Summary
A German tourist was arrested and attacked after climbing the Temple of Kukulcan at Chichen Itza, Mexico, during the spring equinox.
Video footage shows locals shouting insults and physically confronting the man as National Guard personnel detained him.
The temple, a UNESCO World Heritage site and one of the New Seven Wonders of the World, is off-limits to climbers due to preservation laws and safety concerns.
Violators face fines up to $16,000 and possible prison time.
The incident occurred amid a crowd of 8,000–9,000 visitors.
I wish more people got their asses kicked for violating historic places and things.
Or, really, any stupid shit when visiting somewhere. I’d have loved it if that “influencer” that yoinked that wombat got flogged in the public square like she deserved.
Remember how a bunch of pissants from LA were damaging and even killing Joshua trees? I do, the trees still hunger for profligate blood.
Hang on. What?! I have to look this up now.
Edit: I am so pissed now. Glad she’s left.
Abso fucking lately.
8,000 and 9,000 people were visiting the temple at the time
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⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿⣿Archen used karma. It was super effective.
Its just like strippers. You can see, but never touch or you’ll regert it for your next tattoo. No regerts!
Stripers! Things that stripe!
No regerts man
I climbed that pyramid forever ago when it was still legal to do so.
Tons of people were going up & down. I didn’t realize things had changed and that it was also on the list of “new” 7 wonders of the world.
It was a bitch coming down though because it’s so steep.
Anyway, dude should have known better.
I climbed the pyramid at Tulum in 1989. I hear its not allowed any more.
Yeah I was just thinking the same thing - it’s closed now?
All of these had to be closed off because jackasses who tried to take away a piece of the monument, or because they didn’t tread well and fell down.
Idiots.
Sounds like a cause for human sacrifice
Mayans usually only sacrificed nobility. This dude got a “von” in his name?
Mayans -o- French
I have trouble believing that, though. Usually, like everything in ancient religion, human sacrifice was nowhere near that standardised, and the Mayans also sacrificed animals. Wikipedia only mentions that they preferred to enslave non-noble prisoners of war,
If you study the classical Maya on a university level the experts do agree the Classical Maya preferred aristocrat blood, this is why they had many ceremonies for bloodletting that was a form of non fatal blood sacrifice. Also aristocratic families did have children they intend to sacrifice. War captives were always a big part of Mesoamerican culture, as you can see from the only surviving codexies, and from the surviving stories and culture still a part of Maya culture, but they culturally valued aristocrat blood as the main need of the Gods. It’s not a controversial or debated aspect of their culture.
Finding good up to date archeological information on the Classical Maya is not easy. Little work has been done all together, and you’re unlikely to find good resources on the internet without actually getting into a universities research libraries, and the pop culture view of Mesoamerica in the US is deeply racist, colonialist, and based on Eurocentric and Christian ways of seeing the world, few people are interested in facts over ‘‘they killed the winner after ball games’’ and ‘‘they sacrifice 500 infants to dedicate a temple’’. It’s shitty.
yeah, according to our mayan guide when i was there the human sacrifices never happened… but they were extremely inconsistent with their stories and also believed that the number of days in the solar year is connected with human body through the number of joints so i wouldn’t take their word for it.
when i was listening to what guides in other groups were telling about the same spots and traditions i noticed that each and every one of them had their own fantastic and completely different story and many of the things they were saying were clearly wrong (e.g. that the descent of kukulcan shadow play only happens on two particular days of the year).
Ending human sacrifice in many cultures can be seen in their more modern folklore, in the Bible people view ‘‘Moloc’’ as an evil god that children were sacrificed to. The reality is ‘‘Moloc’’ is the Hebrew word for sacrificing the first born child to Adonai. Once the practice was ended and seen as evil, it changed their stories.
the Maya creation myth in the 1500s had the hero twins tricking the death gods which allowed them to avoid human sacrifice, other cultures around the same time had versions where the hero twins obeyed the death gods without tricking them. So local stories from different groups will clue you in to how they view human sacrifice historically, if you understand the context of the stories.
You also have to keep in mind there’s no one Maya culture, it was always diverse city states Maya is more accurately a region than a people, they’re 20 some odd languages that all derived from the classical Maya spoken today in those lands, and still there are languages today that appear to not be derived from classical Maya, so there’s a lot more going on than one culture or history.
The powder keg situation the Spanish walked into in Tenochtitlan that allowed them to conquer the Mexica was due in part to clashing religious and cultural groups with in the Nahuatl speaking dominant groups, within the city were multiple ethnicities, languages, and cultures all coexisting, there simply isn’t one story and never will be.
