people have been demonizing it for most of the AD years i think but it’s quite pleasant really. are there any proven negative effects?
are there any proven negative effects?
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The risk of becoming a dopamine addict.
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Your dick gets more and more insensitive. Some day you cannot get off inside a woman anymore, because you need such a strong level of friction that only a hand can create.
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The second one really depends on how you masturbate. Death grip is a bad thing if you want to also get off during sex.
It’s also like saying that eating too much makes you not hungry, no shit einstein
if anything i’d posit that cranking the hog makes you more sensitive, because you’ll be so used to it that abstaining for a week is almost unbearable, much like how most people in developed countries feel a pit in their stomach if they don’t eat for half a day.
Is that actually true? I suspect not.
Most people start “enjoying their own company” years before getting to try for real.
If there was a question of insensitivity, then surely problems would be much more prevalent at ages when people are enjoying themselves more frequently. But it’s not the case at all.
It’s also at an age when your libido is essentially unlimited. Were the opportunity to present itself, these people could adequately perform for 15 different partners in a row.
Desensitization takes time. By the time it sets in, most people are past the age of unlimited libido. There are also different forms of sensitivity (and thus, desensitization). OP referred to physical, but mental seems to be a more common issue.
I get what they’re trying to say, but they also carefully omit very important details. There are a lot of things that can be unbelievably bad for you, but essential in moderation. This is really no different. If you aggressively jerk off 15 times a day, obviously you are completely screwing yourself in multiple ways, but in moderation, it’s good for your body
Wait until you hear about sugar if you think dopamine hits are bad lol. Also number 2 is just made up.
That second one sounds more like an endurance cheat code than anything else
endurance cheat code
LOL
But you may want to think twice:
Endurance by reduced sensory input could also mean reduced pleasure.
Endurance by enhanced self control is what you really want, because then you can get more pleasure overall. It comes with age and practising (the real one).
I dunno man, the bitches sure seem to get a kick out of it either way!
Thinking about it, being circumcised probably reduces sensitivity a lot more than cranking the hog on the regular.
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Christianity and capitalism. If it doesn’t make you feel guilty the Christians don’t like it and if you can provide it to yourself for free the capitalists don’t like it.
You kidding? Porn is a 4 billion dollar industry.
You can jerk off without porn. Think of all the advertising and subscriptions on porn sites. Those have nothing to do with masturbation and everything to do with capitalism.
My weiner would disagree
Sorry you’re addicted to porn, G. Get help if you need it.
Religion, capitalism. Powerful groups want more people to have more children.
Luckily I’m in a progressive enough country that even in school we were taught that masturbation is a thing and not necessarily bad.
As for negative effects - if you do it TOO much, particularly with a very strong grip, then don’t be surprised if, when having actual intercourse, you’re just not feeling much and might be unable to reach orgasm. You might even be uninterested in your partner sexually. A few days without masturbation will fix it though, doesn’t seem to be permanent. Day 2 without doing it and I couldn’t keep my eyes (or hands) off my wife’s body.
Sex was very infrequent for me and my wife in the last few months of her pregnancy, so that’s how I know. Soon as we started doing it on a somewhat regular basis again, I opted to quit jerking it because I wanted to enjoy the real thing more, even if it’s not every single day. No long-term negative effects that I’ve noticed.
Capitalism is powered by fapping, the fuck are you talking about?
A lot of the power users in this thread have clearly never heard of “sex sells”.
Title
Also non-zero chance some of these guys might have an association with Mindgeek. Just a hunch, given how easy reddit like sites are to manipulate.
It’s powered by there being enough of us wage slaves, which requires us to procreate, which is why red states in the US ban sex education, abortion, etc.
Of course, other capitalists have realized they can show ads on porn
Stop smoking what you’re smoking.
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We should create a community about that, so we can tell the world how great it was.
I personally just did it it and it was great guys, hope you like hearing about it
because suffering is fetishized
It’s more valorized than you think. There are places on the internet that are very social and masturbatory. Check out bateworld. If you’re single and are a male looking for a male, be prepared to be disappointed chatting with hetero males that are married that get off on jerking off with other men behind their wives’ backs. That’s pretty much a major sector of the population on bateworld. I’m kinda gay, but I surmise that the hetero world and marriage makes the sex for the hetero males kind of boring. I can’t say why, I’m trying to figure it out. A survey, if you will. Basically, I predict that the end result to my survey will be: men really like their dicks because major dopamine. Men get bored with their wives because whatever reasons I don’t know about. Men like their own dicks and somehow society has taught them to like their dicks so much, to the point that they often send dick pics via SMS or Whatsapp. So then they start liking other dicks? Explain to me, the gay man, why hetero men enjoy seeing x-rated pornography where the dick is larger than the hole that it is penetrating. Is it connected to the dopamine? Anyway, bateworld seems to prove that men migrate towards jerking off as a dopamine hit and men in particular are very interested in socializing with other men in need of the dopamine hit, all the while getting off on the taboo against masturbation. Me, being kinda old, I remember the good old days when you went out drinking with high hopes of having your penis touched by another person, if only briefly. 2024 is a new world, in which men are seriously confused about dicks and dopamine.
