He and Kunis are learning the hard lesson of “shutting up is free.”
It was stupid of them to say anything. They aren’t in the court room. Their letters aren’t going to affect the decision nor sentencing.
Their letters aren’t going to affect the decision nor sentencing.
Lmao… What exactly do you think the point of pre-sentencing character references in criminal proceedings is? Please be specific.
I don’t know a lot about the guy but his involvement with that organization was probably the only thing I respected about him.
Do you know anything about the charity? Or just what his PR team sold you?
Fair question.
I always thought Masterson seemed like a creep, so I didn’t pay much attention to this case when I heard about it.
Just read the article and another one it linked to regarding sentencing. It sounds like most of the jury voted for acquittal but it wasn’t unanimous so the judge declared a mistrial and then retried him.
Anyone know how this isn’t considered double-jeopardy? It sounds like the very definition of it to me. He was put on trial. The prosecutor was unable to secure a conviction, so the judge gave them another chance?
But weeks after the trial finally started in late 2022, the judge declared a mistrial after the jury remained deadlocked. Jurors in last year’s case had leaned in favor of acquittal on all three counts against him – voting 10-2 on one count, 8-4 on another and 7-5 on the third, but were unable to reach a unanimous decision, leading to the mistrial.
US Fifth Amendment excerpt:
nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb
That’s how a jury trial works. You need all 12 to agree, otherwise it is a hung jury and declared a mistrial. It is then up to the prosecutor to retry the case if they want to.
It isn’t double jeopardy because the trial didn’t come to a decision. If all 12 jury members agreed, one way or another, that is the end of it. At least for that/those counts.
A split decision sounds like a decision to me. The prosecutor failed to convince a jury of the defendant’s guilt. I wonder how many times someone can be tried as long as the prosecutor is able to seat at least one sympathetic juror.
I could understand retrying the case if it was found out one of the jury was on the take, but this sounds exactly like the kind of thing the 5th amendment is supposed to stop.
Oh, we didn’t pick a good enough jury to convict him this time. Let’s try again.
It has to be unanimous. A split decision is not an acquittal anymore than it’s a conviction.
That makes sense, but the 5th amendment doesn’t mention conviction or acquittal.
Seems plain and clear that a retrial is being put in jeopardy a second time. Even my former justification of jury tampering doesn’t seem to hold up to that measure.
He can appeal based on these grounds.
Rather or not he wins would depend on how reasonable it was for the judge to declare the first mistrial.
Anyway, a mistrial does not apply to the fifth amendment. It’s not double jeopardy if the first trial is declared void.
In other words, a mistrial is not a trial. It’s a dud and everyone is allowed to start again.
A mistrial is not a definitive outcome. Not-guilty or guilty would be the definitive outcome.
Mistrials don’t incur double jeopardy, they invalidate the trial as if it didn’t happen. It’s how the law works.
I wonder how many others were raped by Danny but didn’t get their day in court?
That’s the real question, highly likely there’s others.
Life sentences are inhumane
The fact that Ashton was not aware about the numerous sexual assaults coming from the church of scientology is really damming. Sure, he can be biased about long term friend/coworker, it’s messed up to write charcter letters after the victim testimony when the went in to the details of what Masterson did, but to turn a blind eye to scientology? And you care about victims? About. trafficking? About SA? Fuck off.
Clearly they were never serious about Thorn and was likely only a PR move. At least Debra Jo Rupp and Kurtwood Smith haven’t spent the last couple years telling people to believe victims. Still gross, but Ashton put him self on this pedestal. Kunis to a lesser extent, since she wasnt a founder. But I am just so disappointed at all of these people.
I do believe in innocent until proven guilty, but Ashton publicly crucified and called every person arrested by thorn a trafficker and rapist, before they had their day in court. Yet when it’s his friend, even after three verdict, he’s still defending him. It just makes all his work with thorn look self serving, and makes me wonder if he’s doing it to throw people off the scent, considering he bedded a 14 year old.
makes me wonder if he’s doing it to throw people off the scent, considering he bedded a 14 year old
Wait what??
When he and his wife met, she was 14. He claims that he did absolutely nothing with her until she turned 18, but considering the stuff that’s come out about them in those days recently, I don’t believe him
Ashton’s first wife was 15 years older than him? And when he married Mila she would’ve been 32.
I guess they did meet on set when Mila was 14 but like she didn’t start dating him until she was in her late twenties and it looks like she was dating Macaulay Culkin before then.
I have no dog in this fight really… I don’t have any particular feelings for Ashton; but that doesn’t really hit me as the moves of a predator. By her late twenties Mila surely was old enough to make her own choices, no? And she was clearly with someone else for a long time, no?
