Okay, this is not an iPhone vs Android Phone debate. I respect your right to choose whichever platform that you want.
I mean, iPhone seems so antithetical with the idea of freedom. You have to connect it to a server to even use it, all apps have to go through a centralized server, no option to install whatever apps you want, which means, you literally cannot have any third-party apps without an online account.
Most of my fellow americans seems to love the idea of freedom so much, yet just buy into a closed ecosystem with no freedom? 🤔
Like almost 60% of Americans use iPhone, kinda weird to preach freedom when you cant even have an app without a corporation’s approval. If it were any other country, I wouldn’t find it weird, but for a country that’s obsessed with the idea of freedom (so much so that they disobeyed mask mandates), it’s really weird to be using a device with zero freedom.
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Through the release of the first iPhone to the mid 2010s I’d wager that most consumers agreed that iPhones were superior to Android by most metrics: they featured more support across the board, had more apps, looked nicer, and were considered the premium. Apple pioneered the modern smartphone and had a headstart in getting users hooked into their ecosystem. Nowhere was this more pronounced than in the wealthiest country in the world (and Apple’s home country).
That’s a huge generalization but I think it resonates true to a degree. Also, anecdotally, I remember that all my school computers were Macs when growing up. I’m sure Apple seeped its tendrils into people’s lives a variety of ways. It’s not a cake walk for most people to switch ecosystems. As a lifelong Windows user I’ll have a panic attack if you asked me to print a document on a Mac; I’m sure its the same vice versa lol
Also a lifelong Windows user, but have to use a Mac for work as of last year. I was expecting it to be a nightmare, but honestly 99% of the day to day stuff is either identical or similar enough that you can figure it out in a minute or two at most.
Things get a bit trickier if you’re trying to do more complex power user type stuff, since there are different paradigms at play, but even then a quick search will easily point you in the right direction.
SonyEricson p800 was launched 2002. It said smart phone on it.
Yes and that phone wasn’t the basis of most of the smart phone platforms we see whereas the iphone was.
Man I miss my Sony Ericsson. Phones used to be unique
I want my phone to be like a gaming console.
I turn it on, it works. I install curated stuff from a store.
The hardware is stable and predictable and thus software is of better quality when the developer doesn’t need to test 420 different hardware variants.
I do not want it to be a Linux PC I need to tinker with every day. I specifically want it to prevent me from fucking with it.
EDIT: I also have “adult money” so I can get any phone I want, I don’t need to get the cheapest.
Unsure why you got downvoted. Same experience here. I already script and program, sometimes I just want stuff that’s stable.
Exactly
I have a separate cheapo Android phone with a prepaid sim for those cases where I need to fiddle with something really specific.
My actual phone just has to work every day. I don’t want it to stop allowing emergency calls because Teams had the ability to intercept calls at the OS level and failed 😅
Not an American, but as an iPhone user who has had Android phones since cupcake before: iPhones „just work“, they are a lot less janky than Android, the ecosystem is smooth (although admittedly and intentionally less so when leaving it), they get updated for longer (and at the same time!) and apple has a much better privacy track record than the competition (a low bar).
Yes, I would prefer to install my apps from anywhere I want on the device I should own. An open source phone from top to bottom would be my dream, but Android is about as far removed from that as an iphone. Google took Linux and made it into a Frankenstein nightmare that is wholly dependent on them.
Just try to stick to open source and make your phone respect your privacy and see how far you get. Start at the usually locked bootloader, install a rom without google and see how few apps are left that do not require google services. And even then you are most likely dependent on binary blobs for the drivers, meaning the manufacturers can (and will) pull the rug from under your efforts as soon as they no longer feel like updating their shitty built of Android for the device in time.
I do not have time for that. What I have is enough money to buy a phone that comes as close as possible to my idea of safety, freedom and privacy without constantly jumping through burning hoops. If I am to be in a cage, it better be golden.
they are a lot less janky than Android
What did you find so problematic and unsolvable?
Just to say. I recently jumped from Android and the iPhone didn’t just work like I remember they did. Two bugs I had were adding comments on Reddit using Firefox. The keyboard would come up but my text would be off screen so I couldn’t see what I was typing. This could be a Firefox bug but it was still very weird and not one I’d seen on Android.
One bug that used to get annoying is I’d unlock the phone and when going to type, the volume would be at max briefly before going back to the volume the phone was set at. This caught me out a few times in the middle of the night.
