state of Israel could have done to prevent any of this. these extremists want total annihilation of israel. what can israel do against terrorists whose stated goal is to participate in a holy war which they believe is their ticket to heaven? it’s an unwinnable conflict. peace talks only work if all sides actually want peace (and just disagree about how to accomplish it) every insane group of extremists across history has had to be dealt with forcefully, at some point, in some way or another, for all of human history. the japanese, germans, soviets, koreans, all needed to be dealt with, and in all cases it required overwhelming force sustained by wide coalitions over many years.
this is no different. if you are young, don’t know the history, and are sitting in your room thinking there is some special concession Israel could give, that would turn this all around, its time to hit the library. The reality is that there isn’t really any land in the area that would work for that. The available land that is compatible with human civilization in that part of the world, is completely full. There is no “amazon” that could be cut down to build new areas for Palestinians to live. It’s a hot, arid, inhospitable part of the world, and civilization is clustered around natural rivers and mountainous locations. There’s no place for anyone to go.
And then there’s the ideology. Even if Israel and some broad coalition decided to invest trillions in some massive infrastructure project to make Gaza the best place in the world to live, the terrorists would still do exactly what they’re doing today. The point you have to understand, is that Hamas does not care about Palestinians. Repeat that to yourself 10x and commit it to your brain forever. Islamic extremists do not care about achieving peaceful cooperation with people of other faiths and ideologies on planet earth. Nor do they even care about their own people.
People in the west are extremely soft and ignorant in some ways. They’ve grown up immersed in a culture of relative stability, judeo-christian ethics, etc. They have no concept that there are people out there who share none of that. They literally don’t care. And the proof is all over twitter. Go watch, let it soak in.
Only a broad coalition with massive force can end this, just like every other time. otherwise its just on an endless cycle.
Yeah learn your history kids
Great the fake map is making the rounds again
nothing fake about it
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Conflating religion and national belonging like this is pure and vile xenophobia. Thinking all Muslim countries supports Palestine is also staggeringly ignorant.
Yea, think about that for a minute. even most muslim countries don’t want extremist palestinians in their country.
“Those other people are also xenophobes” isn’t the great argument you think it is.
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