Violence erupted at the University of California, Los Angeles after pro-Israeli counter-demonstrators attacked a pro-Palestinian campus encampment. Bubbling tensions on the campus boiled over following the alleged breach of a “buffer zone” between the rival groups.
Angry and lashing out. This time the Israeli genocide was called out and the world was made more aware. And the usual cover given challenged thanks to these protests. The dehumanization of Palestinian people by supporters of Israel’s genocide is frightening.
You wont hear mainstream media question why the police retracted a short moment before pro-Israeli thugs stormed in the encampment and attack the peaceful protesters, they came back in to only arrest the pro-palestine protesters. the establishment has payed to end the protests and establishment media are only parading the side of the story the have been paid for to.
Lemmy needs a payed vs paid bot
They sealed the deck with tar to prevent pesky protestors from leaking in.
So now I am left with no sources and no idea if it is a real thing or not. One thing
twitterx has for it is the readers context.However idk if the same would work in relatively one sided isolated env
Jesus Christ. All over students protesting that their university is openly supporting a regime committing genocide and crimes against humanity.
It is unfortunate that the very small % of people that choose violence tend to only make things worse not better.
Which is exactly why those people are being used by more powerful figures. It’s hard to change the hearts and minds of the people, it’s easy to make them fight themselves.
It is indeed an effective strategy to distract the masses unfortunately. There is a real growth opportunity here for humanity if we are able to see it as clearly the established pattern is not serving society.
You can have violence from the police, or you can have counter-protest violence. The police have proven time and again they will stand back and do nothing while the people protesting for any liberal idea (sad that the left seems to be the only one interested in things like peace, equality, and justice) get beaten by the right.
The Palestinian homeland isn’t even a liberal idea though.
True, but being anti genocide, anti colonialism, and anti war often are. Just so happens that these ideas and Palestinian statehood are simpatico at the moment.
I mean you could have protestor violence, but for some reason that’s just outright dismissed as lunacy.
That’s when the police beat you.
If there aren’t regular right wingers beating protesters, the police step in and do it.
That’s when the police beat you.
Police will teargas and beat you regardless. When has exclusively nonviolent protest ever worked?
Give The Failure of Nonviolence by Peter Gelderloos a read. To make it ridiculously easy here’s a copy: http://libgen.rs/search.php?req=the+failure+of+nonviolence&lg_topic=libgen&open=0&view=simple&res=25&phrase=1&column=def
Nonviolent protest works when the violence against the nonviolent becomes the impetus for change. That whole Jesus taking the beating to point out the problems in the system has a long history whether you believe in religion on not. Probably why we still talk about non-violent protesters like Gandhi or MLK, too.
That’s not to say that violence doesn’t have its place, like the French Revolution. But that’s the shortcut. You forcefully break the system and rebuild it right now, rather than the long game of changing the system from within.
Checking out the author, he seems much more French Revolution type (even though being an anarchist really puts him at odds with any resulting government), looks like he’s spent a bit of time in jail for some protests, none of them violent.
While both only directly participated in non-violent protest themselves, Gandhi and MLK both participated in overarching struggles that were most definitely supported by a diversity of tactics, including violent protest.
In my opinion the reason we still talk about these individuals today, without any focus given to the violent action also employed in support of their same cause, is because there is no material difference between complacency and exclusively non-violent protest in the ability of either to manifest actual change.
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Isn’t it interesting how Israel and pro-Israel people apply the exact same tactic?! Let’s attack innocent people. Whether it’s bombing innocent civilians or violently attacking peaceful protestors. It’s so telling. They are rotten to their core.
That’s what 80 years of cultural righteousness gets you. You start to think you can do no wrong.
Cue up the “I learned it from you” meme because the USA showed Israel how it’s done.
It’s just plain old Fascism.
Etnic/nationalistic/cultural righteousness (aka nationalistic racism) is one of the foundational blocks of it along with violence.
Unlike Europe, Israel hasn’t realy evolved in social and political terms from the kind of thinking so prevalent in the early XX century.
On brand.
Supporters of Israeli genocide commit violence.
I’m shocked.