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It occurs to me that Kutcher and co might not have had access to the court proceedings, testimony, and evidence, but might have had a lot of access to Masterton’s side of the story.
It also occurs to me that being friends with people is complicated and that bad people emotionally loan shark a lot - maybe they felt obligated to send letters of support because they were being guilt tripped about all he’d done for them or because they think being a good friend is supporting no matter what (aka being an enabler).
All that said, Kutcher’s a grown up adult who should have been able to predict that supporting a sex abuser is going to conflict with being involved in an anti-sex abuse organization.
This is typical garbage. You’re literally imitating the townspeople from the “change the racist flag” episode of South Park.
The 8 people that downvoted you are the type of people that love cancel culture.
Ashton was shitty defending his friend. Ashton does not deserve the backlash he is receiving for the exact reasons you describe.
Then again, Lemmy was up in arms over the LTT situation, and all of my comments saying “hey, lets wait to hear both sides” were HEAVILY downvoted.
Fake internet points don’t matter anyways
Didn’t say they do. Stop trying to undermine my comment by replying about something unrelated.
I’m somewhat familiar with the case as I follow an ex-scientologist dude on yt (youtube.com/@GrowingUpInScientology) who was present in the court and reported on all nuances. According to him, Kutcher knew about Masterson’s drugging raping habit, also personally knew one of the women named in the case that prosecuted him (she was also present when Kutcher, upon finding her murdered girlfriend, instead calling 911, called his agent and Masterson).
Said letter’s general purpose to the judge is to ask for a lighter sentence in light of the jury decision, and they try to make him look like the nicest person ever walked on earth, always respecting woman and against all drugs that quasi questions the sentence as is. They deserve the backlash.
Nuance is dead, unfortunately.
danny was already convicted of the rapes when kutcher wrote the letter, saying that danny was an outstanding citizen.
It is a pattern, he had done the same thing before.
From Wikipedia:
“In November 2011, Kutcher received heavy criticism for his tweet in response to the Jerry Sandusky child sexual abuse scandal, calling the firing of Penn State football coach Joe Paterno “in poor taste”. Kutcher subsequently turned over management of his Twitter account to his team at the Katalyst Media company.”
Edit:
The more I read his past I find more disturbing statement that shows red flags.
“Bixler and others have cited additional ways in which Kutcher showed questionable behavior in the past, specifically pointing to a 2003 video of the actor speaking on his MTV show “Punk’d” about actress Hilary Duff. In the video, Kutcher says Duff, who was a minor at the time, is “one of the girls that we’re all waiting for to turn 18. Along with the Olsen twins.””
Back then, that was a pretty damn normal thing for people to say. It’s really awful that that it was so normal, but hopefully most people regret saying things like that now.
It was not normal for a lot of people. But those people were silenced. I’m kinda tired that people are using era as an excuse. What it was is a strong, few influencers allowed assholes to fly their asshole flag out in the open. They encouraged it. It was called edgy. It was called bold. It was called confidence. It was called a lot of things that were all considered positive attributes. Even funny. And a lot of that is how the media back then promoted ideas.
Meanwhile the people who weren’t assholes were called ‘pussies’ by the assholes. In todays world, the ‘pussies’ of yesterday are what we consider normal people today. The people who were stomped on, shut up and quiet. Now that they are allowed to freely fly their ‘we don’t have to shit on others’ flag,
we’re assuming way many people changed. When it’s really just a tip of the balance on who’s collective ideas are more fit for the current time.
We still have the assholes of yesteryear snowflaking they are the victims of the media and complaining about ‘PC’ and cancel culture, balking at the mere idea of consequence for words and actions. These people didn’t collectively change with the times. They’d crawl back to the yesteryear in a second to be celebrated as an asshole if they could.
Sure, Some people may have grown and changed from being the asshole. I have a small handful of relatives that cringe at who they once were, who’s ideas they once followed and they’ve grown as people. But I have enough relatives who also complain about the change and mill on about the good ol days where they could silence everyone who they didn’t agree with/escape culpability.
don’t be fooled for a second that there isn’t still a lot of people who are assholes. We’re just celebrating a different set of rules now to ethically follow now since the metoo movement made its debut and the once quiet people are safer to speak up. Those quiet people aren’t silenced anymore. They just get called PC instead of pussy by the assholes now. That’s as far as the assholes have evolved in today’s world.
It was absolutely normal lol. It was also clearly a joke.
That’s why you won’t find a single contemporary piece freaking out about an episode of Punk’d.
I know you weren’t born yet at the time, but some of us were adults then.
