Into the Wild was a cautionary tail that for some reason people romanticize…
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Except he dies alone at the end, so it was definitely a cautionary tale.
This is sort of like saying Don Quixote was about a famous knight saving the world and not a crazy rich guy fighting windmills
Except he dies alone at the end, so it was definitely a cautionary tale.
If the last recent years has taught us anything, it’s that how you present a thing matters a lot more than what the thing is that’s actually being presented. Unfortunately.
Pretty much, which is why I consider the Fight Club movie a complete flop, maybe not financially, but it fails at its own message so hard that only the dudebros it mocks like it.
that only the dudebros it mocks like it.
or, hear me out, movies don’t need to be lectures and is ok to just do something for the entertainment/artistry/visuals/storytelling of it.
I can tell you that I’m the opposite of what the movie depicts, I’m fragile, never been in a fight, I sincerely hope that will never be in one, I cried like a baby in ET or the time traveles wife, the Schindler’s list broke my heart, I dislike the dudebro dynamics, and I adore that movie. I also like horror movies as a genre and I don’t go around killing people.
It’s fine that you use movies as lectures of life and ethics, or that you don’t enjoy them if they don’t have a message that you agree with, but some people like them for other reasons, so please try not to profile people for what they like to watch.
It’s not that I dislike Fight Club for “not having a message”, but for the fact that it’s meant to have a message according to the director and the writer of the book, but the movie doesn’t depict what that message is very well.
sorry I wasn’t clear, my criticism wasn’t towards you not liking the movie, anyone have their own taste and there is nothing wrong with it, we all just want to enjoy things :-)
My problem was about you profiling people that do like the movie as “dudebros”, that wasn’t very nice IMHO
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The difference between what I took away when I first read that book and the 2nd or 3rd time I watched the movie was night and day.
I feel bad the kid he had a privileged shit life. But going out into the middle of the Alaskan wilderness to survive with no formal training is punching way above his weight…
The thing that dawned on me when I watched it as an older adult was his sheer selfishness. Smug, cliched little prick. His father’s violence aside, what about the rest of his family?
I feel like Humans don’t understand how fragile we are
They should all have Fragile branded on their foreheads at birth.
Think they rule the world and then a tiny mosquito wipes them out.
So sad but at the same time LOfuckingL are people dumb!
They had a 14-year old kid with them. That poor kid didn’t deserve to have been led to his death because of the adults he had no choice but to depend on.
Are you more angry at the people trying to escape the crazy system than you are at the system that drove them out?
Yes, because they died in an incredibly predictable way by going out unprepared and they brought a kid to die with them.
They thought they were going to be killed by capitalism in decline.
Because they were idiots who didn’t realize how they would definitely die in nature without society to protect them.
Many people die in society as a direct result of the way society is. Are they also idiots, or are you the idiot for judging victims of oppression?
Everybody dies in nature.
They thought wrong, obviously.
They likely would have died in society as well, from poverty, cancer, addiction, or suicide. They were drowning in one world so they sought refuge in another. There was no happy ending in wait.
They likely would have died in society as well, from poverty, cancer, addiction, or suicide
Lol great rational for killing your kid. They could possibly, maybe, die anyway so better just get it over with right? She was an idiot and her stupidity lead to the death of an innocent child.
You seem very eager to justify this tragedy as if it was inevitable, and not the result of very avoidable choices. Are you okay?
The same system that provides antibiotics? Have you ever grown food? It’s a lot harder than buying it at the store, even when you include the time spent working at a minimum wage job.
Nature is brutal and unforgiving, these idiots did not begin to respect it.
They could never have survived without society to care for them, the proof is that they didn’t.
The system that provides soap, food, internet, cops, homelessness, poverty, fentanyl, prisons, slavery, inequality, racism, sex discrimination, poor education, and horrendous working conditions.
They were ignorant about nature the same way you seem to be ignorant about society. Both of you risk your lives on a daily basis dealing with SYSTEMS you don’t understand.
It’s just the luck of the draw that you can sit there in high judgement and talk mad shit.
Such a victim.
You make foolish assumptions. I’m a homeowner, a veteran, and a registered nurse. I recognize suffering because I devote every day to helping sufferers. One doesn’t need to be a victim to have empathy.
Nature provides less, most of us probably wouldn’t make it through childhood.
Not true at all. There are abundant resources in nature, but most people lack the knowledge to make use of them.
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That’s just plain ignorant.
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There’s no “system.”
