- cross-posted to:
- programmerhumor@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- programmerhumor@lemmy.ml
I have mixed feelings about that company. They have some interesting things “going against the flow” like ditching the cloud and going back to on prem, hating on microservices, advocating against taking money from VCs, and now hiring juniors. On the other hand, the guy is a Musk fanboy and they push some anti-DEI bullshit. Also he’s a TypeScript hater for some reason…
it’s funny that some people think programming has a human element that can’t be replaced but art doesn’t.
Computer programs need lots of separate pieces to operate together in subtle ways or your program crashes. With art on the other hand I haven’t heard of anyone’s brain crashing when they looked at AI art with too many fingers.
It’s not so much that AI can’t do it, but the LLMs we have now certainly can’t.
i agree llms can’t do shit right now, what I was talking about was a hypothetical future in which somehow these useless techbros found a way to make them worth a shit. they certainly would be able to make a logical program work than infuse any artistic value into any audio or image.
programs can be written to respond to a need that can be detected and analyzed and solved by a fairly advanced computer. art needs intent, a desire to create art, whether to convey feelings, or to make a statement, or just ask questions. programs can’t want, feel or wonder about things. they can pretend to do so but we all know pretending isn’t highly valued in art.
I get the idea that it’s only temporary, but I’d much rather have a current gen AI paint a picture than attempt to program a guidance system or a heart monitor
deleted by creator
por que no los fucking neither, is what i think.
AAA gamedev here. Had a guy scream at me on here on a different account for several days straight last week that “AI will eventually take your job, too, just wait and see” after I told the guy “all you have to do as an artist is make better quality work than AI slop can produce, which is easy for most professionals; AI is still useful in production pipelines to speed up efficiency, but it will never replace human intuition because it can’t actually reason and doesn’t have feelings, which is all art is and is what programming requires”.
Got told that I was a naive and bad person with survivorship bias and hubris who doesn’t understand the plight of artists and will eventually also be replaced, as if I’m not a technical artist myself and don’t work with plenty of other artistic and technical disciplines every single day. Like, okay, dude. I guess nearly a decade of senior-level experience means nothing. I swear, my team had tried and tossed away anywhere from 5 to 10 potential “cutting-edge AI production tools” before the general public had even heard about ChatGPT because most of them have such strict limited use-cases that they aren’t practically applicable to most things, but the guy was convinced that we had to boycott and destroy all AI tools because every artist was gonna be out of a job soon. Lol. Lmao, even.
it’s just people with no skills and all resentment.
Yep.
Just checked and the mods removed all my comments in that convo, but left the other guy’s up, despite me providing objective evidence and research (from Harvard, no less). The annoying social media circlejerk from resentful losers is so real.
Art doesn’t have to fulfill a practical purpose nor does it usually have security vulnerabilities. Not taking a position on the substance, but these are two major differences between the two.
my point exactly. practical purpose and security are things you can analyze and solve for as a machine at least in theory. artistic value comes from the artistic intent. by intent I don’t mean to argue against death of the author, as I believe in it, but the very fact that there is intent to create art.
Art fulfills many practical purposes. You live in an abode designed by architects, presumably painted and furnished with many objects d’art such as, a couch, a wardrobe, ceiling fixtures, a bathtub; also presumably festooned with art on the walls; you cook and eat food in designed cookware, crockery and cutlery, and that food is frequently more than pure sustenance; and, presumably you spend a fair amount of time consuming media such as television, film, literature, music, comedy, dance, or even porn.
Art can be flawed. Programming is an exact set of instructions for a computer to comprehend in the most literal sense. There isn’t nearly as much room for errors. A hallucination during image generation won’t cause any damage. A hallucination regarding those very specific instructions can cause problems.
Programming is definitely not an exact science.
Armchair amateur here but there’s often a lot of talk about O(n), memory optimization, trash cleanup, compression methods, race conditions, vertex choice in matrices etc…
It reminds me of the neo-plasticists, whose argument was there is no significant difference between painting a farmer next to a pile of hay vs painting a pink square next to a yellow square: both are just arranging representative symbols on a canvas.
Yeah but what about those 18 toed porn girls with stumpy legs?
Yeah DHH is a problematic person to root for.
THAT is the message you took from all this? What you’re going to root for the smug ignorant asshole?
I’m a software engineer, and I hate AI. DHH is a smug ignorant asshole, but I will always root against AI.
Personally I prefer my junior programmers well done.
As long as they keep the rainbow 🌈 socks on, I’ll eat them raw.
Thank you for your opinion.
Anyway.
You can say “fucked” on the internet, Ace Rbk.
Oh no, he’s a cannibal.
It’s better to future-proof your account for when Gilead is claimed.
Other industries… ?
As an end user with little knowledge about programming, I’ve seen how hard it is for programmers to get things working well many times over the years. AI as a time saver for certain simple tasks, sure, but no way in hell they’ll be replacing humans in my lifetime.