I’m probably older than you. You clearly make a lot of assumptions to make yourself feel right. Nice, pompous, bad faith way to engage people.
There is no way you’d not have memory of this time period as a Gen X or older person. Times are indeed changing. Society is indeed improving.
You must be some kind of mind reader because otherwise your post would just be a bunch of smug assumptions. It’s important to allow people to grow. If you only ever judge people by where they were at their worst, then no one will want to change and the only people you’ll judge to be good are the people you didn’t know about when they were at their worst.
Sure, Some people may have grown and changed from being the asshole. I have a small handful of relatives that cringe at who they once were, who’s ideas they once followed and they’ve grown as people.
I don’t have many friends. The few I have I like a lot, and would go to great lengths to help them. If one of my friends asked me to write a letter to a judge. Even if I knew they did it. I’d write that letter. I would do and have done far crazier, and morally dubious thangs than that to help or protect a friend.
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I’d still write it. I wouldn’t excuse what they did. I’d simply point out that at least one person on the outside knows a different side of that person.
I don’t know the details of Danny’s case. I’m sure that he is an abhorrent human that deserves to be punished. I’m not trying to excuse what he did. I’m simply saying that if I were in Ashton’s shoes. I would have done the same thing.
Do you truly know though? There have been countless cases of people performing sudden uncharacteristic and abhorent actions.
I’d never have expected my father to rape his own daughter, but we exist in this timeline. It’s a fact.
Luka Magnotta’s mother still has faith in her ‘version’ of Luke, but does she truly understand him or is she blinded by her emotions?
What are you actually writing then? Who are you really writing about?
There are also countless cases of innocent people being convicted of crimes they didn’t commit. I’m not saying that happened here but it does happen.
I want you to know that I have typed out a response to you like 4 times. Every time it’s super long. This will be my attempt at condensing it.
As someone that was sexually abused as a child. I fully agree that you never truly know someone. That’s why you write a letter that says “I trust in the courts decision that my friend is guilty, but I never knew that side of them, and they will be missed”. Obviously that’s condensed down, but I think you get the point. You can say I love this person without absolving them of responsibility.
The reason I’m like this is because I was a heroin addict for years. All of my family, and most of my friends abandoned me. A select few friends and my partner came together and saved me. They gave me places to stay, and paid for and gave me rides to treatment.
Now, I am opiate free. I have kids, and I’m still alive. Hell, my best childhood friend died of a heroin overdose, and I adopted his kid.
My family abandoned me, but my friends didn’t.
To paraphrase Bud from Kill Bill. “I don’t dodge guilt, and I always pay my comeuppance.”
Anyway I’m falling asleep at the keyboard. So, I hope this all makes sense when you read it. I hope you have a good night.
It’s a conflict of interest for Kutcher. And he deserves all the bad publicity he’s getting for it.
I agree, and I think stepping down is the right thing to do.
That’s fine, but you shouldn’t run an anti sex-abuse organization if that’s what you’d do. I think ‘friends above all else’ is incompatible with seeking to help and protect victims of abuse, many of which will never get justice precisely because their rapist’s friends protected them.
Just read Ashton’s letter. I thought it’d be way worse judging by some of the comments here, but it wasn’t that bad actually. He didn’t make excuses, just asked for leniency during sentencing. Also brought up a good point about Masterson’s daughter being left without a dad.
Edit: Idk about Mila’s letter though lol. It was awkwardly super focused on the drug-free stuff and no mention of the rapes.
The issue is he never wrote a single letter like that for all the people “his” charity put away. Infact he went so far as to say they deserve no leniency. I’m sure some of them had kids who will now also go without a parent.
Funny how he sung a different tune when he found out one of his best friends has been CONVICTED of raping two people.
You’re right, that’s pretty hypocritical!
Yeah, no. If my best friend, if my brother were convicted by a jury of their peers multiple times for forcibly raping women, I’m out. It doesn’t mean I’d lobby for the punishment to be harsher or anything, but like, they did it. The judge and jury heard all the evidence and testimony and determined he’s guilty. Keep in mind, he committed a pre-meditated crime that probably traumatized the poor victim. For life. Then he did it again.
AFTER knowing that, if you insert yourself into the Justice process and go out of your way to write a letter trying to use personal anecdotes/celebrity/money/fame/goodwill to enable them to get a lighter sentence… you’re a piece of shit. The innocent victims don’t have celebrities on their side putting their thumbs on the scale…
I don’t have many friends.
Yeah, I can see why.