Shocked and appalled.
This is so out of character for genocidalists.zionists turned into genocidalists. it all starts with God.
I was sat down reading this and still ended up on the floor in pure shock.
Bruh check out the comments on the locked threads on reddit. Blue conservatives as far as the eye can see.
Link?
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That’s the term. They were counter-protesting the pro-Palestinian protesters. Sorry, what’s the problem?
The term that fits here is actually Terrorists.
I wasn’t making an argument, simply explaining what this headline meant.
You’re welcome to publish your own news articles if you think you can do better, but it doesn’t seem you could be objective.
Yes, we had established that the headline’s use of words was wrong, and then you came to chime in afterwards to argue in their favor. Nobody was confused about their intent before you came here. You added nothing but to contradict the previous user.
Yes, we had established that the headline’s use of words was wrong
No, several people here feel that way. You and others have that opinion. Nobody gets do decide their own facts, however. But this is a news article, not an opinion piece, and objective reporting of facts is what was called for. You are free to disagree about that, but it doesn’t make you “right”.
and then you came to chime in afterwards to argue in their favor
Wrong. I didn’t argue in anyone’s “favor”. I merely pointed out what I said above: this is a news article, not an opinion piece, which reported on a group of protesters being attacked by a group of counter-protesters. How you or anyone may feel about that or those involved is opinion and doesn’t belong in a news article.
Nobody was confused about their intent before you came here. You added nothing but to contradict the previous user.
Well, that’s just demonstrably false, and if you don’t like that, or the contents of the article, that’s what the downvote button is for, but I didn’t write the article and am not to blame for it’s contents.
I’m seeing this comment pattern a lot lately where they take apart and quote the previous comment in an argument, often using nonsequitur bullshit responses. Is this the latest bot, or do the kids these days lack all originality? I don’t do that shit. I assume you already know what your previous comment was without quoting it back to you. Maybe I’m giving you too much credit?
I’m seeing this response a lot lately. Can’t write a rational counter argument, so out come the insults and/or accusations of being a bot.
Classy.
FWIW, I don’t hold it against you. This is a terrible, horrible subject and series of events, and I’m trying very hard not to be overly emotional about all of this. I very much do support the pro-Palestinian protesters, but it also think it’s important to keep facts straight and to keep a cool head when discussing these events.
I’m not your enemy.
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As I said in another comment:
If you had read past “counter-protesters”, it goes on to say, “…attack pro-Palestinian camp”
“Counter-protester” describes who they were not what they were doing. That’s what the word “attack” is for. If you read the article it contains even more details.
I think people are suggesting the “counter protesters” aren’t “protesting” anything, they’re just straight up a mob attacking kids.
I understand that. That’s why I explained what the words mean.
Charging sleeping people with baseball bats isn’t normally considered a form of protest. Masked attackers would be a more neutral description.
When we protested the Iraq War very similarly, someone hung a noose in the camp the first night.
After that I was the one to stay up all night keeping watch.
If you had read past “counter-protesters”, it goes on to say, “…attack pro-Palestinian camp”
Yep, that was one of the sentences that showed how silly it is to describe attackers as protesters but there are plenty more.
They were there counter-protesting and then attacked the pro-palenstine protesters. Why do you object to an accurate description of the events?
It seems like you’re having a difficult time understanding this, maybe I can help. If another group of people showed up, and they had signs, and maybe bullhorns, and they started protesting the opposite of what the original people were protesting, they would be counter-protesting. Some heckling could even be involved.
When they show up wearing masks and wielding baseball bats, they are not counter-protestors. They are violent criminals. They did not show up to protest. They showed up to insight violence.
It seems like your having a difficult time understanding this
Im not, and your childish insults don’t make you right. There’s not dress code for protesters, and your No True Scotsman fallacy doesn’t win your argument any points. The Counter-protesters were counter-protesting, then they attacked the protesters. It’s a simple concept to grasp.
Just because it doesn’t tell the narrative you wish it to tell isn’t my fault. It’s just the facts as they happened, not an opinion piece.
Now go insult someone else for their ability to read.
Protestors: Less filling!