Some people are bi+ and just aren’t out yet or don’t even know exactly what they are. And that’s fine. I also believe it’s probably a pretty small percentage of the population. Fwiw, you can be in a differing sex relationship and still be somewhat curious about the other side of the coin. I think the worst thing people can do is be ashamed of it, then hide it at all costs where it manifests as this sort of website. Instead of having conversations among friends and spouses and more healthy methods of exploring one’s sexuality, such as going to pride events and making diverse, enriching friendships.
some people aren’t, and they like the taboo feel. really, don’t try to educate me. I know all about it. Try, instead, to be less blah. We’re not talking about “some people” we’re talking about men who are really into their penises. Your public service announcement, while making me yawn, also makes me think that you’re really not paying attention to what I’m talking about at all! These people I’m talking about are not gay, or questioning, or curious, or obsessed over their sexual orientations. They’re heterosexual. Heterosexual men enjoy their own penises. Your “intervention” is kind of stupid and uncalled for here. I’ll gladly talk to you about gay rights or whatever, but this is not the place. Biologically, I’m explaining, being a man and having a penis, you basically have an easy target to get some dopamine. We are formed this way. More women might like to chime in on this conversation. Are they getting easy dopamine hits off their clits? Were they raised to do this by their parents? No. Women are still subjected to shaming for sexual pleasure. Men, on the other hand, are encouraged to be aware of their pleasure organs. I really wish I could delete your bullshit comment. It has nothing to do with what I’m talking about.
This is the most obvious “blackmailing bi-curious men” scheme I’ve ever read. Just say it Omeggle with consenting adults.
I think this is a case of “The internet can take the niche 120 people out of the 8 billion on Earth and make them seem like they’re normal and everyone is like them”. Loud voice, itty bitty percentage of the population. If you go to “car-fuckers.com” you’ll leave thinking 4 out of 10 men have sex with their car and that’s why shows like Top Gear/Grand Tour are popular lol
Hmm. We’re having trouble finding that site.
Thank goodness.
I think you want to be right, but you should probably prove yourself right by signing up for a bateworld account and see for yourself. You’re probably meaning well, being a happily married, hetero male, and don’t want to believe that some of the hetero males you wave to as you drive past them, some of your cousins, or even your favorite co-worker with a wife and five kids, are probably on that web site jerking off to it. *edit: also, the web site has been making money for over 20 years. It’s always been chock full of married straight males.
Why do you sound like an ad written by a chat bot?
Neurotypicals look down on easy dopamine hits.
These days mutual masterbation is better for your relationship than having kids. It’s not the kids fault, society has made having kids a nightmare.
And of course the reason it is demonized is that any powerfull organization/society needs peoples shoulder to stand on. So, the more people, the more power. And they don’t really care if it was by rape due to sexual frustration, they just need more people to take advantage of.
So, like, for the bulk of history, the people demonizing it are religious assholes.
They demonized sex out of wedlock, demonized wanking off; and any other kind of sexual release, while simultaneously deciding who you can marry (and therefore have kids with,).
It’s one of their core methods of social control, ensuring wealth is only passed on to children of wealthy and “faithful” families.
I posted a comment impulsively, then saw that you already gave the same answer better.
They also practiced polygamy, so that rich and influential men would have multiple wives and poor men would have none. Imagine the rage when you were a Shepherd tending someone else’s flocks, knowing that you will never have a wife or family.
It makes sense to have occasional wars with neighboring tribes so that excess males can be removed from the system.
I think the simpler answer is, you are so right, it barely has to be valorized. It sells itself.
I think the long answer is that porn addiction is a real thing that can affect people. Also lots of people in charge of things like sex education have historically been prudes who see masturbation as some sort of gateway to promiscuity.
Orgasms are normal, healthy and necessary.
Porn addition is a myth. Stop perpetuating it.
I mean addiction colloquially. The existence and over use of porn does cause some people and their relationship some level of affects. I don’t think we can just hand wave it all away.
Research seems to suggest otherwise: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/women-who-stray/201808/science-stopped-believing-in-porn-addiction-you-should-too
You are preaching to the choir here. Yes I can believe porn addiction only exists in the kinds of the those in the religious community. I’m still trying to provide a larger picture to answer the question of why the government doesn’t tell you to masturbate every day.
Porn, for some people in contexts, has had drawbacks. Those people, in some contexts, have curtailed the valorization of porn writ large. Maybe this campaign has biased me to a degree as well.
I have never been to a Sex Addicts Anonymous meeting but I’m not about to write the whole idea off entirely.
Orgasms are normal, healthy and necessary
Yes, yes, no.
While orgasms are normal and can potentially have some physical and mental benefits, there is no physical or mental necessity to have them (plenty of asexual and otherwise celibate people of all different kinds out there to prove it).
