Summary
According to the Telegraph, a leaked confidential Trump peace plan delivered to President Zelenskyy has caused panic in Kyiv.
The proposal would grant the U.S. half of revenues from Ukraine’s resource extraction and licensing, effectively amounting to economic colonization.
The Telegraph noted, “Trump’s demands would amount to a higher share of Ukrainian GDP than reparations imposed on Germany at the Versailles Treaty, later whittled down at the London Conference in 1921, and by the Dawes Plan in 1924.”
Simultaneously, the plan would absolve Russia for its invasion that has caused hundreds of thousands of deaths.
So many assasinations in world history, they really arent that rare of a thing.
Good job inbred Americans.
Take foreign policy issues up with the leaders who proposed them. Leave innocent citizens out of this, and support those who resist Trump.
Ethnic and cultural insults only furthers the divide between European and American culture.
Mmmm gonna have to disagree, as an American. None of this happened in a vacuum, of course, but our citizenry inarguably shit the bed quite thoroughly here, and now we need to lay in it. Fascism and oligarchy are the order of the day here, as are protectionism, isolationism, xenophobia, racism, and nativism. By all means support the resistance, but American culture is, at this point, rife with things to not be proud of. I’ve never felt more politically or ideologically alienated in my life. Our playbook is not it. Use us as a cautionary tale. I hope we can pull out of this tailspin at some point, but I’m not sure that’s a guaranteed thing - and for god’s sake don’t follow our lead here.
Ok, but domestic shame has nothing to do with geopolitics. Other actors can act on that shame to influence american politics, I guess.
However, if European leaders start taking up the viewpoint that all Americans are racists and imperialists, then relations will only further deteriorate. Americans could be subject to sanctions and banned from Europe. American refugees will be turned away. Americans will be subject to hate crimes. Trump-aligned fascists will play up Americans’ fears and use the international hatred of Americans to drum up support.
A state’s foreign policy is not, and has never been, equivalent to the culture of it’s people.
I say this as an American immigrant in Europe.
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Then wear your share of the shame
I’m not sure you read what that person wrote correctly.
our citizenry inarguably shit the bed quite thoroughly here, and now we need to lay in it.
That is them taking their share of the blame. Perhaps reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit?
I thought that was what I was expressing?
It’s the same rationale for why Russian civilians don’t get a free pass, except we voted our way here, which is worse.
The Telegraph noted, “Trump’s demands would amount to a higher share of Ukrainian GDP than reparations imposed on Germany at the Versailles Treaty, later whittled down at the London Conference in 1921, and by the Dawes Plan in 1924.”
This is an extraordinarily bad move.
I’m glad to see steps taken toward the war ending, but this is the sort of Big Mac diplomacy that’s just patently moronic. Trump seems to think he can just order up what he wants and it’s going to magically happen without any negative consequences.
Even if you’re a world superpower, there’s only so much you can demand of another country. The Iraq embargo, for instance, gave rise to Al Qaeda and the eventual destruction of the World Trade Towers. (And that was the SECOND attempt, after a group of terrorists tried to bomb them previously in the 90’s.)
Like I simply could not believe he thinks he could add that. Even the most tyrannical warlords of the past didn’t demand that much tribute from people they conquered. The Mongols and Romans would blush at this shit.
The Iraq embargo, for instance, gave rise to Al Qaeda and the eventual destruction of the World Trade Towers.
This is a racist narrative that relies on the assumption that Arabs have no control over themselves and “they’re all the same”. Also relies on the false narrative that Saddam Hussein supported Al Qaeda that was promoted during the build up to the Iraq War.
The reality is that Al Qaeda were enemies of Saddam Hussein, because not all Arabs are the same person. And a psychopath like Saddam Hussein doesn’t want other psychopaths around as competition.
Try to see past American exceptionalism and understand that not everything in the world is defined by it’s relation to the US.
Osama Bin Laden literally referenced the sanctions against Iraq in his fatwa justifying his attacks on Americans.
But okay. Thank you for your response and your insights.
Bin Laden would say anything to get recruits. Fact is, Al Qaeda had a lot of operations going on against Saddam Hussein.
But okay, believe everything a mass murderer says. That makes you a very enlightened person LOL
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The Iraq embargo, for instance, gave rise to Al Qaeda and the eventual destruction of the World Trade Towers.This is a racist narrative that relies on the assumption that Arabs have no control over themselves and “they’re all the same”.
Nah. Even if we assume (which we do) that Arabs, like any other group of people, aren’t all the same, and that they do have (partial) control over themselves, like anyone else … the decisions and fates of a sufficiently large number of them can still be influenced by a sufficiently large external influence, such as revoked access to international trade. Sometimes in chaotic ways. Heck, if billboard ads work in influencing people, it seems difficult to believe more intrusive changes to people’s lifes would have no effect.
Since the article already mentions it, for example Germany between the WWs. The height of reparations was helpful for nationalistic and ultimately again militaristic groups in Germany to gain power. Not as an automatism, not as a justification, simply recognizing a statistical causality. Peace isn’t equal peace. What’s a foul peace worth? We need conditions which support a stable and peaceful coexistence, not plant the seeds for the next war.
