Summary
Bernie Sanders criticizes the Democratic Party for neglecting the working class, leading to their recent election losses.
He highlights issues like economic inequality, job displacement, healthcare costs, and foreign policy as key concerns for the American people.
Sanders questions whether the Democratic leadership will address these issues or remain beholden to big money interests.
God fucking dammit he should have been the fucking president in 2016. Fuck this timeline.
Gore should have been the president in 2000
The only focused Democratic message for the past 8+ years has been, “We need to stop Trump,” which I agree with, but without Trump, I can’t think of a single, unified message. That’s not enough to get the general population fired up and excited to vote for Dems. One thing that made Obama so popular was he had specific goals and gave people hope.
Trump, in the meantime, has been feeding people all sorts of promises and hopes and dreams. They’re all terrible and full of shit, but that is a more powerful message than just, “We need to stop Harris.”
You know what does excite the dems though? And also the republicans?
Actual progressive policies……
As close as this election was, if Bernie betrayed the Democratic Party and ran as an independent in 2016, do you think he would have won
I do
Funny how none of that ever gets even close to reality though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It used to be maddening, now it’s just disappointing
He’s truly a rare breed. The first (and only) politician to get a sign in my yard once upon a time
I’m also legitimately convinced that the average American person is just an asshole and likes other assholes. Trump is the most conceited, whiney, cry baby, know it all, jagoff and everybody knows it. He wears it like a medal. And people love it man. They just eat it up.
It’s just like Carlin said. The politicians come from us. Because they are us.
I don’t know, I try to be a little more optimistic. over 250million eligible voters, only 70million voted for Trump. That’s less than a 1/3 and could be lower if you included the entire population. People will spend extra time to pursue things that will benefit them directly, there just needs to be better communication about the good things that will benefit them for their time, not the things to be fearful of because people will tune that out (as shown by the voter turnout).
Truth!
Trump is the most conceited, whiney, cry baby, know it all, jagoff and everybody knows it. He wears it like a medal. And people love it man. They just eat it up.
That’s the thing. I’m sick of the media painting this as a “they’re holding their noses and voting” thing. This dude doesn’t win despite his vulger rallies and his racist, sexist, homophobic, crazy, whiney, criminal, and arrogant behavior… He wins because of that shit.
Hey Bernie:
Thanks for being a democratic hack for years and years. You rage against them and constantly try to dunk on them, but what’s your party affiliation? Oh yeah, that’s right, Democratic. Good job criticizing them while also being part of the problem.
Bernie sanders is the longest serving independant senator in united states history. Hes been criticizing the democratic party since the 1970s, you absolute muppet.
OK… so he’s been part of a party he feels is ineffectual and hasn’t solved anything since the 1970s?
Do you know what an independant is? Who would you prefer he caucus with? The gop?
Ask him, he’s seemingly the one very disappointed with the Democratic party.
Ok. Let me try again.
What would you do if you were bernie? Whats your course of action?
I would do the same thing: complain endlessly about the Democratic party while doing nothing to distance myself from them.
Spoiler alert: They will remain beholden to big money interests and continue to lose. God damn it.
So the working class had to be specifically told
- the democrats support unions
- the democrats support breaking up monopolies
- the cost of living is a complex issue with multiple causes that will take a very careful and calculated collection of regulations regarding home ownership, rent, taxes, and it’s not going to work for everyone, and it’s not going to happen overnight
- supporting and expanding social welfare programs helps everyone
What are they expecting? The Republicans will be able to write a law saying Netflix will be cheaper and have no ads?
This is an inaccurate claim by Sanders. Biden was the first President to walk a picket line with striking workers.
With union negotiations, he was pretty balanced. He did come down on the railroad strikes some after both sides got stuck, but they did get improvements beyond what management wanted to give. With the ports, though, he stuck with the workers and forced management to negotiate by refusing to override the strike.