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I don’t agree, in the experience of my friend circle, if you don’t release for a while:
- you start having wet dreams
- prostate harm - increased rates of prostate cancer in multiple studies - and my friend developed pelvic floor issues
- the “mental harm” is having to walk around horny all the time, constantly thinking of sex, and affecting your interactions
- even celibate people mostly masturbate, that’s not what it means. Including many confessions from priests
Well done, you’ve provided some anecdotal effects and benefits, which I didn’t deny exist.
However none of them demonstrate necessity.
Breathing, sleeping, drinking, eating, shitting - those are necessities.
Having orgasms is not, no matter how much you try to convince yourself and others.
Sure you don’t “have to” bathe but you’ll have a bad time if you don’t
the “mental harm” is having to walk around horny all the time, constantly thinking of sex, and affecting your interactions
this is not a problem which normal people face. if you are constantly thinking about sex, you may have an addiction or an otherwise unhealthy relationship with sex
Hey don’t shame ppl for normal variance in sex drive. Being horny is not a disease
Masturbation is totally normal and healthy, and you’re spot on that it shouldn’t be demonized or shamed. In men, it might even reduce the risk of prostate cancer.
At the same time, it’s important to have a balanced and psychologically flexible relationship with masturbation and sexuality. As psychologist Steven Hayes, a leading expert on psychological flexibility, explains: getting too fixated on any one activity or coping mechanism, even a healthy one, can lead to psychological inflexibility if it is used to avoid experiencing your life fully (For a thorough explanation of how this works, feel free to check out A Liberated Mind by Steven Hayes). Psychological inflexibility here means getting stuck in rigid behavior patterns to the point that it messes with living a full and meaningful life.
So while I’m totally with you that masturbation is healthy and that bullshit social taboos against it should be rejected, it’s also good to be mindful about your motivation behind doing it. Are you doing it because you’re escaping pain? Or are you doing it because it aligns with your values and makes your life meaningful? If you rely on masturbation too much and don’t have ways of accepting your emotions and connecting with the world, it could potentially tip into unhelpful psychological rigidity and a frustrating life. The key is to be able to experience masturbation while still staying flexible enough to show up fully for the rest of your life too.
I mean that’s definitely just a checkout aisle self-help book, though. Psychology, along with nutritional science and some other softer, more survey-based fields, has been suffering a pretty massive replication crisis, where something like 50% of papers are totally incapable of being replicated, depending on the journal and subject.
So I dunno, I’d generally be pretty skeptical of anything a book like that says about how you have to live your life or what you should be doing or how you should be doing it. Even if it’s something like “mindfulness”, right, generally thought to be a therapeutic practice, which we’re extracting from zen buddhism or whatever, just like carl jung travels around and extracts a bunch of “archetypes” from other cultures and then supposes that they’re universal when really it’s all just kinda some schizo bullshit canon he’s coming up with on the fly.
I uhh, I don’t like the scientific paint that is painted onto psychology and psychotherapy, is I guess what I’m saying. The attempt at formalization. What is just as good for one person, to be mindful, is probably something that someone else should rather not think about at all. Maybe even as a functional adaptation, a functional delusion that they can go on believing, and still end up having a fulfilling and uplifting life for everyone around them.
I mean that’s definitely just a checkout aisle self-help book, though.
Hayes is not a checkout aisle self-help book lol he pioneered multiple major branches of CBT. that’s like calling the Rolling Stones elevator music
I’d generally be pretty skeptical of anything a book like that says about how you have to live your life or what you should be doing or how you should be doing it
I admire the skepticism but you haven’t read it and clearly haven’t taken time to fully understand it. he isn’t making prescriptive claims. he’s speaking on behavioral science. “A happens, then B tends to happen. C happens, then D tends to happen. do what you will with this info.”
I don’t like the scientific paint that is painted onto psychology and psychotherapy, is I guess what I’m saying.
i understand the apprehension about psychological research but it is fundamentally a subjective science - psychology is what makes subjectivity possible, after all! and we humans clearly need treatment. if everyone listened to the ideas you planted in here, then what would we do? not try any treatments at all? not test our treatments? not seek evidence that our treatments are working and improve them? not share our findings?
the issue fundamentally is that you need to learn more about reading and interpreting scientific literature. you’re presenting a pseudo-intellectual skepticism which is admittedly a healthy protective mechanism from many things online, but is not going to be a useful attitude for all kinds of growth
im sorry im being a dick but this thread has funked up my barometer for crazy and i probably misinterpreted your level of it, be well
Hayes is not a checkout aisle self-help book lol he pioneered multiple major branches of CBT
I mean, both can be true, right. It’s not uncommon for pretty popular scientists to get into kind of the grift economy after a little while. Jordan peterson has how many citations to his scientific papers or whatever? But then he still rolls around and spews a bunch of bullshit that’s sort of framed under the guise of his psychological background, and you can still tell is pretty easily influenced by his jungian type bullshit. I dunno, been a while since I actually looked into him, but it shook my ability to trust psychology more as a field, after that one.