I couldn’t get on with iOS and felt that after not using it since the iPhone 4S that nothing had really improved. Also the lack of being able to use uBlock Origin on Firefox was awful. It’s been a while since I browsed the web without an adblocker and I really hated having to do something every day. Eventually I sold the 16 Pro I had and went back to my Pixel 8.
The one thing I remember being great about the iPhone was when you upgrade you restore the backup and the phone just works. With Android you typically have to go around and login to all the apps again. Again a developer issue but certainly easier on iOS.
Android restores all your logins too.
It really doesn’t. It’s down to the developer. I would say that easily 75% app I use wanted me to set them up again.
This could be a Firefox bug but it was still very weird and not one I’d seen on Android.
This is likely directly related to the fact that Apple blocks use of any other web renderer than Webkit based on App store guidelines.
This means neither Chrome nor Firefox on iOS are actually the normal versions. Normally Chrome uses Blink and Firefox uses Gecko, but they both use Webkit on iOS.
(Yeah, I know this thread was meant to be about Americans specifically, but this proves they can be forced to allow it!)
An open source phone from top to bottom would be my dream, but Android is about as far removed from that as an iphone. Google took Linux and made it into a Frankenstein nightmare that is wholly dependent on them.
have you considered flashing custom roms on it? e/OS, LineageOS and GrapheneOS (restricted to google pixel for hardware+privacy/security reasons) are all opensource.
As soon as you start flashing custom firmware the “just works” goes right out of the window.
Graphene. Don’t try the others if you aren’t prepared for an uphill battle. Graphene just works.
I agree that graphene is the hands down best. But for people who have a device and want to switch, and that device is not a google pixel, well that severely limits your options.
• American company
• Secure
• Little to no bloatware
• Isn’t a google product
• Isn’t a google product
• Isn’t a google product
• same version of the OS in all devices
• customer support that actually answers the phone within a few rings and supports your device over the phone.
• isn’t a google product.That’s a few off the top of my head.
The customer support one is literal leaps and bounds above the competition.
I can call Apple and have someone answer very quickly, but you can’t really call Google. I can get Apple to call me if I don’t want to wait or I can take it to a store and have anything non-physical fixed for free.
Edit: Further to this. All Apple Stores offer free education on how to use their products. Got a new MacBook but don’t know what I’m doing? Book in to take a Mac class. Want to learn to draw an Emoji using an iPad or make beats with a musician then sign me up or sign your kids up. Same for photo walks and other creative tasks.
Yep. Exactly. I’ve never had an issue with any apple decide that lasted over just a few hours before it was resolved. That’s enough to win me over.
Google can keep their whistles and bells.
I like the user experience. I like the quality of the third party apps available. I like Apple’s stated commitment to privacy. I don’t trust Google.
You have to connect it to a server to even use it
That’s also true of the versions of Android that 99.99% of people use
cannot have any third-party apps without an online account.
Most people don’t care. They’ll use the suggested app store and have an account already.
Right or not, it is what it is.
Americans have been propagandized by Apple advertising into thinking Apple products are “high class.”
Ask yourself: Why does anyone wear a Rolex?
It boils down to the same thing, showing people your wealth and thus “social value” (barf) via conspicuous consumption.
If it wasn’t conspicuous consumption, why would US people literally judge potential dating partners on what kind of phone they use?
Its function is exactly what the name implies: to alert people that you have money in the bank. I Am Rich was available for purchase from the phone’s App Store for, get this, $999.99 – the highest amount a developer can charge through the digital retailer, said Armin Heinrich, the program’s developer. Once downloaded, it doesn’t do much – a red icon sits on the iPhone home screen like any other application, with the subtext ‘I Am Rich.’ Once activated, it treats the user to a large, glowing gem (pictured above). That’s about it. For a thousand dollars.
This was barely a year after the original iPhone’s release. The attitude toward Apple products has persisted ever since.
I hate to say it, the reason people choose dating partners on phone use is because of blue texts on iMessage. that’s the only reason. Apple was brilliant pitching that as an Android problem instead of playing fair and working on an open standard since day 1. Dragged their feet for years.
I still find this hard to believe. It’s just a visual indicator whether the conversation is encrypted or not, but who would actually judge partners with this.
When I checked with my kids, since we know teenagers can be very shallow bullies, they said there is some light teasing but it was really started by online crap like this. Not even teenagers care. I mean, they don’t usually use iMessages anyway, so many probably never noticed.