There are descendants of Mexica and Maya that come from groups that didn’t do blood sacrifice, there’s groups where this was a very rare thing to do, and there’s motivations beyond what people accept, only recently are archeologists looking at temple grounds and finding remains there and realizing the remains of infants all have markers of illness or congenial problems that were likely fatal.
Imagine if a cathedral was discovered by an Asian archeologist who didn’t have information about the religious or cultural views of the people who used it, and finding an attached graveyard with the remains of hundreds of elderly and infant people decided that the cathedral was a place for the elderly and infants to fight to the death to amuse their evil Gods. After all they had human skeletons in armor with weapons on display and scary ugly monsters all around the outside, and cages at the top of the building with human remains on them.
It’s very easy to see other people’s culture as this extreme thing, when in reality we know some Maya city states only had fatal blood sacrifice very very rarely, or not at all, and that human remains near temples or in stone containers may not be from human sacrifice at all.
The report that thousands of people were continously killed this way came much more from the Spanish military and priests reports that were often justifications for brutal treatment or genocide, or simply culture shock. Keep in mind these same Spaniards lived in a time when torturing and killing Jews was commonplace, as well as burning women at the stake, burning Gay men to death, as well as public executions that could range from anything like drawing and quadering or boiling alive in water or oil, and impromptu killing of people on shackles if people in public pelted them hard enough with rocks or garbage, which were not even sure was historically the intent or accidental, and this includes killing children when witchcraft, or non Christian religions were involved.
They weren’t shocked about people being killed in elaborate religiously significant manners in public. They were shocked it was to give blood to a pantheon of gods, and that the person being killed wasn’t accused of anything or seen as evil or sinful enough to earn a death sentance.
Also as another interesting tidbit, Isabella, the Queen of Spain ordered Cortez to make contact and gather information and he was offically ordered to NOT conquer anyone, he made up those orders when he landed to seek his personal glory and wealth, the Spanish aristocracy of the day were against conquest and wanted to establish healthy trade routes, not colonize. At least not at first, and religiously, they wanted priests to preach in the Americas, and covert, but not with the sword, at least not specifically.
A lot of the atrocities committed by priests weren’t looked at as OK morally, and were not ordered to be done, but motivated by being able to report fast progress. They were looking for a shortcut home.
I was thinking mostly about human sacrifice in the European/Near Eastern world, actually. The Germans liked to kill people in swamps, for example, but there’s so much variation in the details. I’d love to comment on China, but I’ve had a hell of a time trying to find any useful English-language sources. I can’t even blame conquistadors for that one.
That’s kind of a clever little idea for the Mayan elites, when you think about it. Aristocrats kill each other all the time, so that’s not a problem, and now you’ve created a more tangible spiritual reason why only they can be in charge. With the bloodletting, you don’t even have to do the killing!
Good. That’s what they get for being a jackass.
What an idiot not only for potentially damaging an ancient pyramid but also because those stairs are only about 3" deep and it would be incredibly easy to come tumbling off that when coming back down. I scaled one that was maybe 10 feet tall outside Playa Del Carmen (not a perserved one but one you can climb on) and even that was terrifying to come down as a tall person.
I guess I’m glad my parents took me in the late 80’s/early 90’s when you were still allowed to climb it.
I keep meaning to get my mom to dig out the photos we took from the top.
I went in the late 70s and was even allowed to pick up antique shards (and take them with me all the way back to Germany … oh wait
I was lucky enough to go there when they still allowed people to go up the temple at Chichen Itza, and it was pretty cool, but I couldn’t image just climbing shit they tell you not to. Especially when the reasoning is protecting heritage.
Honestly, he’s lucky he didn’t trip on the way down. Those stairs are steep.
Wow, they made the temple in Forza Horizon 5 a real thing! How did the tourist get around the invisible walls though?
/s
E: fun fact actually, in the game it isn’t covered by an invisible cube, but rather a pyramid shape that starts at the X and Y of the temple corners but is about 1.5x the height of the temple. Strangely enough, other temples do use a cube/rectangle barrier that far exceeds the height of the asset it is protecting (mostly structures at Ek’ Balam). This suggests that this temple was unique and handled seperately, but the lower protection is really strange. Maybe just an oversight, maybe a requirement from Mexico officials, worried that the usual system wasn’t enough to keep players from messing with it - which, amusingly, allowed players to get above it, but other structures are immune.
A German tourist
Sorry for not sending out best. I hope the guys wore socks in sandals at least to properly represent our national outfit.
Every country has its idiots, but none moreso than America right now.
Not really, the thing with the US is just that it joined a long list of countries led by people who should be committed for their own good. The US is not unique really at this point.
US tourists have nothing on UK stag-doers. Those people are a plague.
I think someone mixed up this one and the other recently arrested legalized US german immigrant.
