- cross-posted to:
- programmerhumor@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- programmerhumor@lemmy.ml
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Cheaper & faster development by leveraging large libraries/frameworks, but inability to automatically drop most unused parts of those libraries/frameworks. You could in theory shrink Electron way down by yoinking out tons of browser features you’re not using, but there’s not much incentive to do it and it’d potentially require a lot of engineering work.
64kb should be enough for anyone
is that the size of doom or something lol
Its a reference to an old he said she said quote attributed to bill gates from the 1990’s
“640K ought to be enough for anyone” — Bill Gate
Yeah, though the joke is funny, this is the real answer.
Storage is cheap compared to creating custom libraries.
Also the storage is the cost for the user, and google in the case of play store. So the developers have no incentive to reduce the size.
Storage is cheap on a PC, it’s not cheap on mobile where it’s fixed and used as a model differentiator. They overcharge you so much. Oh, and they removed SD card slots from nearly all phones.
Nah it’s fine. Clean up used apps every once in a while. Base phones have more than enough space.
Yep. Apps are 20x bigger with no new features…that you are using.
Let’s not forget that the graphics for applications has scaled with display resolution, and people generally demand a smooth modern look for their apps.
In the case of normal apps like PayPal graphics shouldn’t be a huge factor since it should be vectorized and there is pretty much no graphics in apps like PayPal.
The issue comes from frameworks.
Memory is cheap and data sells enough to many parties. Most apps are just store front for Ads and data collection.
No wonder why open source apps are quite light.
It’s just that we have to make space for our 5,358 partners and the telemetry data they need.
That still wouldn’t account for it. The code to collect this is tiny and the data isn’t stored locally. The whole point is for them to suck it up into their massive dataset.
* legitimate telemetry data
Legitimate interest to train AI
Let me (lemme?) translate this into customer-friendly business language:
Enhanced user experience
Electron everywhere.
And analytics. And offloading as much computation to the client, because servers are expensive and inefficiency is not an issue if your users are the ones paying for it.
I saw an ad request with an inline 1.4 MB game. Like, you could fit Mario in there.
The Samsung shop hands out 1.4mb JSON responses for order tracking, with what I estimate 99% redundant information that is repeated many times in different parts of the structure.
Web “Apps” are also quite bad. Lots of and lots of stuff we’re downloading and it feels clunky.
Sometimes that’s bad coding, poor optimization, third party libraries, or sometimes just including trackers/ads on the page.
Some devs will include a whole library for one thing instead of trying to learn another way to do that thing.
A whole library which was meant to to 10 things, but you only use one. And that for x libraries
from * import *Nowadays libraries are built with tree-shaking in mind, so when it’s time to deploy the app only the code that’s actually used gets bundled.
I vaguely recall a recent-ish article that an average web page is 30mb. That’s right, thirty megabytes.
It’s amazing how much faster web browsing becomes when I run PiHole and block most of it.
Suddenly the TV is pretty snappy, and all browsers feel so much smoother.
And I’m sitting here uneasy thinking how the hell I’m going to compress my map data any further so that my entire web app is no bigger than 2 mb. 😥
No, you need to go further: https://512kb.club/
Oh god, I’m not ready for the trauma and the emotional scars… D:
That’s straight up not true. It’s not even remotely close to that.
Paypal has 500 mb and just shows a number and you can press a button to send a number to their server.
It’s insane
You made me check it, and on my android device it’s 337 (just the app). Jesus Christ.
Mine has 660MB with 7MB user data, 15MB cache.
LMAO, he also made me check it.
347 MB for me, no wonder why I am always struggling with storage for my 128 GB phone (with not expandable storage of course), and I don’t even have that many games, even less ROMs 😅
Check out the apps Hermit and Native Alpha. They make web pages run like an app. I’ve only run into a couple sites where they don’t work right.
Dude!! What a badass concept, cannot wait to give this a shot!!
