Whenever they have a spike in demand, the de-regulated prices go up by several hundred percent. Example
Most of us don’t pay the market price hour to hour. Our electricity provider absorbs the risk of price spikes and raises our rates if the math stops working for them.
Griddy was a provider that sells at the market rate, which is usually below the general price you would pay, but you take the risk of price spikes during peak demand.
Thank you! So much misinformation floating around, its ridiculous.
Griddy
I’ve done lots of tech projects within the retail energy industry in Texas - this is the right answer.
To expand a little bit:
Retail energy providers (REPs), like NRG, ClearSky, Just Energy, etc. make their money by forecasting the amount of energy that will be needed as far in advance as possible and purchasing that amount from power generators like CenterPoint and marking it up a few cents. The farther out, the cheaper they can get it. I’ve helped build forecasting engines for a few that ingest historical usage data from meters (all meters in Texas are smart meters), weather data, and others to use machine learning to forecast how much individuals will need and aggregate it together to help the energy traders make better informed trade decisions farther out.
If they mess up or an unforeseen event happens and they don’t have enough energy bought for that time segment (forgot the term for a window of time they use), they have to go to the spot market which is where the prices fluctuate and can be many many multitudes higher than the rate the customers are contracted to pay.
In a storm scenario or a freeze, it can be thousands of times more expensive because demand is so high and supply is so limited. This is when REPs go bankrupt if they don’t have the cash on hand.
There are also insurance plans that the REPs pay for that cover very specific conditions for different types of events or outages that can kick in to cover the huge costs they would otherwise incur on their own buying electricity at that spot rate. I’ve known a few that were only able to stay operating because someone a few years prior had bought an insurance policy that covered said weather event.
Griddy died because of the ice storm in Texas a few years ago and the huge costs people incurred. I actually met with their CIO the year prior as part of a technology assessment of their stack. Nice guy.
Edit: also you can largely thank Enron and Rick Perry for deregulating Texas’ energy - which directly led to the terrible “performance” of the Texas grid during the winter storm Uri in 2021. Same for Enron in the constant blackouts in California in the early 2000’s.
I’d be shocked that anyone puts up with this, but then I remember how the healthcare system “works.”
They pay their savings directly into the pockets of bought politicians and corrupt energy execs.
By living in an area that has a regulated utility provider. One of the primary requirements I have when choosing a place to live is to make sure the utility provider in the area is a regulated entity.
I find it highly unlikely that a human being is deciding their living situation based on whether or not their utility provider is regulated.
Well I did, so shrug I guess I’m an outlier. My home search was very limited to one county so I could make sure we were covered by that city’s resources. Besides, I didn’t say it had to be the only reason. Just answering OPs question on how people live with those private unregulated utilities, which I did by avoiding them altogether.
More questions here than answers, unfortunately.
It’s my understanding that there is a cap at $5000/MwH ($5/kwH). That is still hella expensive, but would only be for a day or two at maximum?
For the headlines of +$16000 power bills, that is probably a one-off for heavy power consumers, like businesses that have massive freezers and such, correct?
I have a friend from high school that got hit with a something like $20,000 bill because he signed up for some discount program on his electric bill. The freeze a couple years ago did similar things to demand and he got hit with a massive bill.
I presume he couldn’t pay it? What happens after that? Do you get blacklisted from power companies?
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there is a cap at $5000/MwH
It’s MWh (megawatt hours). That’s only for wholesale electricity, which is available to retail electrical providers, not consumers. So your utility company can charge you whatever they want, but their price is capped. Funny how that works.
More info about the cap specifically available here. (PDF)
Ok, that clears up my misunderstanding then. I was thinking that the cap applied across the board. (That does change things a bit, don’t it?)
Not correct.
I have coworkers in Texas that got hit with multi thousand dollar bills during brown outs.
Deregulating critical services never ends well for the consumer.
A properly insulated industrial freezer should consume less electricity than a house with AC, even if it’s set at a reasonable temp.
TIL. It makes sense that they can be more efficient now that you pointed that out.
I’m curious as to how this would compare to a properly insulated home?
most the houses in texas are uninsulated to keep construction costs down. (despite the fact that even a minimal amount of insulation would pay for itself inside of a year or two.) (Why would you want to insulate against heat, right? global warming is a woke-ist hoax! /s)
New houses or ones built in the 1960’s? If its new houses, how does code not specify a minimum R value? Its not just about keeping heat in in the winter, its needed to keep the heat out in the summer.
texas doesn’t require a specific r-value for walls in the southern third of the state. (the rest it’s r-5). They do require some insulation in an attic.
Most (cheap) homes don’t slap up insulation if they don’t have to. and r-5 is an extremely low value.
and further, that’s only on new houses. There’s plenty of old houses still in circulation and the vast majority of the old houses are entirely uninsulated. a properly insulated house, you can keep rooms warm just by being in them. we saw that’s not true of homes in texas during the big freeze a while back.
Its not just about keeping heat in in the winter, its needed to keep the heat out in the summer.
that’s this sarcastic comment was about:
(Why would you want to insulate against heat, right? global warming is a woke-ist hoax! /s)
When I was growing up the people across the street had an uninsulated houses – in NW Wisconsin.