Could the Democrats do more? Sure. But they’re still recovering from the fever that took the party over with Clinton in '92. There are a lot of people who believe that win was a meaningful approval of the pro corporate but not racist Democratic Party platform, when in reality Clinton only won thanks to Perot.
I don’t know that there was any magic messaging that Harris could’ve deployed this time around. I’m not sure there was any likely alternative even from a short post-Biden primary that could’ve done better than her.
Trump has everyone thinking he has some magic way to boost salaries and lower prices. And he railed against the elites more stridently and apparently people believed him.
On the other hand Google saw a lot of traffic with people asking if Biden dropped out so who knows what could have been done to avoid Trump 2.
Could the Democrats do more? Sure. But they’re still recovering from the fever that took the party over with Clinton in '92.
If that’s true, Jesus H. Christ, Democratic party, just get out of the way and let someone else fight fascism. If you’re “still recovering” 32 goddamn years later, you’re not recovering. That’s just a permanent part of the party identity. And the people are clearly not wild about what you’ve become if you lose to Donald Fucking Trump two out of three times.
So just quit.
Shut the party down and let something else take its place, because whatever happened in 92 is chronic and terminal, and you’re bringing the rest of the country down with you.
I think the American middle got taken by surprise at their own apathy in '16. Then in '20 they were motivated by fear. This week, they showed that they’ve simply lost faith in the Democratic party, plain and simple. That they’re tired of what they’ve been getting from the party and they’ll accept a horrible person over perpetuating the arrogance and inaction of the Democrats.
And while I can’t say I was too fed up to support Harris, now that Tuesday is behind us, as much as I despise Trump, I have to admit that the Democrats got exactly what they deserved at the ballot box: the same lukewarm apathy they’ve shown the American people the past 12 years.
Maybe they’ll finally get the message and put together a cohesive, intelligent, inspiring platform and message for the midterms, but if history is anything to go by, I’m guessing that this time in 2 years, they’re thrilled as fuck to take back the House (with too slim a majority to do much beyond hold up legislation), with progressives gaining slightly more seats than now, and the party as a whole will still have the same lack of focus, direction, and message…
…and I would bet money that this time in 2026 they still don’t have anything close to an idea of a possible presidential nominee that gets people excited.
Bernie is becoming a serious issue for Democratic messaging. He’s in the senate, he KNOWS what Biden has done for the working class. And instead of helping to promote that message to his millions of followers, he’s rather virtue signal. It’s really a sick game man.
Voters aren’t stupid. The reason so many people like Bernie is because he’s genuine and walks the walk. Supporting a candidate that doesn’t actually match his values would significantly weaken that.
The voters proved your theory wrong. Working class voted Trump or stayed home. How you you explain that… Because whatever Biden did… 1) it was not enough and 2) Harris promised more of the same.
That the overwhelming majority of voters are not just uninformed, uncritical, and apathetic, but actually might be morons? I don’t know.
Biden and Harris both have been fairly active in supporting labor and trying to tackle corporate Greed. Harris regularly talked about anti-gouging laws as well as the other items mentioned already. Biden was the most pro-union president we’ve seen in decades, had a strong NLRB, and was responsible for appointing the most active and effective FTC head we’ve seen in ages.
There are many many issues with the democratic party, but holy shit, being less supportive of the working class than fucking Republicans is absolutely not one of them.
That the overwhelming majority of voters are not just uninformed, uncritical, and apathetic, but actually might be morons? I don’t know.
Biden and Harris both have been fairly active in supporting labor and trying to tackle corporate Greed. Harris regularly talked about anti-gouging laws as well as the other items mentioned already. Biden was the most pro-union president we’ve seen in decades, had a strong NLRB, and was responsible for appointing the most active and effective FTC head we’ve seen in ages.
There are many many issues with the democratic party, but holy shit, being less supportive of the working class than fucking Republicans is absolutely not one of them.
That the overwhelming majority of voters are not just uninformed, uncritical, and apathetic, but actually might be morons? I don’t know.
