Summary
College enrollment among 18-year-old freshmen fell 5% this fall, with declines most severe at public and private non-profit four-year colleges.
Experts attribute the drop to factors including declining birth rates, high tuition costs, FAFSA delays, and uncertainty over student loan relief after Supreme Court rulings against forgiveness plans.
Economic pressures, such as the need to work, also deter students.
Despite declining enrollment, applications have risen, particularly among low- and middle-income students, underscoring interest in higher education. Experts urge addressing affordability and accessibility to reverse this trend.
Colleges are also trying to address this by seriously lowering standards.
One thing I make money doing is essentially getting intellectually disabled people through college. I’m not ragging on my clients, but it’s become very clear to me that universities are less interested in educating these people than they are taking their parent’s money.
I was looking through one of the discussion forums for one of my clients’ English classes and it was genuinely horrifying. I’m talking R1 university, and the majority of the posts were either “AI” generated or were written at a middle school level.
It’s prolific, for certain. I have been reading research papers for a laboratory class (3000 level) that are written over the entire semester with a group. They contain errors so horrific that I don’t understand how the student passed any writing class. There were entire paragraphs without a single complete sentence, and others where another paper was cited without any connection to what was being said.
I’m not joking when I say that our response at the academic/instructional level during the COVID pandemic has ruined the intellect of a segment of the population. Combine that with the push I saw ten years ago while working in lower grades to pass students to the next grade regardless of their capabilities and the greed of colleges to get those first year students, as Maggoty mentions, and it’s a perfect storm.
I noticed that too. I was thinking about how housing was getting more and more restricted on campus to cater to ever greater numbers of first year students. And then it dawned on me that the second, third, and fourth year groups weren’t growing by much. In fact the second you got out of first year classes it was suddenly possible to have 15-20 person classes in main requirements.
I wonder how many other universities are treating first year students as cash revenue? Bringing in as many as they can, knowing they won’t make it past spring semester?
Unless you’re going into a field that requires it for licensure, there’s no point. You can always demonstrate skill instead. And while that isn’t good enough for a lot of people to hire you, it’s often good enough to start your own business.
Combine that with diminishing human rights and increasing corporate rights. It starts to make sense to become a corporation yourself rather than a formally educated worker. More pay, more protection, more freedom of choice, and less debt.
“Student loans” are now one of the most ubiquitous phrases in politics and it’s synonymous with “a burden you can never escape” so it makes sense that the folks who can use assistance will avoid it. The entire fight about student loans has always been to highlight the cost and make some folks turn away from higher education all together. Education has always been under attack for as long as most of us have been alive and this is another front in the war.
First they attack public education and exhaust teachers with overwork with underpayment. Now the right wants to attack Academia, the source of science which shows how destructive the current system has become and how it will evolve. Elon will probably entirely axe FAFSA and funding for higher education, with the aim to have their endowments fed by wealthy elite who dictate what makes it onto a syllabus. The right is so fucking exhausting.
American student loans are a scam anyways. The interest rates are outrageous and the federal government subsidizing them, but then they get handled by private businesses in a system know for failure and fraud.
Student loan forgiveness shouldnt be a thing. It shows that the system is trash to begin with and the “forgiveness” remains arbitrary and is just a carrot on a stick.
Make a system where the loans are granted directly by the government and dont incurr interest. No for profit skimming middleman, no permanent debt. Offer a regulated bonus for people who pay back X% before Y years pass, so people are incentivized to pay back quickly, rather than delaying payback.
More importantly remove the outrageous enrollment costs per semester.
The interest rates are outrageous
They’re in line with other loans.
It’s outrageous that a loan for higher education comes with an interest rate at all. The increased productivity of a college graduate should cover the need to profit off the loan. Extra silly because as a graduate you only see compensation for a paltry fraction of that increased productivity.
They’re in line with other loans.
Which is the problem. Loans used to be 3%, now they are 7 to 8%
7% is a scam. You wouldnt buy a house on 7% interest rates. And an education seems to be a safer investment. Especially for the government that should have an interest in education to drive the economy.
Where do you think housing mortgage rates were a couple of years ago?