“Blue texts” is a fake issue. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was started as a prank, or by Google, and no one cared until it was all over the internet
It’s not just a visual indication of if it’s encrypted. SMS sucks, truly, compared to apps like iMessage, WhatsApp, etc. so it’s actually annoying to message people with green text. Now that Apple does RCS it’s not a big deal, but in the USA there’s no default internet messaging app like WhatsApp, and to the extent that there is one it’s iMessage.
SMS is default texting for all phones of all types all providers in the US. Its main advantage is ubiquity and it is the only ubiquitous text protocol. SMS was always owned by cell providers.
While I also am disappointed that ubiquitous text protocol owned by cell providers never progressed, can’t blame Apple for that. They could have used their influence to push harder but bottom line is the change needed to be at cell providers. They may also have seen that even Google with all its influence wasn’t able to make it happen (without taking it proprietary, owning it, centralizing it).
But let me ask this: what other texting provider includes a fallback to incorporate texters outside their network? At all? Does WhatsApp include users of iMessage? SMS? RCS?
You can literally blame Apple for that, because that standard did progress, and they did not incorporate it into their default messaging app for years due to anticompetitive marketing practices. To compare the responsibilities of a default and only (since you can’t sidecar on iPhone) text messaging app on a phone with 50% market share with a third party app is bad faith. Even then, WhatsApp and others were cross platform, not hardware dependent.
Did you just reverse your position? I’m confused. Do you think the blue bubbles are more than encryption or not? Do you think people care about them or not? Do you think Apple is a bad faith participant in that issue or not?
Different bubbles are a visual indicator whether the messages are encrypted.
Apple is a good faith participant in that they support a fallback to the texting standard supported by every mobile vendor.
It’s not bad faith on my part when you brought up WhatsApp. Sure they don’t have blue but bubbles, but that’s because they don’t support an open standard at all, they don’t have an inclusive mode at all, they only support their own users on their own proprietary protocol.
Most importantly I don’t see how it’s Apple’s responsibility to push mobile vendors to modernize. Blame them if vendors were modernizing and they pushed back, however, no, there was no progress. It’s irrelevant if the standard is evolving but no one supports it and this whole thing on,y works if mobile vendors support it
Different bubbles indicate more than encryption
WhatsApp is not a default app or an attempt at implementing a standard, a default text messaging app is.
The vendors were modernizing and they pushed back.
I’m glad you could set up a way to falsify your beliefs so that they could, indeed, be proven false
Conspicuous consumption doesn’t really hold in this case because the alternative is around the same price.
I’d also question any claim about the dating partner. Maybe a study said it has an impact, but I doubt it’s a strong impact on evaluation of a potential partner. By all means, I’d love to see the source for that
You also cite an example of what was basically a meme. Literally nobody bought that app (and iirc those who were tricked got their money back)
the alternative is around the same price
You know that’s not true.
There are stupidly expensive Android flagships, but there are also a lot of phones for a fraction of the price.
And the phones that cost a fraction of the price are significantly slower, have a much worse screen, barely get any software updates, and overall just kinda suck.
Sure low and mid range phones are “good enough” but if it’s a device you use for hours every day do you really only want “good enough” for right now?
Usually people speak of this as an advantage but I also think it is a disadvantage, one of the reasons for wider usage of iPhones ……
- there are crappy android phones
- historically android was crappy (even if it is much better now)
- most android phones are loaded with bloatware.
- most android phones are poorly supported or for only a short period
- privacy and security can be a challenge for regular users
- inconsistent usability
Meanwhile, iPhones
- are always “good”, even the lower end
- historically held leads in usability, features, even if not true anymore
- no bloatware from vendors
- full support for 6 years
- claim privacy and security by default
- good usability
But those inexpensive phones most often don’t deliver a comparable device experience to the flagship devices. Honestly, this is the crux of things. Comparing iPhone to “Android” is a fool’s errand. Apple often only has one more budget conscious model available explicitly. But OS support tends to last longer on Apple devices, so multiple model years are viable at once.
The different colored texts in iMessage and forced downgrade of any MMS sent via an Android is part of that perception by iPhone users that Android’s are inferior devices, even if they cost similarly.
Apple refused to implement RCS until very recently. Not saying Google is better in terms of RCS, they have their own issues, this is just about how Apple has leveraged iMessage to the end of people viewing it as a "higher class’ device than Android.
