- cross-posted to:
- programmerhumor@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- programmerhumor@lemmy.ml
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/14869314
“I want to live forever in AI”
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Related book recommendation!!
Kil’n People by David Brin - it’s a futuristic Murder Mystery Novel about a society where people copy their consciousnesses to temporary clay clones to do mundane tasks for them. Got some really interesting discussions about what constitutes personhood!
Some of the concepts in this book really stuck with me, but I had no idea what the title was! Thanks!
“Some days you’re the original, some days you’re the copy” or something like that
This prospect doesnt bother me in the least. I’ve already been replaced 5 times in my life so far. The soul is a spook. Let my clone smother me in my sleep and deal with the IRS instead.
Makes me wonder how many times I’ve been replaced. Also makes me wonder if I just died yesterday and today I’m actually a new person. I have no evidence that yesterday happened except for a memory of it, and let’s face it, since it was a public holiday, that’s a pretty foggy memory
I wonder about that. During the deepest part of sleep does your brain have enough activity to maintain a continuous stream of consciousness? If you go through two sleep cycles in a night does yesterday you die, and you from the first sleep cycle who only dreamed die, and you’re a new consciousness in the morning?
Dreaming is just the brain butchering who you were and placing whatever’s left in storage as decaying trophies.
deleted by creator
yeah, went down this rabbit hole recently: what if I’m the .001% that lives until <max age variable for my genome>? or what if ‘me’ is an amalgam of all the ones that die, and I get to live all those lives until the variable runs out.
Damn dude. Was each time a death? I think a someone’s following me around and snuffing me out. Mandela Effects keep happening. Also I’m getting elf ears? Reality is weird.
Also I’m getting elf ears?
plastic surgery - that shit’s expensive. use that money for something better lol!
No I mean my ears are literally just spontaneously developing into elf ears
I feel like there’s a great story behind each one of the five
“The soul is a spook”
I’m sorry I understand those words not in those orders though, are you saying the soul is an olde timey anti-black racial slur or that it’s inherently scary?
A spook is a pretty niche concept from philosophy, I believe coined by Max Stirner
It basically means a social construct that is being taken as if it is a real factual thing instead of something made up?
I am bad at explaining stuff but I hope you get the gist of it.
Spook is from the german “spuking” which means haunting. Its use in this context comes from the german philosopher Max Stirner who is infamous for the memes where X is declared to be a spook.
Understanding what exactly spooks are is somewhat challenging, and plenty of people get the wrong ubderstanding about what is meany by spooks. But at least in the meme way of using the word, a spook is anything you think is a fairy tale, or nonsense that you don’t care about.
spook
could also indicate ghost or intelligence operative. I don’t assume they were going racist with it.
Spook = ghost (aka a soul unhoused a living body)
What if you do it in a ship of theseus type of way. Like, swapping each part of the brain with an electronic one slowly until there is no brain left.
Wonder if that will work.
The tv show Pantheon figures it will work, but it will be very disturbing.
Was looking for the Pantheon reference in this thread! Just finished that show and loved it. Of course it takes plenty of liberties for the sake of the storytelling, but still, at least it explores these interesting topics!
Anyone reading this thread, do yourself a favor and check out Pantheon!
If I remember right, the game The Talos Principle calls that the Talos principle
Sounds like the sort of the The Talos Principle would call that
Right? Like what if as cells die or degrade instead of being replaced by the body naturally they are replaced by nanites/cybernetics/tech magic. If the process of fully converting took place over the course of 10 years, then I don’t see how the subject would even notice.
It’s an interesting thing to ponder.
The subject also doesn’t notice if you end their consciousness either.
I had to turn my phone sideways and go cross-eyed to spot the difference.
the plot of
spoiler
SOMA
in a nutshell?
Whats the difference between
void fn(Type& var)andvoid fn(Type* var)?Sends original data vs making a copy of data and sending it.
In meme context you’d be just making a copy of your consciousness and putting it in a machine. Whatever reason you’re doing it for - escape illness, survive armageddon, nothing changes for you. A copy of you lives on though.
It’s not like the post, secont is a pointer.
I mean, just kill the host as soon as the upload is complete. at best you are not conscious during the process and when “you” wake up you are in the cloud. The version of you that awakes gets told that the “transfer” was complete.
Upload is a fun show
I was thinking more along the lines of St. Junipero :D
Future man season 2?
Black Mirror
that’s a weird way to spell Pantheon.
Oh I know San junipero, just suggesting the plot of season 2 of future man as another similar reference - minds uploaded to “the cloud” and bodies destroyed on upload complete. Haley Joel Osmand is pretty decent as the antagonist of that season.
I guess you ask for C++. There Type* can be null while Type& can’t be null. When it gets compiled Type& is compiled (mostly) to the same machinecode as Type*.
You can pass nullptr in the second example (that is not what OP wrote though, hes second is making a copy).
Thanks, I was Just curious. I knew what * did but I wasn’t sure about &
void teleport(Person person);
removed by mod
I don’t get it
The first line passes the argument by reference, ie, the object itself.