I don’t have many friends. The few I have I like a lot, and would go to great lengths to help them. If one of my friends asked me to write a letter to a judge. Even if I knew they did it. I’d write that letter. I would do and have done far crazier, and morally dubious thangs than that to help or protect a friend.
What about if your friend raped children? Would you still be ok with that? Or are you only OK with it if they rape adults? Just trying to work out exactly where people like you draw the line.
PS: You didn’t need to include the part about not having many friends, it’s heavily implied by the rest of your comment.
I’ve already said this several times. It’s not about being “ok” with any of it. What it is about, is just because someone does horrible doesn’t just erase years positive experiences. It’s ok to love someone from a distance.
Part 2 of your question is a straw man fallacy, and I’m not going to even going to entertain that question.
You’re quip about friends tells me that you’re either young, or unsure of what a friend truly is. I’m not talking about people you know and see sometimes. I’m talking about if you were in jail and needed 500 bail at 2 am. How many people could you call that aren’t family?
You’re quip about friends tells me that you’re either young, or unsure of what a friend truly is. I’m not talking about people you know and see sometimes. I’m talking about if you were in jail and needed 500 bail at 2 am. How many people could you call that aren’t family?
I’ve read and laughed at this three times already.
It sounds like you and your “friends” are terrible people. Stop getting arrested and apologising for rapists you sick fuck.
Ahhh I see we have now moved on to the ad hominem fallacy.
Very good very good
I don’t know, this person has done a lot of decent things in his life. I’m not inclined to judge him by his worst decision.
His worst decision was very relevant to the organization he was part of. I get that they are friends but he probably should be in a good position to understand how unlikely it is that his friend was innocent and how dumb it would be to put himself on the line defending him given what that organization stands for.
Yea, I get it, some will disagree but, in the end, I’m a bigger fan of “call out culture” than “cancel culture”. The former gives the person a chance to course-correct.
But “cancel culture” makes keyboard warriors and the Twitterverse feel saintly, holier-than-thou and powerful because it takes just a few tweets to mess people up! And look righteous while doing it!
Maybe they are valuable members of society after all! /s
You gonna pin the tail on cancel culture and “The Twitterverse” for criminals like Jeffrey Epstein being outed too? Lmao you’re a joke. Masterson RAPED WOMEN, many more of them than the mere handful that were included in the case, i promise you. And his friends went out of their way to use their influence and names to sway a judge in his favor. That’s fucked up, and anyone who says differently is blatantly in support of rapists, rape apologists, or is undoubtedly one themselves trying to justify monstrous behavior.
I’m not talking about Masterson, Epstein and their crimes - I’m talking about Kutcher, who has done more to help anti-child trafficking than all you keyboard warriors put together. Guilt by association is not a thing, despite how much you get off on it and want to wish it into reality.
anyone who says differently is blatantly in support of rapists, rape apologists, or is undoubtedly one themselves trying to justify monstrous behavior.
Witch hunt 101, anyone? You’re so excited to judge, sentence and exert perverse power over another person’s life, you don’t even realize you are doing the exact same thing as history’s witch hunt instigators, under the guise of a modern, rebranded religion.
Unfortunately, it doesnt matter how much good you’ve done. People love witch hunts. Whether this is his worst decision or not, it’s one decision, now the rest are erased.
He’s done good and would continue to, but people are happier if he is never heard from again rather than him helping kids for the rest of his life.
Condemn him? No. Judge him? Yeah, a little bit.
Although I tend to agree, I think this was also the correct decision. He would have distracted from the good work the organisation does.
While the organization might do good work, I see far too many red flags in their demands. They are lobbying against end-to-end encryption for chat messages. The argument is that child abusers can hide behind encryption. While this is true, a ban would lead to no privacy for everyone.
The real-life equivalent would be mandatory microphones for everyone so authorities could catch child molesters more easily. Good cause but horrible methodology. And of course, if they succeed, criminals will move to other, maybe their own-built, messaging systems that still have encryption.
https://www.thorn.org/blog/encryption-trend-threatens-child-safety-gains/
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I think it’s fair to judge someone directly involved with covering up a rapist when that person is also very vocal and actively involved in combating exactly that crime. That’s a pretty massive lapse in judgement and more indicative of his true character than someone that had a single instance of road rage or similar emotional outburst.
directly involved with covering up a rapist
This is a pretty serious accusation. Just because he wrote a character letter does not mean he is actively involved in covering up a crime, that’s a gigantic leap.
his true character
And what would that be? A person who vouches for his friend? Someone who misjudged another person’s character, a mistake presumably you’d never make?
I think it’s fair to judge
No, you think it’s fun to judge and it’s your excuse to feel morally righteous and superior. You’ve made some accusations and backhanded disparagement based on what info? How is any part of it “fair”?