They used to be at 3-4% in 2019-2020. Holy hell, you are at almost 7% now. Let me reprhase then: the US is a scam. 7% on a 30 year mortgage means you pay about 40% interest in total on the loan amount.
Depends, some are some aren’t.
However, in my opinion, the thing that makes student loans crazy is how the payments are structured.
With other big lifetime loans (mortgage, car, etc.), they are structured with a fixed term and the interest is factored in from the beginning. You pay $X a month for Y years, and that’s it, it’s all paid off. All you have to do is keep up with those payments, and you know how much they’ll be from the time you agree to the loan.
Student loans are structured more like credit cards. If you just pay how much they tell you to, interest will accrue, the loan grows, it capitalizes, and the term is indefinite. You can pay on it consistently for decades and never make any progress.
There’s practically no assistance to figure out how much you really need to pay, and sometimes even attempting to overpay to cover the interest doesn’t help, as they’ll apply the extra towards the next payment instead, and so extra interest still accrues.
Is it a scam when it’s your only option? Seems more like a gouge to me.
It is cheaper to live in Europe for the duration of the degree. I have friends who did this.
It’s on the same level as loan sharking
Yeah, but you generally don’t have the choice of either going to a loan shark or not being able to have the career you want for your life.
I’m just thinking ‘scam’ is the wrong word when no one except the wealthy have any other real option. The military and athletic scholarships, I guess?
Racketeering.
For me it seems as if those subsidized and guaranteed loans were a bad idea (a system with positive feedback) in their entirety.
The reason education costs are so outrageous is the market created by their existence. And the loans themselves are a perpetually growing moneymaking machine. It’s like pouring water into Saharan sand.
I so hope this is true. We have an extremely anxious teenager waiting for his early decision results expected out this week. I hope for every advantage he can get
Concerning? To whom? The people who profit massively off of students, many of which are going deep into debt?
I would say it is concerning for the future of America maybe?
I dunno, just a wild guess.
Personally, I think the fact that people believe they need to go to college as a prerequisite to success is part of the problem.
I honestly think college is mostly a cultural staple for middle income families at this point. It’s four years of “discovering yourself” and postponing adulthood.
The benefits of a college education are pretty difficult to quantify, unless your intended career requires undergrad.
However, building a career from 0 is pretty painful, and I don’t think most people would have the stomach for it.
An individual person does not need to go to college to be successful, no.
A nation of people will want a certain % of its population to be at least college educated for a myriad of reasons that I don’t think I need to explain here (including to be successful).
When we see a trend of that % decreasing, it makes sense to take notice.
Think of how stupid the average person is and now imagine how stupid they are if they are 5% less educated on average
Wonder if it has to do with all the “college bad. Why go to college for $100k for a $40k job…” social media trends and the “get rich on social media” trend, along with the fact that college can be really expensive.
Incoming graduates saw an entire generation go to college at the highest rates ever just to find a job market that left a record number of them with debt still on their name more than a decade later.
What were once institutions devoted to academia, have become corporate training camps ran by a board that runs the institution with a corporate mentality, and they enrich themselves commesurately.
Is that in line with fewer potential students being available? The last millennials are done with school now and the generation replacing them aren’t as numerous.
The American environment of work is going to get a little wild over the next few years. If your job isn’t a blunt necessity like an Arborist, or Fireplace technician or something, I’d consider leaving.
u?
I’m a mechanic. We make our own rules. World goes to shit? Inflation gone insane!? Don’t care. Pay up or no car.
Until nobody can afford to own a car…
looks around
…right now?
It’s a little early.
I grew up being repeatedly told that college is absolutely necessary to get a good job and a secure future. And because you’ve been told it’s necessary, they can get away with such a sharp increase in tuition costs. What are you gonna do, not go? Nah, you’re gonna sign on the dotted line and put yourself into debt like all the adults told you to.
I’ve got a degree in a good field that’s supposed to pay well. But the job market is such a mess that I never actually got my foot in the door - everything that claims to be entry level asks for five years of experience in a piece of software that has only existed for two years.
College used to be an investment, now it feels more like a gamble.