I admire the skepticism but you haven’t read it and clearly haven’t taken time to fully understand it. he isn’t making prescriptive claims. he’s speaking on behavioral science. “A happens, then B tends to happen. C happens, then D tends to happen. do what you will with this info.”
No yeah for sure I haven’t read it, don’t claim to have read it, I’m just extremely skeptical of that kind of book, which presents science to the public at large, because most of the experiences I’ve had with that sort of thing have been damaging psuedoscientific bullshit that I slowly have to talk my friends out of. Which becomes much harder when they think they know things on a topic because they’ve read like one book about it. I don’t even try to talk them into a different stance, I just try to talk them out of the kind of, oversimplified takes which they tend to get from these types of books. Steven pinker type books, “Guns, Germs, and Steel” type books, “The Bell Curve” type books, “How to Win Friends and Influence People”, “Poor Dad, Rich Dad”, shit like that. Admittedly not all of those are science guys, and some of that shit’s kind of old, but, you see what I’m getting at, it all blends together for the public. Pop psychology, that’s probably the term for that specific type of book, and uhh, yeah, that book gave me that kind of vibe.
If I’m really being skeptical, than, not evaluating anything else, because I just got up and still haven’t finished my coffee, the first study at the end of your post has two experiments. The first has a sample size of 34, the second has a sample size of 44. I dunno if I would say that you can really extrapolate anything from such an incredibly small sample size, to be honest. Especially one that’s like, taken from standard college campus volunteers. I know there are lots of scientific studies that rely on sample sizes which are pretty small, and I would throw that criticism at those studies, too. Shit happens in nutrition and exercise science too, I know for sure, which is why you see shitty fad diets circulate so much. I dunno, maybe I’ll read the rest of the paper, but that’s just like my general, me throwing shit at psychology as a field, right? But, maybe more, like, maybe more to, I think, some sort of point, if I have it, right:
and we humans clearly need treatment.
Like what do you mean by this? Because you’re looking at this through “treatments”, right, and I dunno if that’s the correct lens with which to view most people’s problems that they have in life. I mean it’s not a fuckin, incredibly new take, right, but like, you have a society where you’re expected to work 9-5, probably more, hours, five days a week, probably go in on a rental with your significant other, or increasingly, with your significant others, for like, 60 something years of your life? It’s not a shocker when we’re experiencing increasing amounts of depression at large, then, to me. That people have problems with that. I mean like, does changing society at large, qualify as a kind of patient treatment? I suppose my problem, if I’m really trying to have one, is just kind of that like, there’s not really any amount of psychological help which makes it better that your fingers are getting crushed in industrial machinery. Psychological help, in that case, just looks like copium. I don’t think psychology can help a lot of those problems, I think the best it can do is put a band-aid over a crippling tumor, which is nothing.
If you were to ask me what we were to do with the mentality I have, I’d probably want to incredibly balloon sample sizes and drastically increase the amount of evidence that we’re collecting, compared to just like, some guy’s written observations on like 50 people in some random experiment. Probably though, this is impossible, because school funding does not look to be going up anytime soon and google isn’t gonna share their massive amounts of data they’re collecting on people, and even if we had a glut of data to go through then we’d probably still be having to come up with and apply some sort of framework to it. At which point we just end up with a bunch of hacky bullshit, where you just take the noise and draw something in it and then say that this was somehow a natural occurrence, so you’d also need more rigorous standards for what conclusions we’re actually able to draw from the noise.
Then, even if you were able to do that, you’d still have no real way of distinguishing, say, one set of noise from another set of noise, to compare the two and draw a conclusion, because we’re just playing with like, one set of data, in a vacuum, compared to another set of data drawn from a vacuum, and there’s too many variables which might effect one outcome compared to another. So you’d probably need to be gathering pretty rigorous data over the course of many years before you’d be able to draw a real conclusion. Even then, the data might not be good enough, I dunno if you’d have enough information.
I’d maybe lean more into neuroscience to try and cut out some of the external noise, some of the factors that might fuck your shit up, but then that’s also not quite a good method because it doesn’t really cut out the external noise so much as ignore it, and you can still end up finding FMRI signals in a dead fish.
So, I dunno, probably I’d just use science for maths and astronomy and physics, stuff like that, and then otherwise I’d dismiss it, in looking for philosophies and methods with which to live my life or shape my being around. Or, you know, try to take it as it comes, and not really accept claims at face value. I’ve tried mindfulness, and I’ve found it wanting, because it just caused me to dissociate whenever I encountered an outcome I didn’t really like, and then instead of responding to things naturally, and flying by instinct, it causes me to kind of be like, the guy who smokes weed and then becomes hyper-aware of everything they’re doing but then their actual behavior devolves into nonsense.