Writing a letter with the intent of reducing the sentence of a convicted rapist counts as a coverup in my book.
Also, individuals who continue to defend rapists are not good people. Doesn’t matter if they are friends.
While I would tend to agree, if I’m reading this correctly, they sent the letters for the sentencing… meaning he was already convicted of rape and they were pleading for leniency for an old rapist buddy, like within the last few months. That is a really bad look no matter how you slice it.
In other words, whether Ashton Kutcher is actually guilty of anything does not matter, because a “bad look” is like a virus, and conviction enough for people to feel justified in upending his life / work. So proud of this brave new neo-puritanical world we live in today. /s
What’s the new, hip term for witch-hunt in 2023?
You’re right, this kind of thing is nothing new. We’ve always been a society which will turn on a dime on anyone, no matter how good or poor the excuse, if given a good pretext to do so. It seems to be human nature.
Never give up a free chance to step on another human being to make oneself feel taller. Give them a few kicks while they are down for good measures. All made extra easy by the internet and cancel culture!
I think it’s something to do with fear of it happening to them, so they do unto others before others can do unto them.
Rape them before they can rape you
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meaning he was already convicted of rape
The letters are typically asked for before conviction as a just-in-case. He’s still asking for leniency for his rapist buddy I just thought I’d clarify that little bit.
Several of the letters make mention of his conviction. Someone posted them above.
He’s also an old friend.
I don’t believe in guilt by association. Asking for leniency for an old friend to a judge, and he didn’t get it, doesn’t make them monsters or rapists by proxy.
If our culture demands every felon be shunned by their friends and family members going forward, then end the perverse charade and just kill everyone upon a felony conviction.
Masterson did a very bad thing, some friends wrote letters to inform the judge that that isn’t all he is and to consider that, not out of malice, but out of compassion.
Man, the internet has absolutely destroyed the concept of nuance. Then again, we only see our “justice,” lol, system as a way to turn the screws on bad people… that our society made, btw. Wanton spectator cruelty without the guilt. Not even a hint of attempts at rehabilitation, and just about everyone roots for a parolee’s failure to confirm their biases.
Advocating maximum cruelty be inflicted on a perpetrator shouldn’t be confused with compassion for the victim. Americans largely ignore that distinction, because it’s convenient, easy, and pleasurable to revel in cruelty and call it kindness.
It’s not like he just stole a car or something. Rapists deserve the worst punishments we have to offer.
They said he was a role model
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The occasional slip up and forced rape is just a minor character flaw then
It doesn’t make them rapists by proxy, but it does make them someone who believes the rapist they like should be the exception.
Is it really for an exception? Or just not making it any longer due to additional bad character traits?
My understanding is they look at the range of acceptable punishment, and then use these factors to determine where it should land. Providing a letter explaining his character would serve to put it on the lower end of it. It’s not so much an exception as it is just providing evidence for the court to make an informed decision for the range.
He didn’t get convicted of rape and being unlikeable. He was convicted of rape. The penalty being assessed is the penalty for rape. Whatever else he may have done, good or bad, he did the rape. He should pay the penalty for the rape that he did. If he collects money for disabled children on Sundays, he shouldn’t be punished less, he should pay the penalty for rape. If he’s a jerk who gets drunk on weeknights and starts his political opinions with “I’m not racist, but…” he shouldn’t be penalized additionally for that. He should be penalized for rape. This thing where we make room for “He’s a rapist, but…” is fucking garbage. It reeks of Brock Turner’s dad trying to reduce the lifetime of harm his son inflicted on a woman to “10 minutes of action”. If a rapist who operates a puppy rescue is less of a rapist than a rapist who does other things we all agree to be unpleasant then it’s not about the harm inflicted, it’s about how much we all generally like the rapist.
I agree with you in principle. But that isn’t how the judicial system works. Usually there’s a minimum, which is the actual punishment for the crime. Then there’s the maximum which is what they give you if you’re a repeat offender or they just generally think you’re an extra shitty person.
Given that, someone with otherwise good character is expected to get the minimum, which is the time for the crime without getting extra. In this case that minimum is 30 years.
But yeah, if you want to talk about how shit the judicial system is, I agree. I could go on about plea bargains, penalty ranges, etc being used as tools of oppression.
He’s a repeat offender. He was convicted on multiple counts. Strictly speaking, he’s not just a rapist, he’s a serial rapist.
But I do think we’d agree about plea bargains. They let the guilty off scot free and let the overworked, underfunded judicial system off the hook when it comes to innocent defendants.