I faced that for an extended time after graduating with a Bachelor’s. There were so many jobs asking for impossible experience, or jobs vaguely related to my field at exploitative pay that required a Bachelor’s. I did manage to find a decent job (still shit pay) but only because of a connection.
For my college, tuition would not be impossible with an ok job. When I read the headline I read it more as younger people seeing college as a scamthat can’t even get you a job after the ordeal of all the schoolwork and money lost.
A thing that upset me when I went to college (15ys ago) was all the fluff electives I had to take. More than half of my classes were not associated with my major. I was looking into getting a masters a few years ago and one of the requirements was American History, again! I learned all of American history in elementary school, and all of it again in middle school, and all of it again in high school and again for my bachelors and I need to do it again for a Masters? Add along more sciences and math classes for an art related major. While I understand in building well rounded students, a lot of it seemed like it was meant to just beef up the number of classes I needed to pay for.
The number of electives needed was also enough where you only had two options.
- Keep your part time job and take additional winter, summer or night clases and pay extra to get them in.
- Have no job and fill your whole schedule with classes (each class was 3hrs long)
Electives requirements for a masters is bonkers. I was trying to do one in ed and one school I talked to was really picky about what they’d give me credit for (like I needed a Shakespeare class and my undergrad tragedy class didn’t count even though we read a bunch of Shakespeare in it). After everything they said I’d basically need 3 years for it. I said thanks but no thanks and went and found a school with a 1 year masters program haha
It’s a bit ridiculous. I think many majors could probably be done in 25-50% less time. You doing it in 1yr vs 3yr is a good example of it.
As someone who has a STEM degree and works in a STEM field, I have the exact opposite opinion. I did not know my major for ~2 years (though I was leaning in a direction), so I took a number of courses that I otherwise would not have needed. And I am SO FUCKING GLAD that I did as I now have an actual well-rounded education. I truly don’t even think you are aware of what you’ve missed out on.
Interacting with engineers on a daily basis, it is immediately obvious to me just how damaging it is to silo education so much. These people are incapable of thinking critically about anything outside their very specific area of expertise.
Good luck trying to discuss politics with an engineer.
I now have additional student loan debt that I would not have otherwise had. But it was 100% worth it. The most useful courses that I took were completely unrelated to the degree I ended up getting.
How much do those extra classes cost and why is it the responsibility of the a job certificate program to have those? Those extra classes could be taken at your leisure after you have a job.
Good luck trying to discuss politics with an engineer.
I have never had a problem finding a stem major with political opinions. Most far more radical then what you’d be comfortable.
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Basically everything is connected in many ways. To be a great cook you need to learn math, history, science, biology, etc.
There are plenty of institutions which allow you to only take courses relevant to your degree, but they are trade schools.
What you’re describing sounds like a liberal arts school. That’s kind of the point, at least for undergrad.
Electives are pretty commonplace and definitely not restricted to liberal arts, even for STEM undergrads.
My buddy with a computer science took water color and film classes. Issue is more bring forced to do it rather then take more relevant classes.
That’s just how undergrad goes usually. One of my undergrad degrees was science but I still had to take english, history, art, etc. Once you get to grad school it becomes more focused, but part of the point of going to college is to get a well rounded education. Otherwise, you could just pursue certifications.
I thought the point of college was to get a paper so I can a job that tells me to forget everything I learned. Plus ppl only cared about GPA. No one askes about electives.
Not OP, but no actually. My degree is an ABET accredited B.S. and I had to take about a years worth of classes (over the course of the four years) that had nothing to do with my degree (e.g. psychology, sociology, philosophy, etc.) Their “rational” was that it was to make students more well rounded human beings and members of society.
While I appreciate the sentiment in theory, I have to disagree with it in practice. For people like me that find those topics interesting already it seemed like a waist of time and money. While I did learn some new concepts it’s mostly stuff I had already learned in my free time or would have come across sooner than later. For most of the other people (who tend to be uncurious outside of their specific niche skill set or interests) most of the information and lessons end up being lost on them as it doesn’t really stick.
I’m sure they were some people it was beneficial for, but I doubt it was the majority.