Then, when I got farther than that, and I started to observe that behavior in the abstract, then it just sort of struck me as like, none of this realistically gives you a particular value judgement, right. It’s fine enough to just say, like, ah, well, think about it more, evaluate your life more, think about the long term consequences a little more. But, that train of thought doesn’t necessarily mean I’m going to be making the correct judgements, and even over a lifetime, it might very well be that I could try everything and still come to the wrong conclusions, wrong judgements, or the right conclusions and right judgements, or whatever. I could be a hyper-conscious CEO evaluating my own life totally inaccurately and still be getting by fine and dandy, and I could be a homeless guy with accurate takes but still have a shit life. It’s basically nonsense, to just be like, oh, well, think about it a little bit harder, just be a little bit more conscious, because that isn’t nailed down to anything in particular.
I respect your skepticism and I can see why you would mistrust the field broadly based on those figures in it. I just don’t think we need to throw out the whole field because of bad actors. Someone like Jordan Peterson is widely discredited in the field.
Treatment IS important. There are REAL problems with roots in our own psychology. It is not purely psychological, but always biopsychosocial. Disregarding the psychological is not the way to treat biopsychosocial issues. In fact, it is one of the only ones we have any real agency or control over. And the more we develop psychology, the more just our understanding becomes. Think about 50 years ago when almost everything was just called “schizophrenia” and we treated people by shocking the shit out of them. That’s where we’d still be if we didn’t do this kind of work.
When someone comes to me writing in pain from traumatic flashbacks, or wildly out of control of their lives due to mood swings, or losing grasp on what is real or not, or paralyzed with anxiety from the rat race you’re talking about, or they just plain cannot enjoy anything anymore and want to kill themselves… it is a low priority for me to discuss systemic issues with them. We can acknowledge them as a tool for alleviating shame and guilt surrounding mental disorders, and we can brainstorm ways to work around them, but expecting a suicidal client to begin marching in the streets? That is not going to be a sustainable means of making their immediate lives better. It is often more of a distraction than anything. Systemic justice and advocacy work is the kind of thing you do for no singular client in particular, and usually done in addition to the individual work.
But mental health treatment is how we help people find peace right here and now. It is how we empower people to find agency in their own lives, and help make them strong enough people to go out and support others in the longer term. It’s the people who do not treat their mental health that end up devoting themselves to bizarre causes. I mean, think about how many Q anon supporters have addictive or psychotic tendencies.
If you acknowledge that there are real mental disorders (with both internal and external etiology), and you acknowledge that treating the individual can be a positive step towards addressing systemic issues, then the question becomes what kind of treatment should we use? That’s where the scientific method comes in too. Yes there will always be problems and questions, but we do what we can with what we have.
I have seen people make real progress and really turn their lives around. That includes the masturbaters too lol, who do come through from time to time. I don’t care if there are swindlers out there - as long as there are real people who are really helping others. Helping people figure out what is truly important to them can help them find strength to endure the shit they cannot change. Helping people build tolerance for and even appreciation for pain can help them make decisions that give their lives greater meaning. It helps people free themselves from the grasp of addiction and start giving back to others. It helps people find reasons to live. It is doing an immediate, person-to-person good. I don’t know what kind of world you dream of, but I hope it is one with room for that kind of justice.
Thank you for your thoughts on all this!
Psychological inflexibility here means getting stuck in rigid behavior patterns to the point that it messes with living a full and meaningful life.
Rigid behavioral patterns like having to work 40 hours a week, shop, feed yourself, clean, do laundry, go to the doctor, pay bills and so on, over and over and over again for the rest of your life?
Bro you can’t just list basically every human ADL and say it’s a “rigid behavior”. That’s basically like saying “Oh, you claim to like variety? Then how come you spend every day ALIVE?” thats idiotic, arrogant, cynical
Well excuse the fuck out of me for not having enough free time to actually enjoy my life.
you cant compartmentalize things like that. there aren’t “chores” vs “fun” and everything you have to do is pain and the fun is just the chemical rushes. you gotta learn to enjoy the little things, enjoy yourself while you’re doing your job or your chores, have some gratitude that you still live and breathe. you probably are gonna wanna get screened for depression
I can’t pick and choose what I do or do not enjoy doing. There’s nothing engaging about cleaning or doing laundry. When I first got out on my own there was at least some challenge in figuring out the most efficient way of doing things but that’s all been mastered long ago. My job mostly consists of going down a list of projects and emailing people to find out why they haven’t finished things that should have been done weeks ago. Then when I leave I get to sit in traffic for half an hour. Maybe stop at one of the over crowded, understaffed grocery stores to overpay for food. Get home, work out for an hour, shower, cook food, clean up, do whatever else needs doing. There’s nothing to enjoy about any of that. It’s all tedious as hell. I might have an hour or two after everything else is done to unwind before bed and even then I usually have too much on my mind to really get immersed in anything.