Well, so I get that asking for leniency for an old buddy sure. However… the specific crimes he committed and the organization that Ashton works for/runs whatever. That’s a bad fucking look. That’s a real bad fucking look. Like, that undermines a lot of shit he’s done look.
Nobody is saying it makes them monsters or rapists by proxy, it just makes them friends of a rapist who stayed his friend even after it was proven that he raped at least two people, and then asked for him to be treated leniently even though he certainly didn’t grant any leniency to the people he raped. And they’re free to do that. But disapproving of that isn’t guilt by association, that’s just them making choices regarding their relationship with a rapist that other people are free to judge and criticize them for.
Or… we could accept that Masterson RAPED people, and maybe don’t give him any support, regardless of his past actions. We don’t need to hold out a hand for the fallen rapist. There are too many people in the world that genuinely need help that wasting even an iota of effort on a rapist is a slap in the face to them, not to mention the people the rapist has harmed. There is no nuance.
Yeah alright
Thank you for making my point.
Masterson did RAPE people. Now, do we want to punish him and rehabilitate him, or get our vengeance boner on and beat on him because that hilariously makes our society feel virtuous?
So much for society demonstrating being better than than those that violate its laws. Blood! Blood! More blood! Give us bloooood!
For rape??? Vengeance. Not some magical rehab for sex offenders
You’re the most honest and/or self-aware one of the “string em up” crowd here. Thank you.
You acknowledge where your stance comes from. I respect that, sincerely.
I think through introspection, education, and rehabilitation most criminals can work toward enlightenment and betterment. But sex offenders commit the most heinous of all crimes and deserve no extra consideration. They are blemishes in human evolution and are plagues on decency and humanity. At the absolute very best, they should be locked away from the rest of us
Don’t be glib. If it came out that my oldest friend wqs not only a rapist, but also used his fame and religion to silence the victims and avoid prosecution… AND I was involved with an organization with the express purpose of stopping sex abuse… I’d absolutely tell that friend to pound sand.
There were multiple times when I learned that friends of mine were sexually assaulted, some of those times were by people I considered friends. There’s zero chance that I’d do anything to “put in a good word” for the rapists I once called friends, because their actions in my company have ZERO baring on how they acted in private.
Tl;Dr: If you’re vouching for the upstanding nature of a convicted rapist based on your interactions when he wasn’t being a duplicitous rapist… that says more about your ignorance to how terrible that person can be as opposed to the good works you saw from the rapist when they weren’t raping. You’re also a victim.
Masterson demonstrated no mercy in raping his victims.
Our society demonstrating no mercy to those our society failed, and we did at some point for most felons if not Masterson, just makes us another link in the chain of cruelty. Mercy should always be considered, at every step, especially if we as a society espouse to be better than those we prosecute.
Justice isn’t for pleasure, vengeance is. If you’re feeling good about anyone’s suffering, Masterson or his victims, that isn’t a sense of justice you’re feeling.
Not writing a letter to the judge isn’t vengeance.
I hope you’re a thirteen year old otherwise this is some sad, pathetic shit.
those our society failed
Are you trying to tell me that Society failed Danny Masterson? Do you proof read what you write? No. Society failed the women that he raped. Society fails the millions that will die of treatable disease this year. Society fails the single mother that has to work three jobs to support herself and her child. Society did not, I repeat, did not fail Danny Masterson. Society taught him that rape is bad. Danny decided to do it anyway. Danny failed society.
This is some I’m 16 and this is deep bullshit. The point is we have a process in place to convict and sentence people charged with crimes. Once he was found guilty do his friends need to abandon him? No. But do they need to actually have him show a change BEFORE they show “leniency”. Yes. Your whole argument is so dumb it borders if not crosses over into making you a rape apologist.
Was there physical evidence on these? I’d feel the same way, but what if you didn’t think they did it? Not say that’s what this is. I have no clue.
I have no clue.
Correct. You fucking sure don’t.
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There was a whole court case about it.
“I know nothing about this but I question the legitimacy of the court’s decision” is a bizarre take.
I’m not saying that we need to flog the guilty. I’m just saying that we don’t need to offer him more help than anyone else would get. Is Kutcher writing letters to every judge involved in a rape case and asking for them to go easy because the perp was a youth pastor? Justice is supposed to be blind. If celebrities, politicians, etc. get special treatment then we aren’t working to fix society, we are letting people in power run around doing whatever the fuck they want. Masterson should receive all the help the justice system affords a rapist, but not one bit more, and definitely not because he has celebrity friends writing letters on his behalf.
“Internet doesn’t understand nuance”
Proceeds to put words in other people’s mouths by strawmanning their position
lmao like what are you even talking about?
