So Trump is telling ICE to break the law? It looks like Trump is guilty of another crime.
Who’s gonna fuckin stop em??
They just arrested a judge. The only people who’ve been able to slow this roll.
What do you think happens next…?
The entire Armed Forces and Judicial Branch of the Executive is cronies from the Cabinet and AG down. If they feel like it they’ll mobilize militias to do their work for them.
Citizen cops. Watch out. You may not hate cops now, but you’ll understand what’s been wrong with the whole system real soon. “Good cops” will be placeholders for men favorable to the regime. They will be corrupted.
Bribes will become commonplace in day-to-day business. This will often feel counterproductive. That’s because it is.
Odds are this will play out quietly. Unless the Military does a surprise one, the Democrats aren’t putting forward anything capable of challenging the regime. Sorry AOC and Bernie, I love you but Coachella ain’t gonna cut it.
Build federated networks in your own life. The model applies. Organize horizontally not vertically/hierarchically. Find people making choices and doing things and help them.
Added predictions: the US invades Panama (again). Ukraine drags out. Recession settles in, staved off by markets hungry for short-term gains looted from Latin America, Ukraine, probably both. Probably around September a major bubble pops in the US stock market no matter what the tariff situation ends up being. Things get worse. Edit: Panama invasion may come as a result of this
So far breaking the law hasn’t bit him yet. Why should he start following it now?
Susan Collins just called: said he learned his lesson and it won’t happen again.
Fuck that bitch. Was the most laughably idiotic comment she could’ve made.
It’s only a crime if you are pursued for it. Until that happens, which it won’t, the law doesn’t matter.
Aren’t police and laws great? They do a wonderful job.
It’s not a crime if there’s nobody left to uphold the law.
He has a power to pardon them all
This is the actual reason why there is a 2nd amendment
They believe the constitution should be interpreted to uphold the will of a leader/law and order over liberty of the people.
I’m not saying I disagree with you, just telling you what the legal argument will likely be when they arrest people or return force when people try to defend their home.
That argument JD Vance made about judges not having the authority to rule against executive decision is not his original argument. Adrian Vermeule is a Harvard constitutional law professor who has been making the argument favoring unchecked executive authority over all other government and executive power over liberty for a very long time.
Let’s fuck 'em up then.
Law and order? What are you smoking?
Following his orders = the law. He makes up the law, follow his orders.
That’s what dictators do.
Trump has always described himself as the law and order president
The argument of ivy league legal scholars that are helping run his administration is that the people elected the president. The president’s duty is to do what he believes is best to protect the greatest number of people.
If Trump says that this is law now, and this law is necessary to protect the country, then individual liberty and rights will have to be secondary for the good of the country
The Harvard constitutional law professor that created this legal theory is a huge fan of Carl Schmitt.
Schmitt created the Nazi legal agenda using a similar legal argument which argued the will of the leader should be placed above all written law because it was best for Germany, making the German constitution basically useless.
This allowed Hitler to legally carry out genocide.
Thank you for explaining, and yes, I get all of that about how Trump and his intellectuals are claiming to be about law and order. My point was a more simple one: it can’t be about law and order if the president is above the law. Maybe we could use the term “order and law” instead, since they’re subjecting the law to the hierarchy of political power.
Such executive supremacy would really only work if the Leader is infallible, and only a simpleton would think such a person exists.
Many people find comfort in authoritarian personalities.
It’s also possible if you’re just willing to stop paying attention, and believe the people in power are doing what’s best for you. Trust them 😉
Like I said, simpletons.
If you thought overmilitarization of local police was bad, just wait until ICE gets tanks.
Yes, I understand that the 2nd amendment alone can’t stop a dictator if they have the army on their side… even though that was at least partly the intention when it was written
ICE is a criminal organization.
All cops are bastards and most are working with them
There are some within ice who were reshuffled as punishment for Jan 6 investigations when Trump took over. They have been leaking information about what was going on to the press, and facing threats from the administration
I’m guessing we wouldn’t even know about this memo if not for people like this. I bring this up bc it’s important to keep in mind that if Congress will not act (which it seems like they won’t) we will be relying on the agents who are not loyalists, refusing to carry out orders.
If public opinion does not support agents who take a stand and refuse orders (not the loyalists, fuck them without a doubt) and have been leaking information like this memo, Trump will have ammunition that he can use to kill dissent and show other ice employees it’s in their best interest to carry out orders because the public is not on their side.
This is likely why he’s trying to reshuffle as many agents and even city police to get involved in immigration policy.
I voted for the current sheriff of my parish. First time I was ever passionate about voting for a sheriff because she was also a former police corruption monitor. She is now being taken to court by our state AG this Wednesday to force her to adopt federal immigration policy in her own jurisdiction.
If the judge agrees with the AG, which sadly, she probably will, the sheriff and local police will also be under legal orders to carry this shit out or face termination/possible jail time for interfering with immigration policy.