I get how you can feel like that is a fault of the world, but don’t you see any agency in changing any of this? Or you just leave it at “Well I don’t like it so that’s that”
Of the things I listed:
Job - I’m always on the look out for better options, so far nothing has come up that pays more and I’m already not making enough to do the things I want to do.
Cleaning - Already said I have gamified it to get some enjoyment out of it in the past but I don’t see any more room for improvement there.
Traffic - I can leave work early to beat rush hour sometimes but that that only helps a little.
Grocery store - I’ve tried going to different ones but it’s more or less the same issues at all of the ones I’ve tried. I’ve figured out which days are usually less busy but it still sucks.
Working out - I vary my routines to not get too boring but it’s still more or less the same stuff over and over again. It was fun when I was making gains but now my physique is where I want it to be so it’s just maintenance.
Cooking- can try making new stuff but that just takes longer and comes with the risk of waste if I mess it up or don’t like it. Also sharing a kitchen with housemates that tend to pack all the freezer space with garbage they buy from costco.
Free time - I guess I could stay up later but then I’ll feel like shit all day the next day.
I’m open to suggestions but you’re acting like I don’t think about this shit constantly.
Thank you… most of the responses in this thread are really immature, arrogant, entitled, and pretty fucking cynical.
I work with people with severe depression and also the occasional sex/porn addict. Sexuality can lead us to some healthy lifestyles and can function as a healthy coping skill but it’s also one that’s easy to overdo. There are folks out there who try to treat their depression by masturbating all day long. They’re desperate for any hit of pleasure, and they have quite literally milked that cow dry.
This post reminds me of the Reddit marijuana communities, that rubber-banded so far beyond reasonable moderated consumption of a helpful medicine, but refused to see how maladaptive their ritual had become. No one in this thread is questioning the original premise. “But it’s so good!” That’s the immature, arrogant part. And the entitled part is the attitude that any criticism of my precious coping tool is a threat to my hollow happiness, and the cynicism is that the only reason to criticize it is because of a corrupt society! Jesus fucking christ this thread broke my brain, you all broke my brain, we all suck.
I’ve ended up having sex with my marijuana and smoking my semen… And I can’t help but ask myself, where did it all go wrong?
What if I’m masturbating because my body demands I masturbate when I look at porn, even though I’d rather just look at porn without masturbating?
Thanks for the response. What you’re describing - feeling a bodily urge to masturbate when viewing porn, even if you’d prefer not to - is very common. We’re kinda designed so that our bodies respond to sexual stimuli. Many people can relate to that internal tug-of-war between an impulse and a conflicting desire.
From a psychological flexibility perspective, the key is to approach those urges with mindful acceptance rather than struggle against them. Fighting with or trying to suppress an urge often just makes it grow stronger, like a beach ball you keep trying to push underwater - it keeps popping back up with greater force (1). Instead, psychological flexibility invites us to open up and make room for the urge, observing it with curiosity and letting it be fully present in our awareness.
This doesn’t mean you have to act on the urge. In fact, by giving it space to exist without resistance, you gain the ability to unhook from it and consciously choose how to respond in line with your values (2). You might say to yourself “I’m having the thought that I need to masturbate right now” and feel the sensations of that urge in your body, while still maintaining the freedom to decide if acting on it is truly what you want.
Imagine for a moment that a dear friend or loved one came to you struggling with this same dilemma. How would you respond to them? Most likely with compassion, understanding, and encouragement to be kind to themselves as they navigate this very human challenge. We could all benefit from extending that same caring response to ourselves.
At the end of the day, you’re the expert on your own life and what matters most to you. By practicing acceptance of your inner experiences, unhooking from unhelpful thoughts and urges, and clarifying what you truly value, you can develop psychological flexibility to pursue a rich and meaningful life - whatever that looks like for you. That means that there’s no one “right” way to relate to masturbation and porn. The invitation is to approach it mindfully and make choices that align with the kind of person you want to be.
(1) You can check out the “rebound effect” or “ironic process theory.” It’s been studied extensively in the context of thought suppression. The seminal paper on the topic is Wegner, D. M., Schneider, D. J., Carter, S. R., & White, T. L. (1987). Paradoxical effects of thought suppression. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 53(1), 5–13. https://doi.org/10.1037/0022-3514.53.1.5
(2) This meta-analysis reviewed laboratory-based studies testing the components of the psychological flexibility model, and how psychological flexibility techniques increase behavioral flexibility. Levin, M. E., Hildebrandt, M. J., Lillis, J., & Hayes, S. C. (2012). The impact of treatment components suggested by the psychological flexibility model: A meta-analysis of laboratory-based component studies. Behavior Therapy, 43(4), 741-756. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.beth.2012.05.003
Mindfulness sounds like a lot of work when I’m already planning to get genital nullification surgery
EDIT: Lemmy users love to downvote trans people’s lived experiences because they’re transphobic
Mindfulness sounds like a lot of work when I’m already planning to get genital nullification surgery
Being present with yourself and learning to sit with your thoughts (mere transient, ephemeral nothingness) is probably not going to be more work than undergoing literal surgery.