Except this isn’t about Masterson. This is about Kutcher’s support for him. If I have a friend that turns out to be a rapist, that’s not a friend. That’s someone hiding an important, deal breaking secret. If you’ve hidden that from me, I’m not going to tell a judge you’re an otherwise good person that shouldn’t be punished accordingly. If I kept that person as a friend after their rapist nature is revealed, that speaks very poorly on my judgement.
If you really don’t believe that these are people that did something wrong, that they should be shunned for the rest of their days by every living being, where’s the virtue in even keeping a felon alive? Why don’t we just have a door to a firepit in every jury courtroom that opens upon a guilty Verdict? Why pretend to weigh punishment with mercy, but still set them up for failure in every possible way?
Honest question, do we want to be a benevolent society that sees a fallen member, and wants to help them reintegrate after their just punishment, or is mercy as a positive thing in our society as stone dead a concept as greed being a negative thing?
Not writing a letter asking for leniency is not shunning as well as is not vengeance.
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For just about any other crime I’d tend to agree with the sentiment, but for nearly any other crime I can come up with some hypothetical scenario where that crime is justifiable, where I can comprehend the reasoning behind the act.
I can’t come up with any hypothetical where rape or sexual assault is justifiable.
It’s never justifiable, agreed, but I disagree that it cannot be understood or that the victimizer deserves special worse punishment or consideration. Before we tested for people on the spectrum, people that legitimately lacked the capacity of impulse control were executed like anyone else. Now courts bicker about how low functioning you have to be for such things.
Some people are born very low functioning and never get diagnosed, or throttle that line, and weren’t raised well, etc. Americans in general often refuse to see such nuance in such cases. They prefer to imagine a fair black and white world where every rapist is some evil mastermind when often they aren’t in control of themselves any of the time. It’s not like our mental healthcare system is robust enough to identify and mitigate those issues for poor kids who need it.
I’m sure there are regular and high functioning rapists, like Weinstein and statutory rapists, but I rarely see a differentiation between those calculated actors and some barely sapient person with sporatic impulse control who really doesn’t have the capacity to empathize with their victim or consider the consequences, but squeaked by on the mental competence review. Those are worlds apart imho and should be treated as such.
Im just boggled at the mind at how concerned you are for the mechanics of rapists and how there’s something that makes them rape people and don’t seem to be at all concerned with the effects they have on those they raped.
I see this whole devils advocate thing and like whatever this is internet share your peace, but I just can’t understand how lacking empathy for the people you hurt in any way should lessen the consequences of the impact you cause. Context does not excuse consequences. I’m sure Masterson is sick in the head, you’d have to be to rape someone as maliciously, viciously, and violently as he did. I just hope you’re also out here advocating for more support to the victims who are now also sick from the trauma that was directly caused by this man’s actions.
Sure, let someone who according to you can’t control themselves back on the street and give him a lighter sentence. I’m sure he won’t go out and rape again since his lack of control apparently stops once he’s caught and convicted. We should just wait to see if he does it again and say “ooops, his bad let’s try another 5 years” to his next victim and send her off with hopefully a good ass therapist for the rest of her life since that’s how long the rape is going to affect her.
You talk about society lacking nuance but your nuance seems to extend only to the rapist and his buddies. They were not advocating for him to be rehabilitated. They were asking for him to get less time since “his daughter not having a father” would be an injustice. Sure, he’s been convicted of rape, but the injustice of the law here would be his daughter visiting him in jail where he’s not raping people. Now if Kutcher was like “he’s clearly sick, I hope you find an alternative to prison that helps rehabilitate him so he won’t harm others” I could see your point. That’s not what he said. That’s not what he was asking for. People are angry because it’s enraging to see celebrities and rich people get special treatment. Use each other’s fame to hurt others and escape consequences. Your worry about a lack of nunca is funnily enough so black and white in its arguments, you could say it in and of itself lacks nuance to how complicated the subject and ramifications of rape on a person actually are.
Dammit, now I’m about to go down the rabbit hole after watching that video, so thanks
Oh wow, sounds like he freaked out and confided with Masterson that night. Interesting context in light of this character letter controversy and as far as their relationship goes.
I mean… He tocuhed a door knob and didn’t know it was a crime scene to report.
You were there?
I was there as much as the guy who said he didn’t report a crime was.
Is that quote taken directly out of his letter supporting his rapist buddy?
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The judge misspelled “Actual Rapist Allen Turner, formerly known as Brock Turner”
Tell your friends! He’s going by his middle name now
So it’s ok that he rapes people? Vomit
Of course not. You know that, I know that, everyone reading this knows that, you are just being a troll. Stop, or get blocked.