A Terrorist organization.
Easiest way to get shot.
And they will claim they are in their right to return force. Idk what to tell you. I agree this is fucked up and you should have a right to defend your home.
That is the most basic American shit. The people that are on the white house legal team agree with that unless it conflicts with executive authority. To me that seems like you might as well have a king at that point, but they believe that a leader is chosen to promote what is best for his people. Given he was elected to do that, law and order (which is up to the leaders interpretation) takes presedence over liberty.
Adrian Vermeule is a Harvard constitutional law professor who has been making the argument the constitution should be interpreted to favor executive authority and power over individual liberty for a very long time.
Let’s see how long it takes for an ICE goon to get the FAFO treatment.
If history is to judge, it takes about 10-15 years for fascism to die. There is usually a lot of bloodshed in the process.
This type of abuse is old as the hills. The rights enumerated in the constitution only apply to citizens. Look at how wiretapping is done among the “Five Eyes”. The USA just has allies do the snooping on its own citizens, conveniently dancing around the same constitutional protections. It’s unclear if even under the most charitable reading of the constitution if this should apply to an unlawful foreign resident of another country.
Cruel and unfair, definitely. Much like the electoral college, everyone likes to complain about it while not doing too much. If you find the above distasteful, then it should be made clear in US case law that aliens are eligible for constitutional protections. Until then, Trump and co. will gladly keep doing what they are doing, because they don’t care about “being fair”.
Bold assumption it won’t be citizens houses. Unachievable by a competent administrative.
Uuuuhhh t’s going to be citizens, how is this not obvious?
I don’t understand it, it’s like everybody sees what’s right in front of them, knows history and what the Nazis did and how they rose to power, how they maintained it, their goals
And then we see that they are also supporting Nazis and they published their plan online, and people are still doubting how far this will go?
We literally have concentration camps in America, tax-funded. And we sent people there to die without due process
This is just one more step of power that they have, they’re going to be able to come after citizens and do that too. They’re coming after Free press right now, and they’re arresting judges.
Nobody is immune. You can be the perfect white citizen and if they disapprove of you, I don’t think there’s much stopping them.
Course they don’t even have to do any of those things, they can just tweet about you or mention you and destroy your entire reputation and career and livelihood by making up lies
the people who follow his unlawful unconstitutional orders need to be held accountable for their actions when the next adminstration HAS to clean up this administrations messes.
I know most people on Lemmy are already aware of this, but I’m wondering if anyone who still doesn’t think it will effect U.S. citizens (whatever that even means anymore) realize that DHS is also trying to dismantle their civil rights offices.
They are claiming it is because the offices keep getting in the way of their immigration practices, but only 2 of the 3 offices have to do with immigration.
They 3rd is the office of Civil Rights and Civil Liberties. It doesn’t matter if you believe you’re the “right kind of American,” or you can argue that you can trace your family to the Mayflower. This is who ensures you have civil rights and civil liberties while dealing with DHS. If you or a loved one end up in DHS custody for some reason and need to use FOIA to prove it happened, this is the office you would rely on.
The people that handle domestic security for the country want to get rid of the office that protects the rights of Americans. Meanwhile, they have also signed this memo saying they no longer need a warrant to search people’s homes if they suspect there might be an immigrant hiding in your home bc those immigrants might be terrorists.
Again, if you’re thinking well I’m not hiding immigrants, it really doesn’t matter.
Maybe one of your neighbors reported you were to fuck with you. Maybe you pissed off the wrong DHS agent or other government employee and you’re being targeted.
The point is, if you’re not concerned because you think it won’t effect you, your ancestors that “came here legally” to escape tyranny would think you’re either stupid, delusional, or simply choosing to be in complete denial of reality.
Maybe one of your neighbors reported you were to fuck with you. Maybe you pissed off the wrong DHS agent or other government employee and you’re being targeted.
This is exactly what happened during the French Reign of Terror, the Salem Witch Trials, and countless other times throughout history. It’s happened before, and it will happen again. If someone doesn’t like you for whatever reason, they would now have a way to get rid of you, just by using one accusation, regardless of whether it’s true or not.
This shit is so similar to the reign of terror and other failed authoritarian playbooks, I’ve honestly wondered if they’re just feeding AI historical data to come up with plans that avoid the pitfalls of previous dictators.
Like they don’t comprehend that dictatorships will always inevitably fail because people have an innate desire/drive to be free from oppression and tyranny. Not because dictator X did Y instead of Z, so maybe if they combine dictator X’s strategy with dictators A and B, it might just work this time!
Yeah this is serious authoritarian secret police 101
They just defanged Congress and the Judicial, now they don’t need judges at all unless they want em. This seals the coup
Yep.
This means the 4th Amendment is dead.
Oh, any LE agency wants to search your house? Your car?