And it’s pretty insulting to gender diversity for you to attribute to transphobia our revulsion at seeing your level of emotional intolerance.
I’m mindful as shit about plenty of other stuff, just not my genitals. Being mindful about my genitals is bad because I have dysphoria. But I don’t expect a transphobe like you to understand my medical needs when you’ve already made a reductive judgement about my entire psychology based on a single statement in a specific context. You’re eager to judge, not to understand.
and you are eager to bemoan and cry persecution and not very eager to be understood. i cant believe you never mentioned being ace but only being trans. and yet it is our fault for not knowing this about you?
Yes, but I feel mindfulness can solve many problems. I’m not sure how many of your problems will be solved with surgery, but you might need to mix in a bit of mindfulness for good measure.
I’m mindful about lots of things, but I’m not mindful about my genitals, because they give me dysphoria. I’ll be mindful about my lack of genitals when I don’t have genitals.
You can’t mindfulness your way out of being trans. It doesn’t work, I tried.
Very well. I know it’s not a fix for everything. I just found it helped me growing up and when I remember to be mindful as an adult. When I forget and get too caught up in my own head is when I need it the most.
I wish you luck on your process and hope the best for you.
Asks question about psychology and masturbation. Gets well thought out response with source material and excellent advice. Responds to said comment in a rude way.
EveRYoNe is sO tRanSpHobiC!!
Lol. No. Your response was shitty and had nothing to do with the topic or the incredibly well thought out and empathetic response that you received. That’s why you’re being downvoted. Your gender does not give you permission to treat others poorly and you’re acting no better than actual transphobes.
I wasn’t being rude, I just gently informed the other person that they were giving bad advice, without getting angry or aggressive or belittling them in any way. You’re only reading my normal, pleasant interactions with other people as rude because you want an excuse to hate a trans person.
I just gently informed the other person that they were giving bad advice,
Do you really think they were giving bad advice? They presented something really well thought-out and with flippin citations! And I can say that Hayes is absolutely a credible expert in the field who has done amazing work in mental health and addiction.
You just don’t like the answer. Because you believe the answer is too hard for you.
And it’s an easy excuse to say you’re being persecuted for your identity, but really it is your attitude being criticized. Honestly it’s frustratingly transphobic of you to try and lump in maladaptive sexual responses with transness too. Do you see what kind of damage it can potentially do to portray a hypersexual trait as something essentially trans???
It’s good advice in general, but it’s bad advice for me, as I already explained multiple times. And I’m asexual, not hypersexual. I tell you I’m getting genital nullification surgery and you still go and erase my very obvious queerness.
This is what is called gaslighting and it’s deplorable.
No, gaslighting is when someone tries to make you question your sanity. Someone disagreeing with you isn’t called gaslighting, it’s called a disagreement. Obviously I’m going to disagree with you when you make up nonsense about my own actions. And if I had been as obnoxious and incorrect as you are, then I would have accused you of gaslighting when you told me my own actions were different than they really are.
One major reason is that feminism, which deeply influences culture, posits that all men are rapists in the waiting. For an example here a quote from a prominent and influential feminist.
“Under patriarchy, every woman’s son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman.”
- Andrea Dworkin
This chills any frank discussion of male sexuality because that would be implicit endorsement of sexual assault.
Ah yes, feminism, an ideology that consists solely of extremist views. I’m not even well versed in feminism and I know that Andrea Dworkin is quite extreme and is a polarizing figure.
If you have reduced feminism to the views of a single extremist than you really need to get your shit together.
It doesn’t consist of all extreme views but many mainstream feminist ideology had extremists views.
Where did you learn about feminism? Did you study it? Have you been involved in it? Do you actually have any touchstone with it? Or, maybe, does it maybe all come from sources that want to portray it negatively, because accurately representing it may undermine your faith in them?
Some people want you to need them, and the way the do this is by creating a monster that is theoretically attacking you. You need them to defend you from it. You just have to recognize that the monster isn’t real and the problems they’re telling you about are actually to cover up actual issues they are creating.
You definitely sound like a person who I would trust to tell me what “mainstream feminist ideology” is.
You do know that feminism promotes female masturbation, as well as male masturbation, right? As part of sexual liberation from religious patriarchal oppression. You know, the thing for which women were accused of being witches and burned at the stakes. The thing that it was only appropriate if a doctor did it for them.
This is insane incel bullshit and you know it.
Direct quotes are “insane incel bull****”? She really said that and the theme appears in all her writings.
Direct quotes are “insane incel bull****”? She really said that and the theme appears in all her writings.
Yeah, still seems like insane incel bullshit to me even after I direct quoted you. Also you’re allowed to swear on the Internet lol
I don’t care what one person said. Feminism will go away when sexism is gone. It’s not war on men, it’s a fight for equality. Using a random quote from one hurt and angry person to frame feminism as something evil is missing the point and pretty incel. Using feminism as an answer to why masturbation is not socially accepted is insane, really.