The second line passes the object by value, ie, a copy.
Also in Rust that would be the opposite which is funny but confusing
Thank
It wouldn’t be you, it would just be another person with the same memories that you had up until the point the copy was made.
When you transfer a file, for example, all you are really doing is sending a message telling the other machine what bits the file is made up of, and then that other machines creates a file that is just like the original - a copy, while the original still remains in the first machine. Nothing is even actually transferred.
If we apply this logic to consciousness, then to “transfer” your brain to a machine you will have to make a copy, which exist simultaneously with the original you. At that point in time, there will be two different instances of “you”; and in fact, from that point forward, the two instances will begin to create different memories and experience different things, thereby becoming two different identities.
And since we know nothing about what consciousness is, you base this on absolutely nothing.
That’s a weird response to the person who is explaining the post to you.
The joke is that there are some people who think that by uploading themselves into a machine “to live forever,” their consciousness will also be transferred, like when you travel by bus from one city to another. In reality, you “upload yourself,” but that yourself is not you, but a copy of you. So, once the copy is done, you will still be in your original body, and the copy will “think” it is you, but it’s not you. It’s a copy of you! So, you continue to live in your body until you die, and, well, for you - that’s it. You’re dead. You’re not living. You’re finished. Everything is black. Void. Null. Done - unless you believe in the afterlife, so you’ll be in heaven, hell, purgatory or whatever, but the point is, you’re not longer on Earth “living forever.” That’s just some other entity who thinks it is you, but it’s not you (again, because you’re dead.)
This is represented by the parameters being passed by value (a copy) instead of by reference (same data) in the poster’s image.
This is also represented pretty well in Pantheon.
Or The Sixth Day starring Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Consciousness and conscience are not the same thing, this naming is horrible
Hey, just be glad I changed it from asdf_test_3, okay?
This just makes it more realistic
Sorry Dave, I’m afraid I can’t do that
The game SOMA represents this case the best. Highly recommended!
Soma is so fucking bleak and I love it
Did they ever allow for turning off head bob and blur? That game makes me motion sick to an insane degree.
Yes, I immediately thought about SOMA after reading the post. recommendations++
I already know I will never play this game, could you elaborate for me?
Brain scan tossed in a robot makes 2 Simons
And several times throughout the story you are forced into making some “decisions” about how to deal with stale memory registers.
If anyone’s interested in a hard sci-fi show about uploading consciousness they should watch the animated series Pantheon. Not only does the technology feel realistic, but the way it’s created and used by big tech companies is uncomfortably real.
The show got kinda screwed over on advertising and fell to obscurity because of streaming service fuck ups and region locking, and I can’t help but wonder if it’s at least partially because of its harsh criticisms of the tech industry.
Just FYI content warning for Pantheon there is a seriously disturbing gore/kill scene that is animated too well in the first season. Anyone who has seen the show knows what scene I am talking about, I found the scene pretty upsetting and I almost didn’t finish the show. I am still a little upset that the scene is burned in my memory.
The show got kinda screwed over on advertising and fell to obscurity because of streaming service fuck ups and region locking, and I can’t help but wonder if it’s at least partially because of its harsh criticisms of the tech industry.
Okay so I can’t 100% confirm this, but the first season wasn’t popular because it was on whatever the fuck AMC+ is. Amazon bought it because of the writer’s strike to get something out.
Checking in to see if this show was mentioned. Highly recommend! Well written
I really thought you were going to mention “Upload” on Prime. Same creator as the office.
That show is garbage
Yes, I just finished watching Pantheon and absolutely loved it!
Totally agree that it deserved more attention. At least it got a proper ending with season 2.
Also, the voice acting talent they got was impressive. Paul Dano was fantastic as one of the leads.
Sounds good. Did it come to a conclusion or get axed mid way?
Unironically the most important question
Luckily the writers were able to finish it the way they wanted with a second season, and it’s fantastic. AMC almost did axe it before the second season released but after it was already finished but fans were able to get them to release it.
The series has a very satisfying conclusion.
It’s one of the coolest fucking things we watched this last year.
Sold!
The best part is, unless that function name is misleading, it doesn’t matter how the data is passed; a copy is being sent out over TCP/IP to another device regardless.
It needs an empty catch block
Soma is a wonderful game that covers this type of thing. It does make you wonder what consciousness really is… Maybe the ability to perceive and store information, along with retrieving that information, is enough to provide an illusion of consistent self?
Or maybe it’s some competely strange system, unkown to science. Who knows?
I don’t think anything gave me existential doom quite as much as the ending of that game.
I think the definition of consciousness needs to not be solely about abilities or attributes. It needs to account for the active process of consciousness. Like a hair dryer can burn things… but a fire is things burning. Without the active nature its simply not conscious.
Maybe consciousness is everywhere, and has nothing to do with mechanisms.
Provide the illusion to whom?
Self? Seemed pretty clear in their comment