Oh ok. Then what point are you trying to make? It’s not ok for him to rape people but you won’t judge him for it? Got it.
I think one of you is talking about Masterson and the other is talking about Kutcher.
Get out of here with your reason. That’s not what the internet is for. Now, would you like a torch or pitchfork?
That was reasonable? They didn’t even respond to my comment but instead just gave a boilerplate enlightened centrist response which is meaningless.
Any way we can combine the two and make a flaming pitchfork? Maybe a knife-wrench kinda configuration?
Johnson, give this man a promotion
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I prefer the tar and feathers.
Can I try that forktorch that’s behind the counter?
I’ll need to see some ID.
Damn it jerkface, I told you not to go handing out the forktorch. I don’t care that you asked for id, the forktorch is for VIP ragers only.
I’ve got four stamps on my Valued Customer card! This is ridiculous. I need to speak to your manager now!
I’ll take the Torchfork
Cooks your food while you’re eating it!
If that isn’t already the name of some obscure software or package/library/etc I’ll be disappointed it already sounds like I need to import it into my Python code idk what it does but without it shit just crashes
The Torchfork really ties the program together
https://pytorch.org/docs/stable/generated/torch.jit.fork.html
I’m not a coder, but I found this in like, 5 seconds.
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OK, now think of this from the perspective of the victims of Danny Masterson’s crimes - what do you think they feel about Ashton’s letter of support?
That we can say Kutcher was wrong for supporting Masterson while also acknowledging that Kutcher has done good things. People aren’t good or bad, they are a mixture. Condemn the bad traits and praise the good traits.
Turns out that being against rape in 99.9% of cases isn’t good enough.
Correct.
Wow, there a a lot of people here defending a rapist apologist.
Disappointing.
People are complicated. We can say he did good things for kids while also doing bad things like defending Masterson. We can admit it must be hard for him to condemn his friend while also still saying he still needed to.
People can do both good and bad things, we can say the good things he did are good while also saying he shouldn’t have done bad things.
He could have not written a letter of support or condemnation. Sometimes no comment is the right way.
*Topher Grace has entered the chat
I thought he kicked himself from the server though?
People like you are not good for my pitchfork and torch business.
Did he actually do good though? Or did you assume?
Whether you like it or not Kutchers childrens charities do in fact help kids. Their software helps identify children who are being abused online and also help create tools to detect and block CSAM. But don’t take my word for it, here’s their 2022 impact report. https://www.thorn.org/impact-report-2022/
So yes. Turns out he’s not literal Satan and he has done good things and bad.
But don’t take my word for it, here’s their 2022 impact report. https://www.thorn.org/impact-report-2022/
“…but don’t take my word for it… Take theirs!”
Funny
Got it, so nothing I say is convincing. So there’s no need to continue this.
I mean I feel one thing overweights the other… Like it was a fucking piece of paper…yeah he shouldn’t have done it. But I feel like whatever the org did matter more that a stupid written paper.
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Exactly this. There was some good coverage in the German podcast Logbuch Netzpolitik. Ashton is also involved in companies selling software to “solve” the CSAM issue with methods the scientific community says will not solve it and most likely will make everything worse, not only in the topic but also others like privacy overall.
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Fuck websites that make the video follow you while you scroll.
Thanks for saving me a click bud
Just for that I’m giving them an anti-click!
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People need to “lighten the fuck up” about rape?!
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People also need to not support rapists. I mean, give him.support as a friend while clearly letting him know he was wrong. But, to try to ask for leniency minimizes the rapist actions, ignoring the victims.
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A charitable man. Good man is in question. People are complex. Nobody is all good or all bad. That’s children’s stories. He likely say the good in his friend. But his friend did evil things that hurt multiple people.
No good and charitable man has stepped down.
a good and charitable man
Was he though? I don’t know anything about him, nor do I have strong feelings about his letter because I know there’s a chance he was threatened by the most dangerous and litigious cult on the planet to write it.
I’m sure if he’s truly good and charitable as you say, that he will be free to continue those habits without bringing unnecessary controversy to an anti-sex abuse organization of all things. His letter directly opposes what such an organization stands for.
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I specifically stated that I’m not casting judgement on him.
I think it’s quite clear if this passes the BS test or not by simply asking what do you think his organization that he’s the front man in the eye had been approached by the 2 women(possibly more) Masterson raped to help them? Do you think he would of helped them prosecute Masterson based on his letter?
I don’t know much about the case. What was the proof used to convict Danny Masterson?
Enough to convince a jury of his peers. Good enough for me.