Her and Solanas both argued men have to be castrated before a feminsit transformation of sexuality can begin.
Solanas had a lot of trauma informing her opinions and was really only mainstream for being absurdly inflammatory and shooting Warhol. Also, most feminists don’t want to castrate people, and most is an understatement…
You raise an excellent point that the quote from Andrea Dworkin portrays a rather extreme and controversial view that is not representative of feminism as a whole. In fact, many prominent feminists have strongly disagreed with Dworkin’s perspective.
For example, Laura Tanenbaum, a respected feminist writer, has bluntly called Dworkin’s views “shit.” (1) Wendy McElroy, in her book XXX: A Woman’s Right to Pornography, also presents a feminist case against Dworkin’s anti-porn stance (2). As the esteemed feminist scholar Dr. Dale Spender has eloquently put it, “Feminism['s battles] have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions, for safety in the streets, for child care, for social welfare, for rape crisis centres, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.” (3)
This demonstrates that feminism is a broad movement focused on expanding women’s rights and opportunities - not demonizing male sexuality. In fact, as Amartya Sen compellingly argues in Development as Freedom, the expansion of women’s capabilities is essential for the betterment of all people. When women have more voice, choice and agency, it leads to progress in areas like health, education, and poverty reduction that benefit entire communities.
So while Dworkin’s quote may get attention for its shock value, I would encourage looking to the many other feminist thinkers who take a more nuanced, constructive and less male-antagonistic approach (5). Feminism is not about vilifying men and male sexuality, but rather about advancing gender equality in a way that uplifts everyone. There is room for an open, healthy dialogue about sexuality within a framework of mutual understanding and respect between women and men.
(1) Laura Tanenbaum, “The Appeal and Limits of Andrea Dworkin,” Jacobin, August 5, 2019, https://jacobin.com/2019/08/andrea-dworkin-last-days-at-hot-slit-review.
(2) McElroy, Wendy. XXX: A Woman’s Right to Pornography. New York: St. Martin’s Press, 1995.
(3) Cleal, Olivia. “Australian ‘Feminist’s Feminist’ Dr Dale Spender AM Dies Age 80.” Women’s Agenda, November 27, 2023. https://womensagenda.com.au/latest/australian-feminists-feminist-dr-dale-spender-am-dies-age-80/.
(4) Sen, Amartya. Development as Freedom. New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1999.
(5)
In fact, many leading feminist thinkers today emphasize an inclusive, nuanced and compassionate approach aimed at liberating people of all genders from limiting stereotypes and unjust social structures. Prominent feminist authors like bell hooks have advocated for men’s inclusion in the feminist movement, arguing that patriarchy harms both men and women. Scholars like Kimberle Crenshaw and Michael Kimmel examine how rigid gender norms and hierarchies contribute to issues like violence and discrimination in a holistic way, without resorting to vilifying men as a group.
So while I understand your frustration with certain feminist ideas that can come across as accusatory toward men, I would encourage you to explore the diversity of thought within modern feminism. There are many brilliant feminist advocates out there who are working to create a more just and equitable world for everyone, men included. By considering these alternative perspectives with an open mind, you might find more points of alignment than you expect.
Ultimately, I believe we all share the same goal of wanting a society where everyone is free to express themselves fully and without fear - but getting there will require good faith dialogue and a willingness to thoughtfully engage with different points of view.
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did you know that women masturbate as well lol
Also this is insanely incel
literally good for you
I actually asked my family doctor at one point about the health effects of masturbation. She said that as a guy, if you are not otherwise sexually active, it’s good for the prostate to keep the plumbing working down there.
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I’d be surprised if that’s true. Do we have any data on this or is this just “seems to make sense” stuff.
There are anecdotal reports of antisocial behavior, erectile dysfunction, etc in many small communities. I think yourbrainonporn.com is a good primer and rebootnation is a forum with people trying and failing to stop masterbating even to their own detriment. Make your own decision though.
Yep the best way to start a new moral panic is by recycling tired tropes from an older one (drug / weed panic of the 80s-90s).
Ooff
Sounds like some totally science-based and non-biased sources. I also recommend masturbationwillkillyourdog.com
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Citation needed. I know you’re trying to be funny, but there’s actually a lot of evidence going back to 2012 that internet pornography addiction is an actual issue for many people.
Watching pornographic pictures on the Internet: role of sexual arousal ratings and psychological-psychiatric symptoms for using Internet sex sites excessively - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21117979/
Pornographic picture processing interferes with working memory performance - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23167900/
Neural and behavioral correlates of sexual stimuli anticipation point to addiction-like mechanisms in compulsive sexual behavior disorder - https://akjournals.com/view/journals/2006/11/2/article-p520.xml#B12
It’s like the video we were all shown in school about dating robots
What about this video?
Hey guys he hasn’t seen the video!