I’m quite certain that this deal is intended to be unpalatable to Ukraine - it was cooked up by Trump and Putin after all.
Either way they win:
Ukraine takes the deal: they win; Ukraine says the deal is ridiculous and walks away: then Russia & Trump brand them as unrealistic agitants and delay for more favourable terms and extend the war.
this deal is intended to be unpalatable to Ukraine
Oh, I get that. Still pretty stupid.
Well, Europe needs to grow a pair and tell Trump to fuck off. We need to accept that he is leaving Nato, and European countries need to take it over or set up a new organisation. He can make any deal he likes with Russia; Europe and Ukraine can just tell him no and show him the true limits of his power. He cannot dictate to Europe and he is not our president.
And this is the problem with “America first.” Those who are the most selfish inevitably find themselves alone and miserable.
But all leaders have to be on the same page.
And then this needs to be agreed upon once again so that the current president of the european council makes a clear statement.
If they got the balls the transition period will take some time I suppose.
This is what is leveraged currently, imo.
But this isn’t mostlikely the entire world dynamic… Idk.
I really hope Europe starts making some moves.
From the moment he won the election until now we’ve seen a lot of world leaders attempting to make nice with him and appease him. It should be clear now that he cannot be appeased nor will his ego ever be satisfied. He is going to take and take and take until other countries start telling him no and laying out boundaries that they’re willing to strictly enforce if need be.
Did you leave it intentionally vague wether you were talking about P or T? I kind of find it nice how it fits both, how similar they are.
Nah that wasn’t my intention. It’s true that they’re similar, but I’ve mostly been watching American politics.
In the US, there seems to be little understanding of the situation in Europe, which can create false hope. Europe is dealing with the same shit as the US, it’s just way behind. But it’s going the same direction.
Also, Europe is not enough of a united entity. There are still national states, it’s easy to stir up nationalistic moods. And in many European countries, pro-billionaire populists and far-right parties are getting to power.
I wouldn’t say there’s no hope at all, but let’s look at the real situation.
Leaving Nato drastically increases the chances he attacks Canada and attacking Canada will cause a civil war. 100%
If Trump takes Canada, he better occupy it and not integrate it politically.
Adding 40 million people to the US population without representation seems unlikely. With representation, that many people with Canadian opinions will mean no more Republican House or President for generations. Are the 10 provinces getting senate seats? 2 each? Never another red senate if that happens. Electoral College votes?
Honestly, he is going to add the second largest country in the world as a single state? Good luck.
Will 51st state Canadians be able to move to other parts of the US? Because just the snowbirds already there would turn Florida, Texas, Arizona, and Nevada blue overnight.
the 51st state thing is tabloid level headline nonsense
there is no way it would happen peacefully. , it would only happen after a military invasion or a coup backed by the US. Abandon any idea of Canada becoming a state, it would be occupied territory without legal representation and likely very few if any rights. and it would remain that way for at least a generation or two before any small “new states” were carved out, and collaborators would be allowed to rule over small regions for the interest of keeping the peace. after a healthy amount of colonization of American loyalists, murder of Canadians and imprisonment of dissidents. but all in all. make no mistake, it would be a shooting war, and it would certainly cause civil war in america too, as this is a red line.
you need only look to Eastern Ukraine to see how this sort of thing plays out.
Armed coercion, military invasion, fake referendums, importing migrants to replace the dead and evicted with "colonists’. suppression , imprisonment and murder of locals who dont swear fealty. etc.
Europe is not united enough. Lot’s of states deal with their own rise of fascism. It’s depressing.
As an American, it scares the hell out of me, but I agree with you.
They need to embargo us.
Make the US economy absolute dog shit so the GOP gets nuked in 2026. There’s enough GOP Senate seats in play to remove Trump from office in early 2027.
I actually agree with you. I think there needs to be a global summit right now. Every country but the US is invited.
We need to figure out how everybody can stop buying or selling to the US immediately. We need to reflow trade to make that happen.
Yes, it will be painful. But, in my view, it needs to happen.
In Canada, the public discourse has finally caught up with this. We’ll see how long Europe takes to get past the denial stage.
After JD Vance’s little trip to Europe, a lot of European countries are beginning to consider the US to be an adversary.
I like to think that the majority of Americans also think of the Musk/Trump regime as an adversary.
It very plainly is an adversary to any country that values freedom. Land of the oppressed and home of the cowardly.
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The Ukrainians started fighting before any guarantees and support started coming in from the west. They are fighting for their own self determination. Trump thinking he can just impose this is just not understanding that the Ukrainians can simply say no. And when they do, his all powerful persona will be exposed even more for the scam that it is.
Russian battleship and American president: fuck off!
You see, this is how Palestinian, resistance groups, and all colonized countries feel when Europe and North America made sure to suck the living resources out of them, making them cheap labour if they decide to escape their land.
In this case, Trump is treating Ukraine the same way they treat south america and other small nations.
Putin’s puppet doing his job well. The Orange Turd delivers garbage as usual.