Me: Gestures to everything.
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Is it a contest? Can’t you be angry at both the system and people endangering their children and that is enough?
Do you get mad at rabbits that run away from dogs and into the line of fire of the hunter?
Humans are not rabbits. What a terrible analogy. I get mad at any human that intentionally endangers their child. I don’t know why you don’t object to child abuse.
If you can’t understand the metaphor for what it is, then you’re below the threshold for understanding how a person living under a constant threat of starvation and death might make poor decisions. I think we’re done here. Don’t bother me again.
You could at least pretend not to be insufferable.
Nobody drove them out. This was a decision she made on her own accord and by her own free will.
Her free will to run away from a system she perceived as a threat. Are you saying that you’ve been totally comfortable the last 4 years and never once considered the collapse of the system being a threat to your loved ones?
Are you saying that you’ve been totally comfortable the last 4 years and never once considered the collapse of the system being a threat to your loved ones?
Of course I’m not saying that. But I never once thought to myself “Know what would make this situation better? Starving myself and my family in the cold wilderness that none of us are prepared to endure.”
That thought was something she considered and acted upon. It’s not your fault for having such thoughts, but acting on them is always your fault. Nobody told her “You need to take your family into the mountains, or else”. She did that to herself.
Ah, so you’re projecting your insecurity on them by taking satisfaction in the idea that their way of coping with the collapse of the system got them killed, so you’re obviously more in control. If you get cancer from corporate pollution and poor food quality, there’s nothing you could have done. If you get hit by a car, it’s luck of the draw. If a Republican president outlaws your way of life, that’s just the way it is. But since they’re dead, they were obviously at fault.
Where did I say any of that?
Ironic accusing me of projecting, though.
I think there are a lot of threats in the world, I think climate change might also be a threat.
I don’t stake myself out in the antarctic in response.
Your response might be better than theirs, but you could be on the chopping block tomorrow as well. You’re still blaming the oppressed for the conditions set by their oppressors.
You’re gonna need to identify these oppressors if you want anybody to humor this ridiculous argument.
Yes, a senseless death due to Ill preparation
How would they prepare for economic collapse and the rise of fascism? They took a risk, but they might have just accelerated the inevitable.
They didn’t take a risk. Taking a risk means preparing for situations and dealing with them as they come up, and what happens happens. This lady prepared nothing. This is more like resting in the shade of the anvil suspended by twine in a Bugs Bunny cartoon. She walked out into the woods to die and just didn’t know it. It’s an awful story, she obviously didn’t feel she had options, but a little bit of reading or video would show a person very quickly that they needed more preparation than the deceased put in to have any hope it surviving an alpine winter.
Edit: grammar
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Leaving or not leaving your bed is a risk. Preparation has nothing to do with it. They obviously weren’t prepared for living in late-stage capitalism either. You’re falling victim to the just-world fallacy.
The adult who dragged a kid along was trying to create her own system, which undeniably isolated him, subjected him to suffering, and killed him, so yeah I’m angry at that on his behalf.
She was afraid, ignorant, and uneducated. How do you think she got that way?
She got that way because you personally didn’t teach her a better way of living. You’re personally responsible for these deaths, including that of the child.
Why, why would you do this, @TrismegistusMx? Why? Why?
Well she’s from Colorado springs so I’m going to guess a steady diet of conservative propaganda…
Loss of community, loss of meaningful labor, American healthcare, probably underpaid, socially outcast, etc… Out of the frying pan and into the fire.
Where are you getting all this information about these hardships she faced? It’s certainly not in the article, so are you just making shit up?
Oh my, finally a subinstance drama 🍿
This is very sad, and preventable.
Reading the article it sounds like this woman unfortunately just spent too much time on social media reading all the doom and gloom of the media and people amplifying it in places like reddit, Twitter and Facebook.
wanted to live in a land disconnected from the world, which she viewed as chaotic and dangerous
she and her teenage son could be happy and safe away from the news, the viruses, the politics of modern-day America
had been “discouraged with the state of the world”
Rebecca Vance’s fears intensified during the pandemic
Consuming too much of this crap has really affected peoples mental health, from Trump, to BLM riots, racism, covid, it’s broken some people who spend too much time on social media.
So much so that they think the only way out is to hide away from society.
Reminder, friends, to take frequent and extensive breaks from social media for your own mental health.
she and her teenage son could be happy and safe away from the news, the viruses, the politics of modern-day America
Just close the apps. That’s literally all it takes to avoid like 90% of the crap that she’s talking about. But the viruses… did she think those don’t make it to the forest or something?
