I will preface this by saying I understand that I am more radical, revolutionary, and extreme of a leftist than most. Despite that, I still ask that you actually engage with this as I’m asking in good faith.
When is enough enough? We have elected a fascist into the highest office and handed the keys to him and his friends. Is now not the time to actually get organized, involved, and armed? In my opinion, the time for peaceful, democratic means of avoiding fascism was before the election. But we have failed to do so, and as such there will soon be a tyrant in power. Are we going to wait until troops are rolling down the street to stage any form of resistance, because by then it’s far too late. Now I want to be clear that I am not advocating for random acts of violence or an insurrection like January 6th. But is this not a point of radicalization? Is this not where we start organizing within our communities and getting involved in mutual aid and resistance? How much more do we need before people are actually ready to stand, fight, and maybe even die to avoid continuing down the path that we are on? Fascism is not on the horizon, it is here. Are we really to do nothing about it as a society except lay down and accept our fate? Because that doesn’t jive with me. That makes absolutely no sense to me.
ETA: To the people responding, I will admit that I was heated and frustrated when writing this post. Having had time to cool off, reflect, and get some differing viewpoints my stance has changed to focus more on what needs to happen first and what’s practical. You may have seen that in my responses. That being said, I don’t disagree with what I said here, and I’m still frustrated we’re at this point at all. I’ve linked a comment though that elaborates upon what I actually want to see done though, which is a lot more reasonable and is still inline with this post.
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I’d say over half. I and many others in my circle are already executing on our escape. If we even can…
America is done.
For those that can’t leave, find a community, build a commune, and support each other. Strength in numbers.
Right now. I’m done with this shit.
Wait. Life as we know it isn’t over yet. Let the man actually get into office and see if he’ll actually work for the majority this time around. But the second when he again charges the taxpayers to pay for his visits to Mar-a-lago again, then be pissed
Fuck off.
No
I’m not saying to start building pipe bombs, but waiting for the fascist to fascism before organizing sounds like a terrible strategy.
I’m not saying that at all. What I’m saying is wait until the inauguration at least
I think organizing needs to start immediately. There’s no downside to organizing, even if we’re massively overestimating the amount of fascism we’ll see
Were you there for his last term? Seriously dude are you kidding?
Australian here. I see in America a similar pattern than what happens here, one party (conservative) receives a functioning government and proceeds to fuck things up with absurd policies while at the same time immediately claiming credit for the state of the country as soon as they get into power. Takes years to change the momentum of a country and by the time a new party is elected the country is almost bottoming out at which point the new (left leaning) party spends most of their first term fixing things up only to get blamed at the next election for being in power when things turned to shit. The electorate will never understand that a new government needs years to undo the fuck ups of the likes of the GOP. This time the Dems haven’t had enough time to fix up all the stupid shit the GOP did last time so I expect these next 4 years the country to hit rock bottom while the GOP is still in power and it will sadly be a moment of “Americans got what they voted for”
That has been happening here (US) for decades. The real problem is the escalation of stupid shit that Republicans do is on an exponential growth trajectory.
This happens in the US, Canada, and many other western democracies.
The difference this time is that it’s not just the GOP being shitty, it’s an unhinged Nazi who just got elected, and has spent four years purging the party of unfaithful.
So the only way of breaking the cycle is to keep the GOP in power for 8 or 12 years. Result is a massive decline and nobody to blame but themselves. But yeah, that probably won’t work because someone else still gets the blame…
It was going to take decades to recover from how badly Trump fucked up the government last time he was in power, and the economy was only just starting to recover. With another term, its unlikely we’ll be able to recover within my lifetime, my children will be left worse off than me.
We have to do both things. we have to get everyone we possibly can paying attention and work on peaceful ways to move ideas forward. i’m gonna keep saying make unions the base of* the dems. and point to minnesota who still has the democratic farmer labor party and pulles off some neat* shit.
there simply are not enough people available to do it quickly. it always ends with the people we claim to want to help being hurt. and we end up piled on top of them by some authoritarian we made a deal with.
now if you want to discuss disruptive actions that could need to be taken over the next few years. especially while throwing out the word arming. i’d like to kindly remind you we are in an armed police state on a Public. Fucking. Server. and point out that molitivcocktail hour does not announce itself and is never the option WE choose.
Couple of things:
- Revolution sounds good until it actually happens, and then it sucks. It unleashes all the crazies and the outcome is uncertain. And it tanks the economy.
- If you look at exit polls, people told you why they voted for Trump. Rightly or wrongly, they don’t believe he is a fascist, or at least that the US system won’t allow him to indulge his fascist tendencies. Again, I don’t know if they are correct, but that’s what most people believe.
- The majority believe that the wokism and identity politics of the left is a greater threat to democracy than Trump.
So, the answer to your question is that you won’t find much support IRL because most people don’t actually think they are supporting fascism. Time will tell if Trump is an actual fascist or just a blowhard. I wish we didn’t have to wonder, but there you have it.