Perhaps a swap at the border would do the trick. 🤔
I’m only German by heritage, not citizenry… but goddamn do I love socks-n-'stocks, aka Birck-n-socks.
I used to work in a tourist area of CA, and most German tourists are very friendly and usually have a good dry humor, only ever had one be rude, but I think he was an offical going to the military base and not a tourist. He didn’t like me walking past the lobby in a restaurant he was waiting to be seated in, I don’t know how it is elsewhere, but when your picking up and paying for a to go order in the US, you don’t wait to be seated, you just go to the front of house area and pay, typically front of house worker or owners aren’t seating people unless it’s an incredibly slow.
You just happened to work in a tourist area that is above the budget of most of our worst offenders (sorry if this sounds classist, it’s absolutely not meant that way)
German tourists in Spanish resorts are the ones who will go out at night to put their towels on the pool chairs to reserve them for the next day, something which only ever works because other people are too polite to just thrown the towels away when they get there in the morning.
In my own experience living in a couple of countries in including big tourism destinations, people from bigger and wealthier countries have a bigger tendency to behave as entitled wankers who think that they own the place when out of their country than people from smaller or poorer countries, so in touristic places you get for example more Germans, Brits and Americans doing “I don’t care for others” stuff than say Dutch people or Greeks (whilst, curiously, in their own countries they tend not to behave like that, or at least not as overtly so).
Eh don’t feel too bad, death valley will consume 10 of your countrymen by the closing of summer. Seriously there’s running bets on my area about how many Germans will die and from what, safe bet is 5 from heatstroke.
It’s great that we’re enforcing laws that are there to protect our anthropological heritage. It’s not so great that it means this violator is attacked by the locals.
As an aide, I feel like Mexico themselves have quite a ways to go to protect the heritage site. The grounds of Chichen Itzá are absolutely overrun with “tour guides” telling dumbed down or outright fabricated stories and literally hundreds of souvenir stands with obnoxious sellers that don’t shy from any tactic to try to get your attention.
Walking around in that area should be serene, educational and immersive. Instead, it’s like being in a kindergarten, where hordes of salespeople are incessantly calling out to you (“where are you from, sir, where are you from?”), literally throwing cheap Chinese junk in your direction, playing drums and pan flutes or squeezing squeaky toys and gimmicks that are meant to sound like monkeys. It’s a cacophony of cheap garbage and harassment from locals (and nonstop clapping to hear the temple’s acoustic effect) that takes you out of experiencing your surroundings in an inkling of tranquility. In fact, only from specific angles is it even possible to capture a photo of the Temple of Kukulcán without the brightly colored eye sores of a hundred nearly identical souvenir stands visible directly adjacent to it.
Mexico should also take more pride in this site and treat Chichen Itzá with more respect.
Virtue signaling BS. That motherfucker deserves his ass to be beaten to shit
Honestly wish he fell from the top
Good grief, this is such a toxic community.
You can tell when someone never actually gets physical by the way they comment lol
No matter how much you try, Chichen Itzá will never be tranquil, it is visited by thousands of tourists every day, so it will always be crowded and full of voices.
Vendors are usually local indigenous people, and selling to tourists is their only source of income, it would be silly on their part not to take advantage of the situation.
Perhaps you’ve not visited this place, so for an impression: the area itself is very large and open and the site has restricted access with a fairly pricey admission fee.
Voices don’t carry very far in this environment, however the issue is that there are literally hundreds if not close to a thousand vendors literally screaming for attention. My objection is to the authorities who have permitted this kind of presence at a heritage site. Of course locals have taken advantage of the situation, that much is very clear.
I’ve been there many times.
“My objection is to the authorities who have permitted this kind of presence at a heritage site”
Not allowing them would wreck the local economy. It will not happen.
So that’s it? We concede that this is the acceptable way we as a species best want to present our anthropological heritage? Forgive my comments on how we can strive to do better.
If you want Chichen Itzá to turn into a quiet library it’s not going to happen.
It’s one of the seven wonders of the modern world, you have the same experience if you visit the Vatican or the pissa tower.
There are many other sites in Yucatan that don’t receive as many visitors like ek’ balam and mayapan. Those are usually less crowded.
I’m not sure why you’ve chosen to be obtuse and misinterpret my comments. I’ve not said that Chichen Itzá should become a library.
The Vatican and Pisa are actually terrific examples of sites that are not overrun with tour guide and market stand mafias running every tourist scam under the sun.
It’s not so great that it means this violator is attacked by the locals.
It’s not?
Not for me; I don’t endorse violence.
Good, now sacrifice him to whatever God they believe in
Fuck yes. Doesn’t matter if you’re a German tourist in Mexico, an American tourist in Japan, or a Chinese tourist at an American buffet— respect the local etiquette if you are going to travel.