Biden and Harris both have been fairly active in supporting labor and trying to tackle corporate Greed. Harris regularly talked about anti-gouging laws as well as the other items mentioned already. Biden was the most pro-union president we’ve seen in decades, had a strong NLRB, and was responsible for appointing the most active and effective FTC head we’ve seen in ages.
There are many many issues with the democratic party, but holy shit, being less supportive of the working class than fucking Republicans is absolutely not one of them.
I think you are right, but being better than the other guy was not enough apparently.
Edit: and I’ll informed voters might have a lot to do with who owns the channels used for information. The mainstream media is owned by billionaires, and the most popular podcasters/streamers seem to be right wing and in the pockets of billionaires.
Have you witnessed the corruption of Joe Rogan, it was very public and very obvious.
Harris said she could not think of anything she would do different from Biden in a period where Biden was remarkably unpopular and people are hurting, a lot. And she essentially promised them more of the same. “We won’t go back” is not a promise to move forward. And her promises to help people start a business and give child credits… does not help anyone not interested in starting a business, who already has kids or does not want kids. Everything was contingent on very narrow promises.
So the voters that needed change stayed home… They can say they did not vote for Trump and wash their hands of anything bad that happens.
Let’s see how it pans out.
Yeah, just like the republicans. Its the part of all this leftist shaming on here never addressed. I voted democrat because they were the lesser of two evils. At no time did I think they were going fix whats broken.
“Will the big money interests and well-paid consultants who control the Democratic Party learn any real lessons from this disastrous campaign? Will they understand the pain and political alienation that tens of millions of Americans are experiencing? Do they have any ideas as to how we can take on the increasingly powerful Oligarchy, which has so much economic power?” Sanders asked.
”Probably not”
Bernie has been the Cassandra of the Democratic Party for decades. They need to realize that it has gone too far. The insane wealth gap, which has surpassed pre-Revolution France at this point, combined with the unaffordability of everything has created a crisis that won’t be fixed by platitudes and vague promises.
People are desperate, afraid, and angry. Changing that to hope and enthusiasm requires real plans that average voters can understand and even more than that requires correctly showing people the source of the problem.
Being beholden to billionaires is the real problem. And all their money, advertising, polling, and other bullshit didn’t do a damn thing to help Harris. Take them on the way FDR did or give the country to republicans permanently.
The insane wealth gap, which has surpassed pre-Revolution France
Let that sink in
He’s 100% correct. This failure is a failure of the DNC to actually pay attention to what the voters want.
This election, like every failed election effort since 2000, was a referendum on the democratic party platform: neoliberal business as usual for the top 15% sprinkled with “we’re not Republicans”
I hope Kamala is having tea and eggs Benedict with dick Cheney tomorrow morning
“we’re not Republicans”
Trust us, we are different. Oh how specifically are we different? What a great question, is it not the best part of this nation to be able to ask such things. Anyway, as I was saying…
I hate how accurate this shit is
I don’t believe that it is. I believe that the problem lies in the fact that we’re not communicating effectively with the voting base. Her policies we’re not bad and effectively DID target the working class, for example child care and expanding taxes on the upper class. Her economic policies were strong and we would have seen benefits. However, none of this matters if this information isn’t getting to the voter base.
Conservatives are actively targeting Gen Z and nonpoliticals with absolutely bullshit lies - for example, staying that liberals are actually racist, that DEI is making things worse for people, and that our whole policy is based on insults and hatred. Of course, to anyone paying any attention, this is blatantly false…but to an outside viewer, whose struggling to make ends meet, who’s single and insular, whose constantly told that women have it rough (and nothing about how to deal with men’s problems) they find the conservative arguments start to gain roots.
We want to win next time? We need to talk to people. Tell them what being a man really means. That empathy, not control, is what a society like the US should be based on.