Uh, hrm, which very vaguely suspected migrants live in your building, your neighborhood?
2 miles away? Whatever, close enough.
Ok, now you’ve got ICE at your door, on the flimsiest evidence, connected in the flimsiest way, to a person suspected on a different set of flimsy evidence…
… And they are just searching your place because random guy may have been in the area, might have burgled you, whatever, who cares, we’ve got a warrant, lots of guns, do not interfere with our investigation.
Hey ICE, if the President tells you to do something illegal, you don’t do it! You can still be held liable.
Is it really that hard to have ethics anymore?
ICE doesn’t care. They’re obviously enjoying being able to do what theyve been doing the past few months.
There are federal agents that have been reshuffled to ICE as punishment for the Jan 6 investigations, and have been accused of leaking information to the press.
I originally just thought the termination of civil rights offices would mainly be to use polygraphs on these employees and refuse due process rights because so many were trying to warn people of what this administration is doing.
I wasn’t expecting something like this memo so soon.
There are definitely plenty of loyalists carrying this shit out, but I believe the administration may be intentionally trying to reshuffle as many federal employees as possible (and now city police to ICE) to increase civil unrest and increase the chances the public will turn on the same people leaking information.
If Congress won’t do their job, it will come down to these people willing to refuse orders and face termination if not arrest. The only reason I bring this up, is that if this happens we should keep in mind that there have been people inside ICE trying to warn the country about this stuff for a long time.
If we are too quick to dismiss all of them as loyalists, the administration will be able to downplay any dissent when orders are refused, and possibly convince others who are on the fence that it’s in their best interest to comply bc the public is not on their side.
The things is based on their legal interpretation of the constitution, the people chose the president to uphold law and order and do what’s best for the people. If the president determines this is what is necessary in order to protect the people from terrorists, his legal team will argue for a constitutional interpretation that says individual liberty is always secondary to the common good.
Just to be clear, this is not what I believe or support. This is what they will argue. I am writing this to try and warn people what they have in mind when they talk about constitutional interpretation
the supreme court gets to decide this. And considering some of the recent rulings about due process, I am hopeful.
But how are they going to enforce it? They’ve enforced 0 rulings so far. Trump has been publicly mocking them while defying their orders
I am hopeful if it does, but the memo is saying they can just do this. So it will take this actually being enforced and someone’s (or multiple people’s) rights being violated for this to end up before the supreme court.
I think it’s no coincidence there was such a high profile arrest of that judge in Wisconsin just before this happened.
Right, and history shows that these are major mistakes that always have consequences.
I hope so. If the Senate and representatives won’t take a stand (which seems they won’t), it will be up to police, federal agents, and military leaders taking a stand and refusing orders, probably being terminated if not jailed/court martialed, and public support for them.
It sounds like we should prepare for a rash of home invasion shootings. (I’m not promoting anything, just saying)
Yeah, there’s already a video of them doing this.
Welcome to the New United States of America, where the Contitution is no longer valid where contradicting King Trump.
Leela: You’ll never pardon anybody because you’ll never get elected president. The voters of Earth aren’t the pea-brained idiots they were back in your time.
Nixon: Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973 but your average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who’s changed is me. I’ve become bitter and, let’s face it, crazy over the years. And once I’m swept into office, I’ll sell our children’s organs to zoos for meat and I’ll go into people’s houses at night and wreck up the place.
I think about this quote daily as I read the news.
Yet nixons head still seems less insane then trump
In a more just world, our local police forces would stop this illegal activity.
That’s probably why states are trying to force local police to take on the role of ICE.
My city has what the governor and AG are calling “sanctuary city policy.”
Really the sheriff has just said they do not take a stance, but they don’t have the resources to handle the immigration responsibility the state wants them to take on. So the AG is wasting tax dollars bringing them to court this Wednesday to try and force the community to adopt federal policy.
How bout that small government and fiscal responsibility?
Our local cops owe their authority to the State
I have a hard time imagining a world with cops at all that don’t end up doing this
They are supposed to have some freedom from the state within their own city/county jurisdiction, but small government loving members of the GOP are trying to do away with that and force cities and counties to adopt state policy(which is often just federal policy).
My state AG is taking my parish to court over it this Wednesday
If you heard about the 2 year old that was just deported by ICE last week, that was also my state/parish.
I mean they already are. They’ve been doing this since March.
The only reason we know is because one of the many employees within ICE who have been leaking information to the press in the hopes we would pressure congress to do their jobs, also leaked this.
If you know anyone in the conservative camp that’s still blissfully unaware/not pissed yet, loop them in. Their voices are the most important when it comes to giving Congress one last try while they’re still collecting paychecks paid for by our tax dollars.
If it comes down to us fighting we will have to join together anyway if we stand any chance. The next civil war will not be left vs right, it will be Americans refusing to follow orders vs. corporate billionaires controlling both public and private military (Blackwater, Palantir, etc.).