Then again I’m not sure my view of the college experience was very typical. I was basically taking care of myself in some capacity by middle school and got a full time job during highschool in IT after my junior year via the trade program. I was living on my own and working full time while going to school full time. I’d go from work where the next youngest coworker was 10 years older than I was and people twice my age respected my opinion and person to classes where I was treated like an irresponsible child.
However, I would then over hear or observe other students taking about how surprised they were by various aspects of living away from home or “being an adult” and I couldn’t help but just think “… yeah that shouldn’t be surprising, are you dumb?” (never said out loud or to them, I knew I was in the minority with my experience, but it was surprising).
The problem is that with the quality decline of high school education college education has become all but a requirement for white collar jobs. Yes, the skillset you’ve been taught is going to be painfully out of date, but the fact that you have enough preserverence (and money ) for college means that you at least won’t be autofiltered by employers.
Zoomers are unaliving the college debt industry
Congratulations on pricing people out of a college education, have fun with that.
Don’t feel even an ounce of sympathy for these assholes. As someone who works adjacent to academia, we’ve been talking about the “enrollment cliff” for a few years now. The solution universities have come to is that they should cut admissions requirements to make sure anyone with money can enter their institution, and then do as much creative accounting as necessary to cover up students’ failing grades. They’d rather become degree mills than look at the real problem; their tuition costs.
As a post-doc, I was selected for a leadership academy that put me in close contact with upper administration at a public university. We would meet weekly and have a project to work on over the course of the two month experience.
During our discussions, I was always curious about how they used data in their decision making. So one day I asked how are our students doing in the long run? How do we assess the effectiveness of the education we are providing them?
They did not know, they do not collect such data. What was most shocking to me, though was the degree of resistance that they put up to even talking about the idea of creating such feedback systems.
Shortly thereafter I left academia forever with a lingering sense of disgust at the willful ignorance of any institutinalized academic.
Eh. I don’t really want my school knowing everything about me. I shouldn’t need to provide them my data and they shouldn’t ask for it.
Yes there should be accountability etc. but the deal was that I’d pay them for an education and that’s what I got. If Big Alma Mater wants to know whether I’m “successful” then too bad, that’s not part of the deal.
Sorry we just passed the law. You can expect an Alma Mater SWAT team to show up and torture you for the information.
Jokes on the SWAT team. Every time I move my alumni association immediately finds me and sends me lovely brochures asking for money. They already have my data and probably yours.
They have time to google. Not magic, just time and mandate to use the resources at hand.
I think ya might have missed the point
I know my university at least gathered that data after I graduated. Kept getting emails about if I had gotten work in my field, salary, etc. I never answered and I have no idea if they would even make use of it but there was an attempt. This was 20 years ago.
I suspect it wasn’t actually the university contacting you, but instead it was the alumni association.
Alumni associations aren’t usually a direct unit of the university but sort of an auxiliary org. Alumni associations want the data to further their own interests but they are primarily interested in you as a source of donations. They are often at odds with central administration, a difficult relationship because the associations do gather funds but have an agenda that is often at odds with the administration.
My university calls and asks for money on a weekly basis and has the audacity to employ current students to do it. I feel terrible for the kids. They have a script asking these questions. What do I do now? What advice do I have for them?
I used to be normal and tell them to study and go to office hours. Now I tell them the University does not care about them or their success/failure. They only care about being paid for 4 years. I always end with telling them : if you or your loved ones are going into any debt at all for this…leave.
I know that I must sound like some disillusioned alumni that was screwed by the system and an outlier. I’m not. I am doing objectively better than most of the people I graduated with. But if I am one of the few success stories of my many peers, and my University knows absolutely nothing about my strategies after undergrad, then how can they hope to advise students to do the same?
I just see the scam for what it is, and hope I can be a catalyst for at least a few kids to get out before financial ruin. You can get an amazing education from community college/studying at home/khan academy/trade schools. It is all in how much you apply yourself and has nothing to do with how much you paid.
It is difficult to express the depths of my disappointment of any human assembly above about 2000 people.
Let us common shitheads figure out how to properly home/pod school kids or something. It only takes 2-3 hours average to educate a small passel to the point of independent learning.
It’s not really concerning when it’s just plain impractical to go unless youre pursuing stem.