Co"worker" spent 7 weeks building a simple C# MVC app with ChatGPT
I think I don’t have to tell you how it went. Lets just say I spent more time debugging “his” code than mine.
I do enjoy the new assistant in JetBrains tools, the one that runs locally. It truly helps with the trite shit 90% of the time. Every time I tried code gen AI for larger parts, it’s been unusable.
It works quite nice as autocomplete
Yes, exactly.
Except in the 10% of times, in 30% of those you’ll have a hell of a lot of fun finding which exact line has one little variable name mismatch. But if you’re actually very careful, it’s a nice feature.
I will be downvoted to oblivion, but hear me out: local llm’s isn’t that bad for simple scripts development. NDA? No problem, that a local instance. No coding experience? No problems either, QWQ can create and debug whole thing. Yeah, it’s “better” to do it yourself, learn code and everything. But I’m simple tech support. I have no clue how code works (that kinda a lie, but you got the idea), nor do I paid to for that. But I do need to sort 500 users pulled from database via corp endpoint, that what I paid for. And I have to decide if I want to do that manually, or via script that llm created in less than ~5 minutes. Cause at the end of the day, I will be paid same amount of money.
It even can create simple gui with Qt on top of that script, isn’t that just awesome?
As someone who somewhat recently wasted 5 hours debugging a “simple” bash script that Cursor shit out which was exploding k8s nodes—nah, I’ll pass. I rewrote the script from scratch in 45 minutes after I figured out what was wrong. You do you, but I don’t let LLMs near my software.
I’ve had success with Claude, but there’s always a layer of separation. I ask it to do something, read what it produced, and decide if it’s garbage or not. And rewrite or discard as necessary. Though counting by LOC mainly I’ve used it for writing tests.
I tried out the new copilot agent in VSCode and I spent more time undoing shit and hand holding than it would have taken to do it myself
Things like asking it to make a directory matching a filename, then move the file in and append _v1 would result in files named simply “_v1” (this was a user case where we need legacy logic and new logic simultaneously for a lift and shift).
When it was done I realized instead of moving the file it rewrote all the code in the file as well, adding several bugs.
Granted I didn’t check the diffs thoroughly, so I don’t know when that happened and I just reset my repo back a few cookies and redid the work in a couple minutes.
I will give it this. It’s been actually pretty helpful in me learning a new language because what I’ll do is that I’ll grab an example of something in working code that’s kind of what I want, I’ll say “This, but do X” then when the output doesn’t work, I study the differences between the chatGPT output & the example code to learn why it doesn’t work.
It’s a weird learning tool but it works for me.
It’s great for explaining snippets of code.
I’ve also found it very helpful with configuration files. It tells me how someone familiar with the tool would expect it to work. I’ve found it’s rarely right, but it can get me to something reasonable and then I can drill into why it doesn’t work.
Yes, and I think this is how it should be looked at. It is a hyper focused and tailored search engine. It can provide info, but the “doing” not as well.
“Programmers are cooked,” he says in reply to a post offering six figures for a programmer
six figures for a junior programmer, no less
I almost added that, but I’ll be real, I have no clue what a junior programmer is lmao
For all I know it’s the equivalent to a journeyman or something
Most programmers don’t go on many journeys, it’s more like a basementman.
Hey I resemble that remark
Junior programmer is who trains the interns and manages the actual work the seniors take credit for.
This is not true. A junior programmer takes the systems that are designed by the senior and staff level engineers and writes the code for them. If you think the code is the work, then you’re mistaken. Writing code is the easy part. Designing systems is the part that takes decades to master.
That’s why when Elon Musk was spewing nonsense about Twitter’s tech stack, I knew he was a moron. He was speaking like a junior programmer who had just been put in charge of the company.
I thought Junior just meant they only had 3 or 4 pair of programming socks.
I was gonna say, if this person is making $145k, they are not a “junior” in any realistic sense of the term. It would be nice if computer programming and software development became a legitimate profession.
People who think AI will replace X job either don’t understand X job or don’t understand AI.
Yeah, particularly with CEOs. People don’t understand that in an established company (not a young startup), the primary role of the CEO is to take blame for unpopular decisions and resign or be fired so it would seem like the company is changing course.
Ha I never thought of CEOs this way but now so many things make sense. Especially things being exactly as they were when CEOs change, but with a mountain of meaningless changes that never do any good.
Not that I ever thought they know what they were doing, but now I get what they’re used for.
Yup. It’s kinda my conspiracy theory, but also, it’s really not, it’s like a public secret at this point.
They don’t get these huuuuge golden parachutes for nothing. They get it precisely because they need to take the fall at some point, and if the fall is big enough, they might not even get a new job at a similar level.