All the sleek white design was a part of that too. People thought it looked futuristic/costly and the rest of the industry tried to copy their design philosophy due to that. You can’t deny that Apple devices look classy. Apple didn’t pay Jony Ive an absolute fuckton of money per year for nothing.
It about not beeimg sold as the product. Its about using the browser that dont rat you out
But iphones can’t use Firefox with uBlockOrigin and NoScript
True. I run this on an android tablet, but firefox misses my usability needs. So i end up on safari more often than not
That means Apple’s advertising is working if you actually believe they care about your privacy.
Because an iPhone isn’t “that” expensive when you buy it on a plan. I mean it’s only $38 CAD for the new iPhone 6e on a Contract. That’s with my paycheque to paycheque budget. /s
Though honestly that’s the mind set of these users. Sure they are literally paying $100+ CAD more than MSRP. But to them since it includes the data it’s a good deal.
Now bellow is my view as a guy who manages and orgs fleet of Samsung phone, developed apps for both Android and iOS, and is the defacto IT guy for my family.
I think the lean towards iPhones comes from budget Android being crap, and peer pressure from those around them. Get a cheap A series Samsung or a Budget Acer and you are just asking for a slow and buggy experience where the mic will just stop working after 2 years. Or it’s running Android One.
Even an older iPhone like the 6s is still supported by many apps. Plus since it once had flagship specs. The soc has more power and runs better than anything new from Android. It’s the same logic that if you get an older iPad for the same price as a new Fire Tablet the iPad will be better than a fire tablet.
The solution is to get a more expensive Android. But once you get to the price point of a Samsung S series, you might as well get an iPhone. The price is comparable, and you don’t loose out on features like the App Store (google play is a steaming pile in comparison). Plus iMessage and FaceTime is seamless and Airdrop “just works”.
My relative had Android for years and struggled to use them. I finally convinced one of them to use an iPhone XR by the time the 14 was coming out, and now my Nan is texting and doing FaceTime. They could’ve done this before with the budget Android their carrier gave them. But the work Apple did to make it feel intuitive is brilliant. In fact because of the confidence boost from the iPhone, she’s even gotten herself an iPad to do her crossword puzzles.
On top of that, unlike Apple. There is no guarantee that if you pay more for you Android that I’ll keep getting support. Most phones struggle to offer more than 2 years. And with the fiasco around the Pixel 4 battery, it’s hard to believe the biggest players “promises”. Compare that to Apple and while the promise 7 years, realistically it can be 10 years.
For me the reason I swapped over was the Play Store being hot garbage. And the disgusting amount of uninstallable bloat on it. I tried for years to install custom ROMs and midrange Chinese phones to get around it. While it works, I grew tired of the work required just to keep my phone up to date. And the loss of built in features since I was going u official. Like the loss of 2/3 cameras in the app (trying to find a cracked gcamera which enables both is a chore), and contactless pay (evolution x worked sometime, and locked me out other time).
Don’t get me wrong iOS isn’t better than Android. I miss my headphone jack, FDroid, side loading my own apps, the ease of adding custom ringtones, and custom launcher. Oh and being able to use 3rd party web browsers that aren’t skins of Safari (WebKit). But when updates come through I’m not concerned. My contactless pay works. Ad blocking is possible and I can’t complain about the cameras.
I recently upgraded my six-year-old iPhone to the latest, highest end version… the OS was fully supported still, and it ran amazingly fast. The battery was original and lasted most of a day without charging.
I have to agree with all of your points.
Also on your last point… this new phone’s cameras are INSANE. I have yet to see any other phone match how incredible pictures turn out. Especially pictures of my cats in a very dark room. My old phone would take kinda blurry dark room pics, but the fur detail in even a nearly pitch-black room is ridiculous.
Until there is a better alternative to the new evil that is google/alphabet, apple is a lesser evil.
Eh you can achieve similar or greater privacy on a Android phone simply because it’s not locked down in the way an iPhone is.
- iphones are the first recognized “smartphone”.
- apple is an american company.
- apple has a massive fanbase that is completely dedicated to apple and all their products.
i’m not sure what the global usage of apple products is, but i think here it’s probably a lot higher than in other places. throw in the fact that there’s only one device capable of (legally) running apple’s mobile software, and there you have it.
also, their advertising didn’t hurt either. no one on the android side had the kind of advertising they did until maybe 6 or 7 years later and by that time you were probably already well established in the iphone ecosystem.