Putin’s puppet
“Putin’s puppet” is the ceo of the wealthiest country in the world and the strongest army in history. You probably don’t like to hear but if there are any puppets they are most likely the 10 times weaker players
Don’t bother. People here would rather have Putin as god-emperor than face the reality of institutional failure that got them here. Twice.
Or are easily manipulated narcissists. Trump before running for office in the first place laundered money for Russian oligarchs and an extensive and prolonged Russian based disinformation is the main reason he has the cult he does. Also key point: everything Trump has done indicates he is a coward. It doesn’t matter how strong a coward is
Trump is scum, one of the biggest on earth same as his russian counterpart. Claiming the ceo of USA is a puppet of a country 10 times weaker is ignoring the scale and capabilities of US government military.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_military_installations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010s_global_surveillance_disclosures
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinations_by_the_United_States
Yes, I am ignoring the US military; because it is irrelevant. It’s like arguing that a man’s car can’t be stolen because he’s a heavyweight boxing champion. How many bases do you need to build before the US is immune to sabotage and subversion? How much money do you need to spend on guns before disinformation campaigns don’t work? It is not as simple as one country being weaker than another. Different countries have different capabilities depending on what they have focused on. Russia has been building it’s disinformation pipeline for a long time and has always been very good at exploiting corruption. The US is not very good at defending itself from those kinds of attacks as experts have been warning for frickin decades. This is not a video game where election interference is only targetable on nations in your level range and national strength can neatly be condensed into a single number and compared.
Or have I misunderstood your argument and your arguing that Putin has nothing to force Trump to obey him? Yet still in that argument the US military and the assassinations are still irrelevant. Trump is Putin’s puppet not because Putin is a master manipulator dangling some blackmail over Trump’s head. Putin’s an unhinged, cowardly nutjob who spends most of his time hiding in a bunker marinating in the propaganda he himself commissioned. No, it’s because Trump is a moron who accepts simple answers and lashes out at anyone who tells him he’s wrong. Trump is a stupid man smart enough to know he’s an idiot but terrified people will realise he’s an idiot. He is a weak man desperate to be recognised as a strong one. So when someone who he views as a strong man dangles the potential for their approval in front of him he wags his tail like a good little dog. The former Australian PM talked about how Trump looked at Putin with awe to the degree that it was creepy. That is why Putin worked so hard to get him elected, why Trump spends so long on phone calls with Putin and why the military might of the US has no bearing on whether or not Trump will do as Putin tells him to. Trump is also very, very willing to accept bribes in whatever form they take and shown no limits to what he is willing to sell out for those bribes.
Trump signs deals and then just ignores them when he sees fit. He lies about everything. Look at what he is trying to do to Canada who he has a free trade deal with that he signed and said was the best deal ever. Guy is a liar.
Who had Trump and Putie collude to Own Ukraine on their Fascist Dictator Bingo cards?
I had “Ukraine is fucked” as the first thing on my list of outcomes if Trump won the election. Does that count? 😔
One is the result of the other, soooo… yes. We can count that.
That’s the free space
Now the EU should leak a report that says without USA’s guaranteed peace and NATO breaking up, chances for Russia to attack the EU are pretty much 100%, so better to tariff the USA to astronomical levels, use that money to fund the EU military and attack now before Russia has a chance to rebuild.
What I am most curious about is how long ago Trump and Putin first had a discussion about this arrangement, and what the quid pro quo details are. Because of course there is one.
How is Israel paying back? Or those are donations? 🤔
Trump is not a public servant, he is a crooked business man. He doesn’t think about making life on earth better, he thinks about ripping people off as much as he can get away with.
Sounds like my parents’ pastor
Ooof. That’s heartbreaking, I’m so sorry. :(
Nothing Trump has ever said has been “confidential” 😂
He could make a tweet saying he’s going to destroy the continent with a deathray tomorrow, and MAGA fascists would make a tiktok dance to celebrate it. There’s no Watergate this time around, only Leopard’s All-you-can-eat face buffet™
Except that one time he had that meeting with Putin without translators, and he ate the notes.
No, this is not a joke. I may be conflating two events.
He did meet Putin with no intermediaries. An intern also reported that he would eat notes from White House meetings. I’m not sure whether it happened at the same time but I would be completely unsurprised.
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Why do all of your posts straight up read like LLM slobber
Report the account
I had doubts, but scrolling through their comment history almost every comment is this length without much variation. Then I saw those were all just in the past eight hours. Seems pretty fishy to me.
Edit: I kept scrolling and wow, the sheer volume of comments this length is astounding. I would normally expect more variation in topics and comment length.
I noticed the funky format as well. Although some of the subject matter is on point, if you look past the prose
Sorting their account comments by oldest, you see some of that variation I was talking about. There’s about ten normal looking comments total, then two weeks ago they suddenly started with these long LLM looking comments, all about relatively serious topics. I don’t think it’s necessarily an actual bot, but maybe just someone using an LLM to expand or format their comments.
I don’t care to comment stalk anyone. If there’s a bit or some style choice going on that’s fine. It’d be slightly curious to learn about the process, but it’s fine if not.
Good user name too
Didn’t make the connection previously lol that’s good
It’s really bizarre.
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All the highlighting
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