Harris went too far right in an attempt to court the Republican vote. She preached peace in Gaza but she campaigned with known war-hawk Liz Cheney and staunchly defended Israel. She said she’s going to stand up against big businesses and help the environment but she talked about having Republicans in her cabinets and not ban fracking. She campaigned on being tough on the border but expected immigrants to vote for her. She did a lot of stupid shit and no one wanted to pay attention because everyone was scared of criticizing her because of their fear of Trump. They literally ran on a “moderate” platform when campaigning against a far right fascist wanna-be dictator. This should have been a slam dunk victory for them.
Democrats need to get their head of their asses and actually have progressives run. Until then, all they will do is slide more and more to the right and disenfranchise more of their constituents who want their society to progress and not cater to the radicals.
This should have been a slam dunk victory for them
I mean, sure, if close to half of the country hadn’t become really, really shitty people with no morals.
It’s tough to win on points like you’re talking about when the core problem requires undoing a multi-decade cultural shift to having absolutely zero integrity and most of the 7 sins being core values
The what party? America still has more than one political party?
Edit: I don’t mean ‘both parties are the same, you knuckleheads.’ I mean there won’t be a Democratic party by the next election. There won’t be any parties but the Republican party.
That was already the case, remember when Harris was excited to get Republican endorsements and promised to put one on her cabinet?
It’s sad people keep trying to use these against her
Right?
With friends like these, who needs enemies?
Revisionism. Just last week you assured me that she was going to win, and that the republican party would collapse on itself. Hang on to your ego.
Yeah, I didn’t think the Dems could screw it up regardless of how badly they’re cosplaying right-wing nutjobs from 2004.
Either Americans oppose genocide more than I hoped, or they’re more bigoted than I feared. Dunno whether I’m too cynical or not cynical enough.
50/50 on that one. It’s just as likely they keep an opposition party to keep up appearances as many dictators do and have sham elections.
Kind of a distinction without a difference when it comes down to how anything works though.
If we’re talking about a distinction without a difference then we can admit that America is a one-party state that only pretends to be a two-party system.
No, sorry, I can’t admit that Hillary Clinton would have picked the same sort of SCOTUS justices that Trump picked, the ones that did things like end legal abortion nationwide.
I also can’t admit that Trump would have appointed Lena Khan to any sort of powerful economic position.
And I certainly can’t admit that Republicans had an infrastructure program considering they had four years to come up with one and never did.
Edit: If you want to say that the U.S. has two major political parties, one is center-right and the other is far right, I won’t disagree. But that’s a different issue.
But you have to admit that RBG didn’t step down during Obama’s term, that they let Republicans keep Merrick Garland out of the SC and gave them that seat, that they didn’t put Roe v. Wade into law during any of the chances they had to do so.
Admit that they were excited about Cheney and Bush’s kids giving an endorsement and never even bothered putting Sanders on stage at a campaign rally.
Admit that their presidential candidate underperformed the abortion-legalizing state ballot measures in every state that had one.
See my edit:
Edit: If you want to say that the U.S. has two major political parties, one is center-right and the other is far right, I won’t disagree. But that’s a different issue.
You telling me what I need to admit has nothing to do with your initial claim that it has only pretended to be a two party system. Do not move the goalposts.
What goalposts?
America has a capitalist monoparty that only pretends to be two parties so as to maintain the illusion of choice.
All I can do is hope that you’re wrong
Oh don’t worry! That’s what the checks and balances is for. There will always be a check to the executive branch. Sure the executive branch is Republican but the Senate won’t be-… Well wait okay it is but at least the house-… Well alright they’ll have the executive branch, the house, and the Senate, but the judicial branch is still going to be able to-… Well at the very least two of them are about to retire and will be replaced with ppl hand picked by president so th-…
Well at least the ice cream machines at McDonald’s can be fixed independently now… That’s something right?
Ain’t that something
Not to rain on your (already overwhelmingly underwhelming) parade, but how long do you think the progress made on Right to Repair will last?