It’s a disgusting system, but I’m not trying to absolve CEOs of anything here. They very much know what they’re getting into when they sign contracts for tens of millions per year in total comp, with generous exit packages. I’m just saying that’s why companies won’t replace them with AI, or even just cheaper proven leaders, any time soon, despite the fact that no CEO is worth the amount of money they make, in actual productivity.
Their only mistake is believing they make a positive change lol
It’s both.
This is the correct answer.
For basically everyone at least 9 in 10 people you know are… bless their hearts…not winning a nobel prize any time soon.
My wife works a people-facing job, and I could never do it. Most people don’t understand most things. That’s not to say most people don’t know anything, but there are not a lot of polymaths out and about.
Everyone’s convinced their thing is special, but everyone else’s is a done deal.
Meanwhile the only task where current AI seems truly competitive is porn.
They’re about 2% better at being a telephone IVR than the older ones, probably at 6x the power cost.
False. Porn is sexy, and I can’t possibly be aroused by an image of a woman spreading her cheeks when her fingers are attached to her arse with a continuous piece of flesh, giving her skin the same topography as a teapot.
Damning comments from 2023.
I’ll stop saying it if it stops being true.
I absolutely hate this, thanks
Everyone’s convinced their thing is special, but everyone else’s is a done deal.
I’m sad it makes me sound like such a pie-in-the-sky hippie when I say I think everyone’s contributions are not just special, but essential, and that’s why this whole mentality pisses me off so much, especially in the indie space.
- Artists are like “Finally, I can have Ai do my code! But good art takes a special touch.”
- Coders are like “Finally, I can have Ai do my art! But good code takes a special touch.”
- “Idea Guys”, who never learned anything but want to make a game because they like playing them, are leading the charge. They’re so excited to put everyone who makes those games out of a job because they think they’ll finally get to “achieve their dreams” with freaking prompts.
But for the people who do the work, why the heck are skilled artisans so ready to sell out their comrades? This “highly competitive” nonsense, and one-great-glorious-man myth has simply turned us on each other, when the people with pointless bullshit jobs are somehow still employed, simply serving to harass and bother the people getting things done.
Meanwhile the only task where current AI seems truly competitive is porn.
Well it sure has a heckuva data set from every possible angle and lighting setup, doesn’t it? 😬 Lol
AI is really good at creating images of Jesus that boomers say “amen” to.
So is toast.
I’d suggest that if you think AI porn is anywhere near the real thing, that’s probably because you think porn is already slop in the same way that these AI bros think of code or creative writing or whatever other information-based thing you already know AI can’t do well.
Porn isn’t slop, people aren’t just interestingly-shaped slabs of meat. Sex is fundamentally about interpersonal connection. It might be one of the things that LLMs and robots are the worst at.
Not everyone is there for the interpersonal connection. Some really are just that base and pathetic.
Having said that, seeking personal connection (or just sex) is a mistake in this age. Best to learn to let go, and get used to suffering.
Most porn is definitely slop.
Most commercially produced media is slop. Porn isn’t special in that regard.
That doesn’t mean porn is somehow specially devoid of artistic merit. Done well it can be beautiful and meaningful.
You’ve got a stereotype in your head that was put there by a misogynistic culture, but that’s not inherent to the genre.
Wanking is about the emotional connection to a JPG, said someone I deeply pity.
Who wouldn’t pity those who make do with a lossy compression image format?
I do not need lossless copies of an image someone didn’t even draw.
Who was that? I said sex is about interpersonal connection. I didn’t learn that from porn, I learned it from sex.
I trusted the audience to understand that good porn or erotica in general should be about portraying that connection in some form, which is what is actually hot about sex, but maybe I gave you too much credit.
But hey, if sexuality to you is really that shallow, you’re free to pity me, because I put absolutely no stock in your opinion.
We’re still far away from Al replacing programmers. Replacing other industries, sure.
Right, it’s the others that are cooked.
Fake review writers are hopefully retraining for in-person scams.
The day that AI can program perfectly is the day it can improve the itself perfectly and it’s the day that we’ll all be fucked.
I personally vote for some sort of direct brain interface (no Elmo, you’re not allowed to play) that DOES allow direct recall of queries but does NOT allow ads ffs) that allows us to grow with AI in intelligence. If you can’t beat em (we can’t), join em.
I highly doubt some of these rich fucks would pass up an opportunity to put ads straight into people’s brains.
Doubt? I’m sure they will try. That’s why, fuck closed source software
I work in QA, even devs who’ve worked for 10+ years make dumb mistakes every so often. I wouldn’t want to do QA when AI is writing the software, it’s just gonna give me even more work 🫠
even devs who’ve worked for 10+ years make dumb mistakes
everyso, so often.there, I fixed it for you
I’m a senior developer and I sometimes even look back thinking “how the fuck did I make that mistake yesterday”. I know I’m blind to my own mistakes, so I know testers may have some really valid feedback when I think I did everything right :)
That’s what we’re for in the end