Counter Protestors: Taste great!
not
Protestors: Stop funding genocide, my college!
Counter Protestors: We’re going to beat you with bats while you sleep!
you disingenuous, festering carbuncle.
you disingenuous, festering carbuncle.
Name-calling when you can’t come up with an argument. Typical
Fuck Granite! Fuck Cement! Fuck Wood! Fuck All Counters!
All Counters Are Bad!
I see you
What am I doing right now?
Ew gross
It’s okay. This counter isn’t for food.
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Its weird yo see they York University was so far ahead of its time with this stuff.
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“Law enforcement simply stood at the edge of the lawn and refused to budge as we screamed for their help,” UC Divest at LA, a group involved in the encampment, said in a statement.
Fucking disgusting
ACAB.
I guess since the police have shown they are not willing to protect the people, the people must take the responsibility of their safety and security upon themselves.
Well trained by the IDF, they act exactly the same as when settlers attack Palestinians. They’ll only intervene if you fight back.
But we mustn’t have evil guns!! The police will protect us, I’m certain of it!
Liberals will never, ever prevail against the fascists unless they pull their collective head out of their collective ass. News flash kids: The fascists are perfectly willing to use violence. And they know you are not.
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Guns being present would have only resulted in many MANY deaths. That’s what you want?
I want people to use their right to defend themselves instead of licking boots.
If it’s the attackers, then yeah, thats the point. Guns are a deterrent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing
What a deterrent
Guns are NOT a deterrent. They’re an escalation and most often an unnecessary one.
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Ah yes. Nothing describes a gun better then splitting atoms at the subatomic level.
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Nah. You have to do it right, that’s all. Everyone mudt show up in plate armor open carrying fighting rifles. This is what the right has done, and more importantly it also has worked for the left (see: protecting drag queens from right wing protests). You don’t instigate shit. Just stand there. If you’re heavily armed, out in the open, and peaceful, the cops and counter protests can’t make up an excuse to start shit, and they are extremely unmotivated to do so.
I have seen a lot of shalafi’s comments in the past and I think the answer to that question is “yes.”
News Flash: it’s possible to want sensible gun control laws AND meaningful police reform. Most of us are capable of holding more the one thought in our head, capable of setting more than one goal, and that doesn’t make us idiots or hypocrites. Validating their violence with more violence would make us hypocrites (and idiots) and is not the only means of achieving our goals.
Edit: are you seriously suggesting that the protesters should be armed?! or is this just an attempt to muddy the waters by bringing up a conversation about gun control?
Michael Reinoehl killed a fash, then the police executed him in a suburban neighborhood. There’s no scenario where a leftwing person kills a fascist in self defense and their police buddies say it was a good shooting.
What would have the police and the media done after that?
Ask Mark Hughes about what happens when you show up armed to a protest.
This is an uninstructive conversation. We do not need this sort of shit stirring about this topic because it is important.
Do not show up to a protest with a gun either alone or unannounced. Thats just Rittenhouse behaviour. Be a part of a militia or with some group, and contact the event organizers before arriving. They’ll probably tell your group to wait in a near by location and to be called when needed.
Also getting beat up is the point of these protests. Columbia unreasonably responded with violence against their own students and faculty. It was a total blunder that they made habitually. Making them fascists drop their masks for everyone to see is the goal here.
Based
So let me make sure I understand your point: the pro-Palestinian protestors should have opened fire and killed the counter-protestors?
What’s wrong with self-defense?
Nobody was arguing against self defense
A rhetorical question implying shooting bands of thugs attacking a peaceful protest is somehow far fetched is eerily similar to arguing against self defense
A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction.[1]One who engages in this fallacy is said to be “attacking a straw man”.
Just asking questions (also known as JAQing off, or as emojis: “🤔🤔🤔”[1]) is a way of attempting to make wild accusations acceptable (and hopefully not legally actionable) by framing them as questions rather than statements. It shifts the burden of proof to one’s opponent; rather than laboriously having to prove that all politicians are reptoid scum, one can pull out one single odd piece of evidence and force the opponent to explain why the evidence is wrong.