I wonder why Bernie and other progressives don’t band together and announce their own party. With enough big names (especially Bernie) they could gather enough attention to be a viable third party that actually represents progressive and more left leaning ideas than the democrats. They have two years until the next local elections to get their foot on the race, I think they could get done traction if they actually go for that
There is a lot of “invisible” work that party orgs do. If you want to see why big names and attention alone don’t work, look at the Green Party. They have name recognition, ballot access and even get a bit of the vote each presidential election. What they’re missing is the “ground game” that gives the presence in nearly every race in every precinct, and the local engagement to actually win an appreciable chunk of elections every year (not just the presidential years).
Because they understand the spoiler effect.
We already lost. The time is now to work on something new. Tuesday and the 60 days before it were shut up and vote. Today and the next 3.5 years are shout and organize.
The Democrats have been spoiling elections plenty on their own
there is the democratic socialists of america that have a handful of elected officials, oddly not including bernie. it seems like they’re more of a sub party or organization within the dems though, not their own party
Bernie is not nearly as popular as most on the internet echo chambers would have you believe.
The fact is this is now a money game. Grass roots campaings and parties are more disadvantaged than ever at being able to get their voice out to people, especially ones that arent perptually over connected to the internet and forums.
In terms of grassroots support, he’s been very effective. This map is from 2020 when there was an actual primary but it does paint the picture pretty well:
Source of graph (it’s paywalled but I found the image directly in the search results and copied it lol)
Bernie purposefully did not do that because he did not want to be seen as another Ralph Nader. He believed working inside the system would do more good than doing a dirty break. I also wish he went in the direction of a break from the democratic party, but that’s just not who he is.
Sigh I was the same way but now I see that people just won’t get out out to keep evil men at bay. I had hoped we can stick with the dems until the GOP is not a threat and then make our break.
If we made a progressive party now I wonder how many dire hard dems will join?
Unfortunately I would think very few would care. For example, the Green party is very progressive, and comes with a TON of advantages electorally. They’re on the ballot in almost every state, run in local and national elections, and have a system all set up for nominating people, etc. When you look at the Green party’s platform, it’s very close to what the progressives claim to actually want. Yet most democrats just shit on them at every opportunity instead of voting for the platform they ostensibly believe in.
To be fair, most people only know Jill Stein. And a suspected Russian agent who thinks Wi-Fi causes cancer is not the best foot to put forward
While I personally do like Stein, I agree that others would be better. Stein didn’t even want to run, but the Green Party loses all the electoral benefits I mentioned if they DON’T run. Stein basically recruited Cornell West to run for the Green Party nomination, and there was a time when it looked like he would be the nominee. However, he dropped out because he didn’t want to do the campaigning work within the party to become the nominee. If he had actually been serious about running, he could have clinched it and I think would have gotten a ton more traction. From what I’ve heard, it seemed like he was scared to gain too much traction and potentially be a real spoiler. When he left the Green Party, someone had to run to preserve their electoral benefits, so Stein stepped in.
I’ve voted for the Green Party in past elections and will agree with this.
Bernie is lashing out. Republicans don’t walk the picket line, democrats do.
You are confusing every day no political or financial power democrats with the democrats leadership… Democratic leadership gave up on their base 80 years ago. Can you name one major accomplishment the democrats have done at the federal level? The ACA? Maybe? But that was just a bandaid on a bullet wound.
ACA wasn’t even a bandaid. It only helped the middle class by reducing and capping costs and removing preexisting condition clauses. The poors still couldn’t afford it, and were punished for that either by having to pay for the still expensive insurance or being fined at tax time. It’s not an insignificant reason we got trump in the first place.
Lol you’ve drank too much of the coolaid. The ACA was better than what we had before but still not even close to fixing our disastrous Healthcare System. Middle class people still can’t afford preventive care and the line between the poors and the middle class just gets smaller every day with the shrinking of the middle class. There is no marginal growth/change when we know the answer to this problem. Anything short of universal health care coverage cost none wealthy people their lives.
Im mainly angry at ACA for the exact reasons you present here. Many benefited from it but the people i spent the most time around people who still couldn’t access care. Healthcare must be universally free to be meaningful.