Not reading Twitter has a tangible impact on my anxiety. You can feel it rise when I used it, fell away when I stopped.
I haven’t used Facebook in almost 2 years now and it’s so nice
The teenager — whom Jara described as a smart and caring son who had been a “mama’s boy” and had been home-schooled
The only food found at their shelter was a single package of ramen
You can’t lump in blm riots in there, those were protests stoked to violence by police officers, so what you should be saying it’s, corrupt police forces resulting in blm protests
Maybe I’m being too generous, but I was reading it as this person consumed too much media, including lies and exaggerations, and it warped their world view. I guess I read it as a topic like and not calling them riots themselves. Kinda like the “race riot” in Tusla, but idk.
Man gotta love when those protesters storm the local grocery store to fight social injustice. BLM!
You can’t deny that there is something fascinating about this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUO8secmc0g
The BLM “riots” were 99% protests where the only violence was on the part of the cops harassing protesters.
100%. Some people exploited the riots to break into stores but they were the significant minority, and additionally some were outed as bad actors who actually didn’t support the movement.
Please, I knew people who were exactly the same back in the 90s, there are always people who go down the paranoia rabbit hole and don’t come back out.
Lot of them were praying for the collapse because that’s when God would raise them above the wicked heathens and sodomites because they’re secretly special but everyone else is too evil to admit it.
The article said the poor kid was homeschooled, which is often a hallmark of religious fundamentalism. Not trusting the world and thinking it’s out to get you is also a hallmark of fundamentalism - but also of mental illness.
She’s from Colorado Springs (massive conservative area) and she became concerned about the world and wanted to live off the grid in 2022 (when Trump lost). The writer of this article sure does beat around the bush and struggles not to say whether she was a right wing nut.
And remember that despite some unique large scale issues we have today, there were much, MUCH worse times to be alive. “Majority of Americans live a peaceful life and die at 70-80” is not reportable news but still largely true.
Things are far from perfect, there are major issues, but I’d choose to live today than almost the entirety of human existence previously.
There were definitely way more violent times in the US: there were pandemics, there were revolts, there were wars. We live in an amazing time but it takes a bit of grand perspective to realize that all the bad news is easy to see in a matter of minutes. You can have death and destruction delivered right into your home in a matter of milliseconds. It’s much much harder to see all the wonderful things happening in the world
They started out in late summer. In an area with very cold winters. I’m no brainiac, but even to me this seems like poor planning.
Like an episode of Alone, but without the planning, support and logistics.
ie the important parts
c/thatsthejoke
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Dark thought, but maybe that was the plan.
Well, I guess the world no longer distress them :/
I hate how people talk about off grid living as something you can pull off alone, that’s difficult even if you allow for buying food and installing all kinds of fancy infrastructure in your home.
The truth is that properly sustainable and reliable off-grid living requires a small community, because you need a lot of labour.
I am reminded of that guy who did that in Alaska solo, for like 30 years Dick Perniky or some such I believe his name was. He took video of wildlife and got it edited. I think he was 50 or there abouts when he left the lower 48.
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Kazinsky didn’t live off the grid. He worked as a teacher from time to time, and received financial support from his father.
I don’t know this guy, but even Superman needs a backup plan in case he gets sick, and infected wound or ruins his ankle by tripping over something. Living off grid alone is just one misstep away from catastrophe.
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You nailed it. And these folks were simply living off canned food and ramen… For how long?
Communal living is great if you get the right mix of people with a shared vision… In the right location… With the right resources… To be successful it seems you need to have a pretty organic evolution of the process and attract people with shared vision. The dark side of this devolves into cultism; the brighter side is a sustainable living and sense of belonging.
Now there are people who live off the grid in places like Alaska (just watch Life Below Zero) and do it successfully… But these people grew up doing that or studied and prepared A LOT. And man, doing that solo is not easy. None of them seemed to be super healthy or cheerful.
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In the past it took entire villages who still engaged in trade. Even back then you were on the grid even if it was a stone age one.
Somebody read Little House on the Prairie once and said, “I can do that!” I’m joking, but only slightly.
I read a book a while back about the real life of the author of little house on the prairie (it’s called “prairie fires”) - her books really sugarcoat how hard life was - even people who knew how to live off the land had a really hard time
Now there are people who live off the grid in places like Alaska (just watch Life Below Zero) and do it successfully… But these people grew up doing that or studied and prepared A LOT. And man, doing that solo is not easy. None of them seemed to be super healthy or cheerful.