The tactic is closely related to loaded questions or leading questions (which are usually employed when using it), Gish Gallops (when asking a huge number of rapid-fire questions without regard for the answers), and Argumentum ad nauseam (when asking the same question over and over in an attempt to overwhelm refutations).
Jeez, it’s almost like there’s a difference between self defense using fists when attacked by fists versus gunning down an unarmed group of people. Yeah, if you are one person ganged up on by a bunch of people, maybe MAYBE self defense using a gun is justified (unless you started the fight, then that’s on you), but arguing that it was justified in this case is bloodthirsty and sick.
Yeah, what’s wrong with killing people? As long as you have an excuse that’s good enough for you, you should always be able to kill as many people as you can. /s
It’s going to happen eventually. Regardless of what the current protested issue is. It’s probably a natural inevitable next step. Hope things unfuck themselves before that though.
I also find it very sad that it is turning sour but I find comfort in the fact that most of the fascist thugs I’ve seen are cowards who only find the courage to be violent in overwhelming force and numbers imbalances. Peaceful students who are known to not own guns are easy targets.
Does anyone know what political stance(s) the attacking crowd is made of?
Like, also lefties? Tankies, anarchists? Or like MAGAs?
For every large group there’s probably only only 2-8 that are genuinely knowledgeable and authentic about the beliefs being fought for. Regardless of sides.
Or not idk… Idk why I’m posting this.
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why the hell would tankies and anarchist side with the counter protestors. palestine litterally isnt a state yet(its trying to get accepted in the UN)
Zionists, Democrats, and Republicans.
Boo this man.
They first and foremost identify as violent shit bags and only representative of violent shit bags.
You can boo all you want, but those are the three sides supporting Israel.
Funny how it’s all rightists supporting them.
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say “not the left”, and leave the rest as an exercise to the reader.
Are you trolling?
No, see response in other comment
MAGAs. because american conservatives are often also american evangelists, and they’ve got some weird ideas about israel. those conservatives who don’t necessarily personally believe weird stuff about israel (ie the jews having a homeland means the second coming of jesus and everything will be great for evangelical christians) are being brought along by the right-wing propaganda on this issue.
Alt-Right just likes attacking leftwing protests. No actual political beliefs required. It’s the physical version of owning the libs.
i think that’s definitely a part of it.
Sorry, are you following this story generally? Lefties, tankies and anarchists all seem extremely unlikely to be involved with pro Israel attackers.
Ok wow. First, thanks to everyone who have their estimates. Appreciated. And for everyone else and the warriors of downvoting: No I was not trolling abd not it’s not THAT unilkely for it to be lefties (yes okay anarchists and tankies I mostly said as exmples so you know what I’m trying to ask)
If you are interested: there is a german lefty flavor called Antideutsche (anti-german). They are Zionists, antifas, anticapitalist, have a thing for violence (stylizing “bomber harris” for example), say weird thing like “protecting ur environment is like protecting your ‘home country’ like nazis would” and sometimes think of whoever basically as if they were nazis.
I’m not making this up, lefties go weird ways sometimes.
Edit readibility
Okay on second thought I wanna take back that warriors comment, that was too bitchy. Guess I’m also not uneffected by how toxic the whole discourse on Israel (also in or between lefty communities) is.
Like, everyone seems to feel they’d have to be either “pro israel” or “pro palestine”, wich imo 1. Is freaking dangerous for germans specifically 2. Doesn’t recognize the complexity (in the sense of one can’t just identify the totality of Israel with its right wing government as ome can’t just identify palestine with hamas.) 3. It tends to overlook the perspective of both israelian and palestinian lefties
I’ve seen reports that they were Chabad Lubavitch. Not sure of the accuracy.
There were two attacks on different days, so it could be separate groups, but a Jewish professor who intervened said a lot of them were speaking Hebrew and one carried a Chabad flag.
Zionists, probably wouldn’t surprise me if they made common cause with actual neo-nazi groups as well, wouldn’t be the first time.
Some Jews’ opinions about illegal settlements sure have changed in the last few days
Someone couldve run up behind that one and unmasked him