That said it did benefit people. Just not what it needed to be.
May point is arguing from the already compromised position didn’t bring about enough change.
I am not Naive to, the realities of this world.
I am not Naive to, the past pains and harms done to others that brought us to the current state of the world.
I am not Naive to, the fact that change happens slowly and rearly without violence.
I am not Naive to, the fact that I will not get everything I want financially, politically, or socially.
I am not Naive to the fact that those that oppose my beliefs and values may come to do harm to me and those like me.
I am not Naive.
But I do know what’s Naive.
It is Naive, to argue from an already compromised position.
It is Naive, to not take on other struggles as your own because those that wish to do harm are on your side.
It is Naive to, forget the lessons from the past.
It is Naive to, think those worse off don’t hold limitless potential.
It is Naive to, not argue for the most kind and empathetic position as possible.
Because the compromise will be less kind and empathetic than the compromises that came before.
We are not Naive.
He’s partially right.
Unfortunately, I think the bigger issue is that a majority of Americans are fascists or indifferent to fascism.
“But are there not many fascists in your country?"
"There are many who do not know they are fascists but will find it out when the times comes.”
majority of Americans are fascists or indifferent to fascism.
I’m not convinced of that at all. Here’s what I see:
A large portion of ignorant uneducated and easily manipulatable people who don’t even know what fascism is.
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Large groups of religious people who focus on voting red because Christianity, their churches, pastors, and religious groups, and the abortion issue.
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Actual bigots. There’s a lot of them and they like the racism, anti gay, nationalism, deportation stuff. Want women subjugated.
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Bullies, tough guys, “alpha male”, and the “get money” crowd. There’s a lot here too, and many in poor young black and Hispanic groups in addition to a lot of white males. Not necessarily bigots, but generally want women subjugated whether they know it or not (sex objects).
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The large group of just vote red without thinking because it’s what family and friend circles do and always have.
The above I think don’t understand fascism at all. Not educated or informed enough.
Edit: I would say to be “indifferent to fascism” you have to actually understand what it is, and I don’t think much of the maga crowd does. My opinion/speculation.
Did you completely miss this:
"There are many who do not know they are fascists but will find it out when the times comes.”
Yeah I also don’t agree. You honestly have to discard a lot of public information to force yourself into this level of ignorance. For nine years he’s told us he’s a proud piece of shit. If they didn’t listen for that long that’s on them.
Is it really so hard to believe that’s exactly how millions upon millions of people go about living their lives?
Yes, that does seem completely insane to people like you and me who don’t tolerate that level of willful ignorance in ourselves, but to someone else that’s all just noise that they tune out.
Ever heard the phrase, “Hell is other people“? I’m slowly starting to believe this existence is a punishment.
I didn’t say it’s hard to believe. It’s hard to stomach it, is my point. Yeah hell really is other people. After this, I now fully believe that most Americans wouldn’t piss on me to put out a fire.
We will always be known as a shameful group of probable idiots as a country, and we also will be known as happily setting the first huge fascist domino up then slapping it down carelessly. Autocrats around the world just got a blueprint that will work if they take advantage of idiots properly. We fucked the world, not just ourselves.
Existence is a blessing, and the lessons are hard, we just can’t cheat our way to the next level or graduation. We have fallen for the drive through mentality and that’s false hope and not laying change.
Your existence might be a blessing, but I live in constant pain with genetic diseases that I couldn’t prevent and can do very little about. The cost of healthcare has nearly bankrupted me multiple times, and Trump being elected again is most definitely not going to improve any of this for me.