But even in the story they went into town for food and blankets, and they didn’t try to winter in a tent.
You quoted a post other than the one to which you replied
Right? Living off grid used to be called being banished by your tribe and it was basically a death sentence.
Other people are annoying as fuck, but I recognize I need them to live.
Casuals ruin everything
And everyone that wanted to live off the grid wanted to get away from people.
Extremely predictable outcome of extremely stupid choices.
I don’t think living “off-the-grid” is a stupid choice, but doing so without planning and preparation is just plain irresponsible.
When people successfully live off the grid they do it by essentially making their own grid.
People’s obsession with “off grid” really demonstrates a lack of gratitude for everything that society provides.
It’s essentially the modern adult version of running away as a child.
I completely understand your point and will agree that many people take our day to day luxuries for granted, but society is just as capable of constantly beating you down and taking from you as much as it provides.
I can’t blame anyone for trying to “disappear”, but at least do some extensive planning.
I think running away as a child can be a very different situation than you imagine. “Running away” to the local park or your friend’s house after a disagreement with your parents, sure. But a lot of kids run away because their basic needs aren’t being met or they are being abused. Kids shouldn’t be expected to be able to weigh the consequences of leaving a home with resources to avoid abuse, but adults should absolutely be expected to weigh the consequences of leaving society.
Are you trying to “well, actually” me? There were a myriad of choices made here, all under the guise of “living off the grid.” I very specifically used a plural word, not a singular one. Choices. All of them stupid, including the one you protest as not stupid. It is made stupid by way of their sheer incompetence, unpreparedness, lack of education and training in the matter, and their sheer stubbornness to not call it quits when reality descended upon them.
Your reply is coming across as needlessly aggressive, but I’m not sure if I’m just projecting my years of Reddit interaction onto you. I had no ill intentions when I replied to your initial post, only wanted to offer my two cents on a public forum, which in this case was making a distinction as to what is considered stupid in this context. To further clarify, what I posted was not a protest and was an opinion meant to further the discussion.
“Living off the grid” can also be referred to as self-sustainable living and it seems to be growing in popularity as modern society becomes more exclusive, artificial, and unhealthy. Taking the knowledge you’ve gained and skills you’ve learned in order to live sustainably by yourself in nature, away from the bullshit of modern life is, personally, not stupid, which was the original point I was trying to make. But, as you mentioned, it is when people decide to just quit everything because they had a bad day, but have no tools or skills to survive that is very ill-informed to say the least.
For most people, it’s going to be tough. It takes a very high level of dedication and skills.
Once I watched a season of alone I dropped all illusions about running into the woods to live the naturalist life.
If anyone is thinking “lol I could do that” just watch alone, it is HARD out there in the wilds.
For real though, they are straight up experts, and after 60 days, 90% of them are on the verge of death lol
Bullet points of what’s the ass kicker?
- Maintaining a balance of calories in vs out is really hard. In particular fats are extremely difficult to acquire.
- Getting almost anything done requires hard manual labor, which means you need even more calories.
- Harsh winters mean food scarcity and burning even more calories just keeping warm.
- You’re completely fucked if you get sick or injured.
- Boredom, loneliness and stress could drive you insane.
Can you expand on why fats are harder to acquire? The most immediate method I can think of is from hunting and trapping. Is this very difficult to do from a practical point of view?
Do you know how to hunt or set traps? Do you know how to butcher an animal without nicking a bowel and tainting the meat? Most folks don’t. I know I don’t. I would die if left out in the woods and having to fend for myself.
Fair enough. Even if you do end up killing something, you might not have the skills to safely prepare it for consumption.
I can do most of that. Still would probably die due to falling from a cliff or shit.
Also tbh I’m highly pharmacodependant.
It’s weird to me people who think they could or want to attempt to survive doing those things every. single. day. by themselves. I’ve done everything you’ve mentioned, as well as foraged for whatever couldn’t kill me or eat me first, bugs included. It’s not fun, it’s fucking brutal work and you spend most of your day hungry unless you find a good, consistent source of calories and clean water. You’re still fucked though if you live anywhere that gets a real winter, break a bone, get an infection, run into an animal that’s just as hungry as you are. Humans aren’t equipped to survive alone for very long.