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I understand that. I’m not advocating for an immediate revolution but organizing and building mutual aid networks to protect those that are gonna be hit hardest. I also personally don’t care about the economy; i think caring about the economy more than people is how we got here.
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I understand. It’s really fucked up but that’s why we need to organize first. Whether or not a revolution happens, it’s never bad to organize.
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The majority also elected a fascist; see point 2.
So, the answer to your question is that you won’t find much support IRL because most people don’t actually think they are supporting fascism.
Half the country doesn’t think hes a fascist, but the other half does. Especially around the area that I am, I’m not worried about garnering support.
Time will tell if Trump is an actual fascist or just a blowhard.
Those who lie in bed with fascists are fascists imo.
OK, so what does this mutual aid look like? Are you talking about organizing armed resistance for when the Gestapo come for you? Or more like food-sharing for when the revolution comes and destroys the economy you don’t care about? I don’t have a sense of what you are getting at.
I answered a lot more in depth in the comment I’m linking below. I will say i was very frustrated and emotional when writing this post, and having had time to cool off, think about it, and discuss it with some other people my stance has softened (which you might’ve seen in my responses, the one linked included). But I don’t disagree with what I said, just changed my focus onto what needs to happen first.
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Bold of you to assume I have my shit together enough to do any of this. Sounds nice though, and I wish you all the best.
If I smelled burning flesh near a prison I’d have to kill myself right then.
It’s been more than enough for a while now.
First of all, I’m not from the USA so take this with a grain of salt, but are you suggesting the election was rigged or fraudulent? Because if not you’re the one trying to impose an authoritative regime. Like it or not he was elected democratically, and this time you can’t even use the excuse that your voting system is weird because he also got the majority of votes. So the majority of people in your country think that he’s the correct person for the job, or in any case don’t oppose him.
So what you’re talking about is for a minority to raise arms against the democratically elected government. You are the one who’s being anti-democratic. Even if you were to win the revolution you would need to put a tyrant in power because calling a new election would result in the same outcome.
Like it or not the majority of the people in your country are stupid enough to either want that or not caring. That’s one of the dangers of democracy, but starting a revolution to remove a democratically elected president in the name of democracy is just as dumb.
but are you suggesting the election was rigged or fraudulent?
no.
Because if not you’re the one trying to impose an authoritative regime.
also no, I’m advocating for community organizing against a very obviously fascist regime. im advocating for mutual aid and self reliance. y’know, the things people who are typically targeted by fascists need.
So what you’re talking about is for a minority to raise arms against the democratically elected government.
again, not what I’m saying.
Even if you were to win the revolution you would need to put a tyrant in power because calling a new election would result in the same outcome.
not necessarily?
That’s one of the dangers of democracy, but starting a revolution to remove a democratically elected president in the name of democracy is just as dumb.
nowhere did i say i was fighting in the name of democracy. I do think democracy is generally good, although i do not view the US as a democratic country. but that’s not what im advocating for at all in this. I’m advocating for genuine survival under an oppressive regime and solidarity amongst the people against tyranny. if shit gets real bad, do i think it’s just to fight against it and resist? absolutely. but as I’ve said in other comments, the American people aren’t close to that yet. we need to organize first.
So what you’re talking about is for a minority to raise arms against the democratically elected government. again, not what I’m saying.
Then I recommend you crack open a dictionary and check the meanings of “get organized, involved, and armed”, “stand, fight, and maybe even die” (your exact wording). Because raising arms against a democratically elected goverrnment IS EXACTLY what you are saying, albeit that you might not be saying you necessarily want to start that fight, but it certainly looks like it to me.
Yeah, nah.
Don’t tolerate intolerance, same goes with authoritarians, use force to remove them.
Sure, but so far he’s just the democratically elected president, if after his term is up he doesn’t want to leave then absolutely kick him by force. Until then any attack is, by definition, anti-democratic.
I mean what you saw last night is exactly why your revolutionary movement will be snuffed out. If the fascist has that kind of popular support, there is no revolution, only martyrdom. Maybe civil war.
I disagree with violence until the elections are no longer free and fair.
Well its not exactly fair since the corporate media is siding with trump and sane-washing him, but elections are still, for the most part, legitimate.
Meaning, a majority of people actually support trump.
If you want to violently rebel, know that the people who didnt vote are mot gonna join your violent revolt.
If every Harris voter fight every Trump voter, they have a bigger number.
Besides, they have control of the military soon.
Dont destroy the system that still allows for elections until those elections have proven to be illegitimate.
Nobody knows who will rise out of the ashes of a revolt. You might end up with something worse.
What is the goal you’re trying to achieve? A more democratic government?
Cause it sure as hell looks like the majority of the population isn’t against fascism anymore.What is the goal you’re trying to achieve? A more democratic government?
That’d be great but I think at this point achieving something other than fascism would be nice.
Late 2015.
you’re sincerely asking americans, when is enough? dude