My dear friend, I also have physical, genetic and financial challenges. The Democratic party did zero to alleviate any of them. I could, and in the past did, wallow in self-pity and I sometimes catch myself headed there again. Everyone has their own challenges, affording is opportunities to grow, stretch and develop. The election is a new challenge, an opportunity to free ourselves from “the devil we know.” We can seek new solutions, or go back to old ones forgotten by history. We can organize and demand again affordable living, job safety, living-wage, 40 hour a week jobs, equitability. People fought and died to give us these things and we pissed them away by being complacent, voting blue “one more election.” Roosevelt didn’t embrace the New Deal because it was the right thing to do, he did because it was politically expedient, and may have feared literally heads rolling. While I, we all prefer comfort and stability, peace and tranquility, domestically if not abroad, we’ve grown complacent and cowed. This is our “dangerous opportunity” to get back what was lost, and perhaps more. If we fail to do that, we will face more consequences of our actions and our instrument inaction.
Fwiw, I’m supposed to be on about 20 meds, several considered absolutely necessary. I’m on none, largely due to financial constraints. I’ve found alternatives for Manny, the rest turned out to be oversell. Diet and exercise can heal a lot. Herbs can heal more, but do proper research and mind contraindicate. Perhaps exercise isn’t doable for you. Seek alternatives and please join me in working for change.
The abortion issue is part of fascism. It creates a lower unequal class out of women.
I’d say most of the maga base don’t know this though. Complete ignorance. Just “libs kill babies” is their thought process.
I have a hard time thinking that someone who is dumb and manipulatable by a fascist, is actually a fascist themselves. They’re just dumb and easy to manipulate.
Completely disagree, a person doesn’t have to understand what fascism is to be a fascist or indifferent to fascism, any more than they need to be an expert on dogs to not kick or oppose kicking one.
Kindly, I disagree again lol.
Indifferent:
Having no particular interest or concern; apathetic
I still argue you need to understand it to be indifferent about it specifically. However, I do believe these people are indifferent to having a desire to learn what fascism actually is and actual historical contexts.
But we can agree to disagree 😀
Edit: oops “to be a fascist” yes I’ll agree with you on that one sorry. They can be fascists without actually knowing that they are and how to define it.
Actually I changed my mind and disagree with my other comment LOL.
I still find it hard to call an extremely ignorant uneducated person a fascist, who is being manipulated by an actual fascist leader. They’re just potentially being manipulated. The dumber they are, the easier to manipulate.
Some or even many of these people conceivably would change their stances and choices if provided with lots of education. Some.
Ignorance ultimately doesn’t excuse or justify their actions. Your beliefs aren’t as important as your actions. Not to say that they should be dragged behind the shed and shot, but that actions have consequences and they need to be held accountable for theirs. If somebody votes for a fascist leader and supports a fascist political party, they’re at least collaborators in fascism.
You have to treat these people like they’re in a cult, because that’s what’s happening here. Trump’s rhetoric this past year has been eerily similar to Jim Jones near the time that they all drank the Flavor-Aid (almost identical, even). And when dealing with cultists, it’s important to remember that not all of them can be saved. After a certain point, even if they recognize that they’re in the wrong, most cultists will double down rather than admit that they were wrong - because they’re in too deep and to admit that they were fooled would be to admit that their entire life has been wrong and that what they did wasn’t justified.
Hope that you can make them realize why they’re in the wrong, but be prepared to grab the knife that they might pull on you. Because that’s probably the more likely scenario.
A mage once said that in mistaking poison for wine, the mistake doesn’t forgive and save your life. Bad paraphrase.
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Man, if he’d form a populist left party and stop caucusing with the Dems, he might get a lot of enthusiastic support and candidates running locally soon
Yes please. Channeling my energy towards this future.
We could also do this ourselves, if we could find a way to organize it.
I’m sure with enough attention he’d acknowledge, and maybe support it.
It may sound silly but what’s the alternative?
I really think ranked choice voting is the answer here. It will open up the opportunity for third parties to actually gain traction.
Definitely need to change our voting system. I really like Veritasium’s recentish video on voting systems. Sounds like approval voting is even better than ranked choice. Anything but first-past-the-post, please!
Me too but how are we going to get that changed before the next election?