Native alpha sounds good since it’s foss and uses vanadium’s webview. Are you still logged in to paypal (any annoying website) a couple of months later. Or does it revoke your rights after a while?
I only use it rarely and I hate providing my info for 5 minutes just to do one transaction.
Has to send a number to Apple’s server too! actually not even sure if that’s client side.
Is this the appropriate point to reference the suckless community? I mean, that’s THE point of the movement…
Kinda tired of people referring to my work as “IT”
IT sector
Still no.
I’m not setting up routers or configuring laptops.
I’m designing and building systems.
“IT” being used this way just means “touch computer.”
So you work with information technology? 😉
Agreed, anyone that falls below the CIO gets called IT.
What about the CTO?
I think this is a European thing. “IT” is a general term for any tech work, whereas in the US that term refers to technician level network infrastructure and sysadmin work.
No, people misuse the term in the US, too.
deleted by creator
What would you prefer?
Feral Developer Level 3
Since I’m an engineer and I engineer things, maybe “engineering.”
Do you make engines?
No, I drive trains.
Have one of those cool hats?
And I get to toot the whistle
Marketing. Corporate leadership has decided marketing knows better software design than actual engineers.
Bro, just use AI, bro, you don’t need developers, bro, also skip the testing, bro, who is going to hack your SaaS, bro
Just let ai code bro its so much better and more reliable, just does what its told it works so good bro, ai is the future its so smart.
And every CoD and most big title games…
I’d argue that deploying from one codebase to 3+ different platforms is new functionality, although not for the end user per se.
I wish though that more of the web apps would come as no batteries included (by default or at least as a selectable option), i.e. use whatever webview is available on the system instead of shipping another one regardless of if you want it or not.
That’s how a bunch of apps broke when M$ got rid of explorer
But if your tool chain is worth anything the size of each binary shouldn’t be bigger. To oversimplify things a bit: it’s just #ifdefs and a proper tool chain.
In the web development world on the other hand everything was always awful. Every nodejs package has half the world as dependencies…
Did my husband made this meme? Because he is constantly saying this 😂😂😂😂
It’s the secret sauce, called unnecessary frameworks and user analytics modules.
User analytics is such an innocent word for spyware.
With that in mind, I LOVE how lean and fast some FOSS apps/projects are. One of my motivations to go searching for FOSS alternatives is when something seems slow for no reason.
It’s not always the case, but it’s often the case
KDE Plasma has been getting so much more efficient with every release that you can almost recommend it for low-end systems.
I remeber using plasma on a weak 2016 160 usd laptop with no issue in 2018, I can only imagine how much better is now
lol my laptop is from 2012, i run gnome and kde easily. windows usually needs a round of debloating every update to be usable.
“Program is slow? Just get better hardware, brah!!! It’s cheap, bruh!!!”
Fuck you and anyone that thinks like that
It’s truely a sad norm
Why are you asking? Are you trying to prematurely optimize these apps?
They only came out 10 years ago. If we optimize now, how will we integrate an AI chat agent feature next year?
Why does notepad requires 320 GBs now?
Certainly not for running an LLM on all your files to figure out which ads to show you in the start menu. Why would you even imply something like that?
*shifty eyes* Um yes
There’s lots of valid reasons for this.
Imo the biggest one people don’t account for is this: Dev salaries are incredibly high. if you want fast performance the most optimal way would be to target the platform and use low level native code, so C++ or Swift.
It would cost you like 20x more than just using electron and it will cost you bigly if you have multiple platforms to maintain.
So it turns out having 1 team crunching out an app on electron with hundreds of dependencies is cheaper, naturally that’s what most companies will do.
Don’t want to use electron ? Then it’s kind of the same issue except this time you’re using Java and C# and you have to handle platform specific things on your own (think audio libraries for example). It’s definitely doable but will be more costly than using a cross platform chromium app.
Technically there is no “most optimal”. Optimal is basically best.