They used to innovate, no doubt. But their products provide absolutely terrible value now. Great resale, sure. But you’re overpaying 20% for the hardware you’re getting which is not the case on the Android side. The only thing iPhone universally does better is 1) video and 2) ecosystem (if all your products are Apple). The rest is a tomaeto vs tomahto situation.
Not relevant to most basic users but I could not use a phone where I did not have the freedom to sideload apps, especially if I’m overpaying for the hardware.
I would never use an iPhone if my phone were my primary computing device. But I just make occasional calls and texts, and use a handful of apps (for instance, Nextcloud and Home Assistant connected directly to my home server, bypassing most of Apple’s ecosystem).
For a secondary device, I just want something simple and sturdy that I have to think about as little as possible—and for that specific use case the limitations are a plus.
I do always wonder if this is part of it. I want my phone to just work, but I have more appropriate tools for playing with stuff. My servers are Linux, my laptop is windows, and my work is Mac - appropriate tools for my uses. My kids can spend all day tweaking their gaming computers, but want their phones to just work also
While I’m atypical in how many different computers I have, are we just more used to multiple devices in the us?
I’m a professional C# developer, and I switched to iPhone in 2020. Mostly I wanted a more controlled, curated App Store for increased confidence in a safe execution environment. I’ll pay the $100/yr for a developer account if I really need to build and run my own code.
The lack of ad block options bugs me. I also don’t use iCloud.
I have doubts about whether this question is asking or proselytizing.
If OP isn’t then the commenters sure are taking up the reins
Asking.
Using iPhones is fine.
But I see people being so “SovCit” then go on and use an iPhone, which is just like… wtf lol
Just use nextdns for ad blocking. You can install your own profile that is basically a pihole at the os level for cell and WiFi traffic. It blocks web ads, but also any trackers embedded in third party apps.
I have no need for third party apps.
For anything beyond texting or scrolling, I have a desktop.
Defying mask mandates wasn’t due to a ‘love for freedom’ but due to delusions and selfishness.
So why not get a cheap android instead?
Because id rather pay more for a product than be it.
Honestly, if you can tolerate the Apple ecosystem it works really well, with adequate privacy. My wife and my mother both use them and I recommend it for anyone who isn’t a privacy nerd.
If the user isn’t willing to jump through hoops to lock shit down, Apple offers a better suite across platforms for privacy and security.
Honestly, if you can tolerate the Apple ecosystem it works really well, with adequate privacy.
Not having firefox browser extensions is a huge dealbreaker tho (because Apple require some safari thing in all the browsers that breaks extentions), like imagine not being able to have uBlock Origin.
Also, I’m a bit of a pirate… Apple app store has no torrent client… 😉
I’d consider myself an average ublock user on desktop, and as a point of comparison I’ve yet to run into anything on iOS that wasn’t blocked just as well by AdGuard for Safari, plus the distraction control feature for hiding one-off annoyances.
You can literally set up a raspberry pi for torrents.
Why on earth would you torrent in your phone?
Why would you torrent from your phone?
Wrong tool for the job…
Why wouldn’t you?
Slow, extra data traffic, extra battery usage.
What are the upsides? I could see a phone being a great controller for a remote seedbox for sure.
You can use it with wifi, I just view phones as computers, so not using them for whatever is weird to me. If someone wants to download torrents they should go for it.
Orion browser IOS has firefox and chrome extension support (doesn’t work for everything but most do)
Also, I’m a bit of a pirate… Apple app store has no torrent client…
I sideload iTorrent on my iPhone via AltStore
Blue ticks and group chats.
Cos they never made it away from the pre-installed apps.
The Blue/Green tick thing has winded down in my own personal sphere. My wife’s family has a group chat where I was the only android user and would get dunked on when I replied. I just asked to be removed so they wouldn’t have to deal with SMS/MMS bullshit. Now that RCS is on everything it doesn’t matter. Ive been trying to get them to use Signal for the last few years but no one wants another app that isn’t their default messaging app.
On the second part, yeah thats true. If Apple does anything right it’s making “things work” for the average user, and I am sure we all know what the average user can do now. Any concerns I bring up with iOS is met with “but you work in IT and understand that stuff” which is hard to argue with when people just want something to work without troubleshooting and exploring options.