Before ranked choice voting we need at least one party to rally around with a candidate that focuses on popular issues. Once we have someone in office that will commit to those issues we can then talk about these kinds of changes.
A good place to start would be at the state level since states run their own elections. For that all I can suggest is to get more actively involved in local politics than you ever have before.
Of course, that’s assuming we have another election.
Never underestimate the obstruction from establishment Democrats at every level of government. We passed a bill authorizing statewide use of ranked preference voting in CA and our neoliberal democrat governor Gavin Newsom vetoed it. I generally support his policies but this one was a flat out “fuck you” to everyone alienated by the neoliberal business as usual party that runs our state.
The answer to obstruction at every level of government is to push back at every level of government then.
That means getting involved in local government. You. Me. Us. All of us. Starting now.
I’m nearly pissed off enough to try and run for local office myself now and I hope others also feel that drive.
Only reason I haven’t done it is because I’m a nobody retail worker with no money. I can’t afford to upend my life to go campaign. And I feel that a lot of other people are in a similar boat. But I also feel that the last hundred years of American politicians have been so far up their own asses that having a regular everyman in office like myself can’t possibly be worse.
We should be able to take out a business loan or something to run for office. But also we shouldn’t have to do that.
That’s a good question. I think we need a massive push towards it, from our local officials all the way to the top. Bernie may get onboard.
True but nothings going to happen until we both demand it and actually do something about it.
The time to be hopeful that one of the major parties has an awakening is over.
Absolutely. I think that the best path of action is to let our local politicians know clearly that this is the desire of their constituents, and push hard to vote in candidates that support this. All of these politicians started somewhere, so the best hope for change starts locally and grows from there as word gets out.
We must only support candidates whose main policy position is electoral reform.
A third party, eh? Nah, he needs to take over the Democratic Party once and for all.
No let it die.
No there needs to be a place for “moderates” and embarrassed former-republicans to gather. The actual left can mobilize around Sanders and the current Republican party can die.
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He had momentum, the DNC, also run by our oligarchs denied him of the opportunity.
Not for long
Bernie kicks ass like a kung fu fighter
Dems lost this election Bernie is still kicking and just won his seat back easy peasy
Dude is an old motherfucker but kind of in the same way Samuel L Jackson is a bad motherfucker
The DNC needs to allow voters to elect who they actually want during the primary. We were force fed Hillary because the DNC didn’t want Bernie. We didn’t even have a primary because we were force fed Biden, then given Harris because Biden was so unelectable. The DNC must allow democratic process to take place so that voters elect the presidential candidate that they want.
The DNC is too old and too set in its ways. They’re like a bad police force- unreformable.
The only way forward for the DNC is to visibly jettison their old guard and hope enough voters give them another shot- which is also a maybe at best. Losers lose.
Did Hilary not get more votes from the public than Bernie?
we don’t do that anymore, having “democratic” in party name is enough. be prepared to have liz cheney as nominee with ben shapiro as her running mate in 2028.
Democratic party aside, Bernie couldn’t get the votes. I actually think the news media has been a much much bigger problem with someone like Bernie getting power. They always try to paint someone like him as being radical, when anywhere else in the world he would be a normal person on the left.
The issue with Bernie is that everyone knows he’s a socialist. If there was someone else who presented the same ideas Bernie has while also saying “I’m totally not like Bernie” people would actually vote for that candidate. Most Americans are closeted socialists, they’ll in favor of socialist policies as long as you don’t call it socialism.
I have a feeling that that might change after this election. There’s a real sense among liberal media (that I engage with) that a loss of this magnitude needs to be answered by a pretty substantial break with the status quo.
I’ll believe it when I see it, there is too much money to be made by selling division and overblown narratives.
they’re too busy sanewashing totally normal ideas like seperating children from parents, tariffs on every import, and mass deportation. Totally rational positions squarely in the overton window.
What will they say about the concentration camps those immigrants are rounded up into? What will they say about the military being deployed to round up residents? I guess we’ll find out.
Taxing billionaires though, how radical