Unless you are a skilled and experienced hunter and trapper, game is quite difficult to acquire. Especially if modern hunting and trapping equipment is not available.
All the bullet points, there’s a reason we’ve moved society in the direction we have. Everything from shoes to showers makes life tolerable.
People like to idealise primitive lifestyles. But when actual primitives are given a choice, they always choose civilization, despite the drawbacks.
In the show Alone the take away is that fat beats skills. All of the super fit “survival experts” with 5% body fat are being carried out on stretchers in a couple of weeks. The 300lb dude with minimal skills out lasts all of the experts.
The environment just doesn’t have enough fat calories available. Skill won’t change this.
For the first few seasons sure but that Jordan guy that won season 6 was all skill and attitude.
Is he the guy that killed an elk?
If you can’t at the very least identify what mushrooms you can or can not eat in the forest, you should not go out there to live. I 100% can not, so my dumb ass will never try to go live off grid out in the woods. I can’t find food and I acknowledge that. More folks need to realize their limitations.
For most of us, going to live in “the wild” is as preposterous as us returning to the oceans we crawled out of eons ago. We’ve evolved past that, and are no longer suited for that environment, at least not naturally anyway.
I don’t know, man. There are Amazon tribes who do perfectly well without iPhones. I think what you mean is, we, that is, you and me didn’t get to learn how to survive in those environments naturally and organically, simply because our societies don’t need those skills. But of course we are suited for that environment. We have opposable thumbs!
I built a submarine, would you like to go
dieexplore the depths of the ocean with me?Sure, I’ll bring the chips to go with the human salsa we’ll turn into.
Starvation and cold. So sad
amprim go brrr
What a terrible way to go. They sounded less prepared than even Chris McCandless.
I can’t believe I’m recommending reality TV, but Alone is a fairly good representation of being alone in the wilderness with no resources. It is extremely unpleasant.
Alone is a great show. But I’ve got to tell you, while I watch and know I do not (currently) possess the skills to do what those folks do, there is a draw for me to want to do it. I mean I’m sure I’m over-romanticizing the thing to an extent, and - again - I know enough about me to know I can’t do it today, but there’s a distinct pull to want to.
Love this video essay related to this topic
I think many people have that pull to nature, but most that do it and survive recognize that living without the infrastructure of the rest of humanity is at least extremely challenging and so will thoroughly prepare.
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I did a wilderness survival camp in Arizona as a kid myself. I have had massive respect for nature ever since then. Even with a group of people survival in the wilderness is tough. I remember struggling for days to even make my first fire.
Alone showed me how different survival tactics are depending on your location. I feel like I could survive at least a few months on my own in the Sonoran desert, but anywhere else I would be done for pretty quickly. Cold snowy weather would probably end me on the first night.
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I would guess a good portion of US adults, these days, have no idea how to survive away from modern convenience for any length of time
I understand many people are frightened in this strange world, but this is outright murder-suicide by stupidity. The kid didn’t know what’s happening to him. Don’t run away, change the world. Or -at least- try to.
Technically, they’re still off the grid.
Maybe under it?
How did they leave a car at a campsite for months and not have any kind of search and rescue triggered?
My buddy got lost on a trail once and had to do an shitty night out in the woods, the next morning there were forest service personnel out looking for him because they spotted his car parked overnight with no camp permit posted.
I thought this was standard practice at every national and state park. An unattended vehicle is seen as a sure sign that someone is in trouble. I guess I’m never going hiking in Colorado, cause if I get in trouble the CO forest personnel are apparently just going to leave me for dead.
It wasn’t a park, so unless someone filed a missing person report the car itself wouldn’t necessarily trigger anything since people abandon all kinds of crazy shit on national forests.
From what I’ve read they weren’t in a sanctioned Park, this was more of a back country area tucked away in the woods.
You’re right… National Forest… Not a park
The forest service is still supposed to check for abandoned vehicles overnight, as is the best way to check for lost hikers
They must have made some sort of effort to hide the vehicle, or park it somewhere it wouldn’t be questioned for some time. If the goal is to get away from people, you don’t want your vehicle to cause someone to come looking for you.
Yeah, that’s insane. Also, now I know where to go if I ever need to store my vehicle for extended periods of time!
Why didn’t they just get back in the car and head back to civilization?
Probably froze overnight while sleeping. Between hypothermia and malnutrition, sometimes people just never wake up.
The roads would have gotten buried with snow. One snowy day would do it. By the time they realized it, too late. Those forest service roads are not plowed.