I guess Texas is going to do Texas things but with the heat and the grid falling apart every couple of years, they really should mandate the same level of insulation that we do up north.
they really should mandate
That sound you hear is Texas loudly pushing back on any sort of gubmint infetterance.
Did you mean interfetterance?
Yeah… I’m in MN.
It’s not like we don’t get triple digits ourselves in recent years. And it really does come down to shaving down those construction costs. The insulation would pay for itself in like 2 years, though.
That’s some next level owning the libs.
I’m certainly feeling owned right now. Ouch!
I live in Finland and me like a large number of other Finns have a plan in which the price changes every hour according to the market price. Typical price for electricity is around 4c/kWh in the summer and around 15c/kWh in the winter. However it’s not uncommon at all for the price to spike into 30c/kWh or even 70c/kWh. Last winter there was a day that it spiked to 200c/kWh.
How do we deal with it? By turning down/off the heating if possible and burning wood instead. If not then you just deal with it and have to pay significantly more for a few months. Then again if your plan has a fixed price to like 10c/kWh then that also mean you’re paying that even when the price drops to zero which also is not uncommon at all. Often happens several times a week during the summer time. Sometimes it even goes into negative. It’s still not literally free though since the transfer cost is around 6c/kWh plus energy fee and taxes.
So it costs you more when it costs more to produce, but when it’s free to produce it still costs you money.
Love corporations
No… First of all: electricity is never free to produce. Running a powerplant costs the same no matter what price the electricity is at. The price goes to zero when supply greatly overceeds demand. That means I’m not paying to the electric company for the electricity but I’m still paying for the company that maintains the grid to deliver that electricity to me. It doesn’t just magically hop from the powerplant to my house.
How do you keep up with the current price? Does your thermostat have a setting where if the price is above X then turn off? Do you just come home to a freezing house and say “oh the electric is too expensive, guess I’ll grab some wood”?
I check sahko.tk in the evenings to see if it’s going to be particularly expensive the next day. This is mostly in the winter time, at summer I hardly pay any attention to it. They usually warn people in the news too for the handful of really expensive days in a year. Depending how high it gets I might turn off the heating for the peak hours but generally not because it doesn’t really make that of a big difference as the prices average out over a long period of time. Some people have automatic thermostats that turn off the heating after the electricity price passes a certain limit. My water heater for example is set to go on during the night when electricity is at its cheapest.
Are the predicted prices ever crazy far off from what they actually end up being like what happened in Texas last winter? Where am outage causes price to go from like 20c/khw to 2000c/khw over a one hour period?
No, the prices are decided about 24 hours in advance and they don’t change after that.
Seems like a pretty sane way to handle market pressures, rather than, “I hope nothing terrible happens and my bill is suddenly thousands of dollars.”
Those are the wholesale prices to the utility company itself from the grid operators, not the prices to end users from the utility company. End users pay a flat amount per kWh that does not change by demand.
Most of us do. A few people do sign up for variable rate plans, and they did get astronomical bills during the snowpocalypse. IIRC they didn’t get any aid or anything, it was a small enough number of people that they just got hung out to dry.
Donebrach deleted their comment :(
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Most residents aren’t on these types of plans. The ones that are turn shit off, or pay through the nose.
Generally the ones that are on those plans are the most vulnerable. I’ve got a fixed TXU plan. The up front cost of being on it was a couple of hundred bucks because I had bad credit at the time. The pay as you go variable rate places don’t have that up front cost and when it’s not peak times they’re significantly cheaper.
Unfortunately they don’t always let people know in time when the rates spike. So these vulnerable people don’t even realize they should be turning shit off or they’re not home to do it or it’s a heat wave/ice storm where they could just fucking die if they turn off climate control.
It’s been a fucking mess down here in Houston. My electricity came up pretty quickly and I was able to head west and grab a hotel for a night so I didn’t get heat stroke. I’m lucky. I was able to come back and eat the brisket I smoked before Beryl came through (I’m a stereotype, sue me). But there are people who still don’t have electricity in this fucking weather and there are others who have to decide between their fridge and their AC.
I’m drunk, bitter, and pissed off tonight. So I’m gonna ramble.
Toss these guys a few bucks the next time your plan is up for renewal and see what rate you can get. Usually TXU is on the high side. https://www.texaspowerguide.com/
It is, but it wasn’t when I got on the plan. I happened to hit it at just the right time. I’ve been too lazy to shop around since then.
I’m gonna take that advice. I’m up again in either November or December I think. I need to go look.
Drunk, bitter, and pissed off. That should be our state motto. Cheers!
Just like to point out that Jerry Jones (the owner of the Dallas Cowboys) made almost $1 Billion, with a B, during the big freeze because he owns the natural gas fields and his good budy Governor Abbot said that wholesalers must sell for the max amount as allowed by law during that time, basically legalizing price gouging.
If it’s Republicans, it’s legal.
Wholesale or Retail? I couldn’t read the article.
They don’t
