300 million lbs of fireworks and 2.7 billion dollars gone in a cloud of smoke.
Bread and circus, boys, bread and circus.
I think people should get to do them! I don’t enjoy them, but whatever. If we could make louder noises, flashes and colors with environmentally friendly fireworks, that’d be awesome. I think the noise, flash and color of fireworks is what other people enjoy, but we all suffer the poor air quality afterwards. So I just want something that will make other people get what they want out of fireworks while not damaging the air quality
Fireworks are art. Art isn’t inherently wasteful.
Waste of money? No more so than any other form of entertainment that is temporary.
Environmentally, yeah…they’re pretty bad. Air pollution is a big issue. Some birds get killed when they run into things because they can’t see very well after being scared off by the fireworks. Any large human event is environmentally bad, like a sporting event.
We generate literal tons of plastic and other human waste when we gather for mass entertainment.
Okay so we generate literal tons of waste. There are also literally hundreds of millions of us, so “tons of waste” would happen if we gathered to eat brownies distributed on napkins.
Well that makes it all right then, doesn’t it?
Yep, typical what-about-ism
Yeah but at the end of the day we’re handing out explosives for people to play with, even kids. Just feels like it’s not the best form of celebration.
Yes. Injury and fires are compounding factors, no denying that.
We already know sterile environments make people allergic.
I am actually concerned about what kind of behavioral “allergies” will arise from a society with no danger. It is not a natural state and it is not something we should be experimenting with lightly.
Not a natural state? Lots of things humans do aren’t natural. Hell you could say playing with explosives is not a natural state. Danger in the wild makes you survive and balance needs vs risk. There is no need to play with explosives and if you need to see a kid lose a few fingers to know that then you’ll face many problems in life. I mean should we let kids play in traffic to learn about danger?
sterile environments make people allergic.
Where’s your science in this?
No allergist or dermatologist I ever met would ever make that claim.
The results are from patient to patient. There’s a whole subset of sensitivities to chemical makeup of the food and another set of sensitivities to the environment the food was grown in. Food and products have dramatically changed and this also creates a lot of reactions. Mass production of food introduced a lot of irritants which we notice now. Then you have a subset of sensitivities that are entirely based on changes in the body with hormone. And then there’s family history.
There isn’t a standard answer with allergies.
We already know what happens.
Anti-vax
Pro-war
Pro-authoritarianism
Anti-education
Etc.
Once you’ve divorced yourself completely from the dangers of watching family and people around you die from preventable diseases all the time, the horrors of actually having to live through your city destroyed and people you know be devastated by war, the crushing oppression and greed of authoritarian regimes, your education controlled specifically to prevent you from you getting any ideas about real freedoms, that’s what you get when you remove real danger from society.
But I think you probably meant something more mundane like kids will start making graffiti or something.
Well, I meant more like the dangers of nature.
Having your whole city get destroyed is an unnatural thing that comes with advanced civilization and armies. I’m totally fine with eliminating that kind of “danger” from the world.
But the danger of riding a motorcycle, or lighting firecrackers, climbing a tree, fighting a beaver, whatever, those are dangers on the level that we evolved to deal with.
Just like in the analogy with sterility, I’m fine with making environments free of bio weapons and meat industry goop full of mega bacteria and the kinds of biological threats that civilization itself creates. But getting rid of the base load of strange micro critters, that yes do pose some danger of sickness and even death, turns out to be taking it too far because it makes people more likely to have allergies and autoimmune problems.
Explosives are actually predictable. Way more predictable than people or animals, for instance. A person can protect themselves when handling explosives by being careful.
But these are just my theories about what the mechanism might be. At the higher level, by analogy it’s just there’s a system we have, that has evolved to protect us, but it’s evolved to learn from encounters with the thing it’s designed to protect us from. If you give ir no encounters, it goes haywire.
I don’t know what the mechanism might be exactly, but I worry our ability to navigate danger might itself be a system that can go haywire.
Ok, I follow. I think we’re already there. Plenty of people are doing stupid things that are dangerous, either out of ignorance, lack of forethought, or nowadays for clout on social media. Pretty sure people have been doing dumb things for a long time, but they were more lethal in the past.
in this part of the world, we are blessed with stray dogs who are also protected by our supreme court. it’s quite literally against the law, for example, to prohibit the feeding of strays by animal lovers.
i once saw one of them shudder and whine at the sound of fireworks. its tail scrunched under and it pissed itself in fear and confusion. its plaintive moans were drowned out by the incessant blasts of the “mala” crackers (a literal garland of 10,000 or so crackers strung out in sequence that goes on bursting for an hour or so). the poor thing just did not know what was happening and it became a shivering ball of anxiety until the blasts stopped.
anyone who sees an innocent animal suffer like that will never, ever, want to light a firecracker again.
I absolutely hate them. Birds die because of them, and they terrify my dog.
2.7 billion dollars gone in a cloud of smoke.
… you know that’s not how money works right?
Yes they are. Somebody extracted the ressources. Somebody processed them into materials. Now someone put them together into the pyrotechniques and finally someone set it off.
All of this labor and capital usage went into creating a short display of pretty lights and bangs, of which afterwards nothing but smoke and memories remain. This is the purest consumption in the economic sense.
Compare that with people using that labor to produce cars instead. Those cars take years before needing renewal and they can be used productively, so they are investments in the economic sense.
Finally lets take clothes, while also consumption they address an immediate human need and are reuseable for some time, so while they are also consumption they are quite different form fireworks.
Just so we’re clear for anybody else reading since they chose to ignore the easy refutation lol.
That the money is still present in the economy and provides jobs to hundreds of thousands of people in the supply chain both through sales, materials production, assembly, and labor, entertainment, and local economy boons from festivals.
I also wouldn’t mind the 💩 talk lol.
What represents the value of money? What you can buy with it. What determines what you can buy with it? The total capital stock available and the services offered through labor.
This part of the capital stock is gone. Literally into smoke.
Money is not some abstract independent entity. Its value is directly linked to the real production of the real economy.
Yes, but the point of the person you responded to is that work for the sake of work is also a waste.
May as well all just suicide and mulch ourselves so we don’t do anything without purpose.
Just to be clear, I was just saying that the point was ignored, not that I agree.
Although your response isn’t good either, you can advocate for more efficiency so people get to do more rewarding work, such as arts and crafts. Part of these arts and crafts can also be fireworks.
I don’t think the work that’s done to create and use fireworks is without purpose, in the end it’s a celebration and that’s purpose in and of itself.
Do food next and don’t skimp on the poo talk
Food is also consumption. But without food people die, so this consumption directly contributes to keeping the value of the economy up by keeping the workforce alive.
As for the poo safely removing it in WWTPs also costs more money than what can be recovered in energy or hopefully phosphate in the near future. Also the capital investments are significant and as they age and need replacement this value is also gone.
However the alternative is people dying of Cholera and other shitty diseases en masse, so both the investments as well as the expenditures are well spent.
I’m ok with professional firework shows.
I’m not ok for every kid in the neighborhood having access to little explosives.
I’m not ok for every kid in the neighborhood having access to little explosives.
Backyard rocketry is imo something to be celebrated, a bit less if it’s just buying premade fireworks, but kids learning chemistry and engineering in an exciting way isn’t bad- it also helps with developing a sense of responsibility when you will probably mess up and hurt yourself
A good compromise. When 20000 people have a great time watching a scheduled event that seems fair. Peeps can make preparations to participate or avoid.
Fireworks are a cool spectacle, imagine never seeing a fireworks show. Also the money isnt gone, its just changed hands.
They probably shouldnt be how they are now though, where every individual family wants to fire their own, thats a waste and really obnoxious when its in the middle of neighborhoods. Keep it to one centralized show, away from residential areas, and everyone gets to watch a bigger show.
Fireworks are a cool spectacle, imagine never seeing a fireworks show.
Completely agree!
Also the money isnt gone, its just changed hands.
Not with this though. A portion of the money has changed hands, the portion that goes to paying workers and investors. Another portion of the money was used to extract, refine, and process something that just burned up and no longer exists.
While money as an abstraction is made up, what it represents, the underlying value of society’s resources, is not, and that is unfortunately finite. So it’s also important to consider opportunity cost. That money could have been spent on other things, when you spend it on something wasteful and unnecessary that means it can’t be spent on more useful or productive things.
All that being said, I still think fireworks are rad and worth it, but they are a waste.
Money isn’t gone, resources are gone.
Money was literally invented to be an abstraction of resources. When people talk about money they usually mean resources.
That’s like saying vacations or going to the movies are a waste. It’s entertainment and it stays in part as a memory. By your argument the only thing you should purchase is a large decorative rock for the front yard, because it will last longer than you do.
Money was used to pay workers to extract, refine, and process resources. Absolutely none of the money is gone.
Wait, are we not supposed to tie $100 bills to our mortars?
Cost saving tip! Use $20 bills and cut your holiday expenses in half!
It’s just not the same…
The money itself? Sure. But that’s not what people talk about when they talk about money, they are usually referring to what the money represents, i.e. resources, which were all burnt up and used to create that fire work when they could have gone to something else.
i.e. if we spent some huge proportion of our money on fireworks every year, we would still have the same amount of money on paper in the economy, but absolutely everything else would cost far more. From our actual lived perspective we would be poorer.
Thats just not how money works. We did spend a huge amount of our money on fireworks, things didnt become more expensive.
That is absolutely just how money works, if that same money had gone to say, healthcare companies instead of fireworks companies, we would have the same amount of paper money, and we wouldn’t have fireworks, but we’d have lower healthcare costs since we already paid some of them.
You’re bringing up a lot of examples that literally happen in reality and do not have the results you are claiming. Healthcare companies have been both steadily receiving more money and increasing their prices.
Assuming you’re talking about American healthcare companies, thats because you have a broken nonsensical healthcare system filled with middlemen who will suck up profits.
That has nothing to do with the concept of opportunity cost. Pick a different industry, like agriculture / food then. If you spend $20 on food every month instead of fireworks, then feeding yourself the rest of the food you need is $20 cheaper.
3/4 of the fun is doing it yourself.
Technically it’s 2.999…/4 of the fun
So technically 3 again?
I think I will fight that math forever. Getting infinitely closer does not count as actually getting there.
For you. Its obnoxious for others.
Love them. There are tons on unnecessary things we do.
So many injuries and fires every year, aside from all the noise and pollution. My friend’s house (old farm) burned down because a firework landed on the roof :(
Honestly I just don’t care about them anymore, they are all basically visually the same, once I’ve seen one professional fireworks show it starts to feel like I’ve seen them all. It’s loud as fuck too, it hurts my ears more than it used to, I just stayed in yesterday.
It’s like asking a texan to get rid of their monster truck. Sure they live with their parents and never use the truck for work. But it’s just not gonna happen buddy.
And noise pollution
Bring back the drones! They were way cooler.
They also cause fires, severely injure and kill people, trigger people with PTSD, frighten animals and disrupt local wildlife.
