powershell is litterally out of the picture.
non taken (I dislike JavaScript)
And I’m the smalltalk soldier in my rainbow uni 🌈
“You guys are stupid. See, they’re gonna be lookin’ for army guys.”
C is the sniper you don’t see
And just like in Metal Gear, he dies of old age if you wait a bit.
C is old, ubiquitous and still does not have a good replacement for its low-level cross-platform usecases, so I’ll believe it when I see it 😄
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I mean yeah, if you restrict yourself to the C part of C++ it can do everything C can. But then you’re not getting any of the advantages of C++.
Once you start using things like classes and templates heavily, your program will quickly outgrow low-end hardware.
“Outgrow low-end hardware”?
What does a programming language have to do with this?
Everything.
Every programming language is an abstraction layer between the programmer and the machine that will run the code. But abstraction isn’t free. Generally speaking, the higher the abstraction, the less efficient the program.
C++ optionally provides a much higher level of abstraction than pure C, which makes C++ much nicer to work with. But the trade off is that the program will struggle to run in resource constrained environments, where a program written in C would run just fine.
And to be clear, when I say “low-end hardware”, I’m not talking about the atom-based netbook from 2008 you picked up for $15 at a yard sale. It will run C++ based programs just fine. I’m talking about 8- or 16-bit microcontrollers running at <100 MHz with a couple of hundred kB of RAM. Such machines are still common in many embedded applications, and they do not handle C++ applications gracefully.
Compile times get insanely huge.
Compile a c program with gcc then with g++.
You will quickly see the difference in size
And speed too. A small program using only C features can compile 5x faster with a c compiler then a c++ one. (GCC will use c++ mode on a .cop file so make sure it is .c)
Does it need replacing?
I wouldn’t say “need”, but there are possible improvements to ergonomics and safety that wouldn’t make the language itself more complex or high level. I think it does its job quite well though and will be here for decades to come.
Rust is doing a very decent job of low-level cross platform. C just has a very long history.
Rust won’t replace c.
The programs are too bloated for many embedded systems where every byte counts because it’s in ROM or loaded jnto IRAM
All that memory safety and garbage collection, for example, comes at a big cost
garbage collection
I don’t think Rust has a garbage collector.
Its cross-platform support (not just for using but also for building it) is not there yet, and it is quite huge and unstandardized with only one full implementation. I’d agree the last part will change with age, but given the frequent large changes and feature additions I am afraid it will be harder and harder and it is simply too complex and fast-moving for many low-level applications. It is closer to C++ than C in my eyes. I’d be happy seeing it replace C++ though for its memory safety benefits!
At the same time, C is the only stable ABI available for Rust.
That’s true, but they’re working on an ABI implementation. It’s no mean feat with a language like Rust. A quick search around the Internet found various possible candidates, though many of the discussion threads have petered out.
Ada has been around since 1983 and is objectively superior. Yes I will die on that hill.
It’s too bad programmers are all such egotards they think they can write bugfree programs in C, while whining about how “restrictive” a safe language like Ada is.
C is back at HQ with 2 Stars and enough political capital to serve till they die.
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Yeah, gonna have to disagree. If I had to choose between JS and Python, I’d shoot myself in the head.
So you choose JS.
Python is cool IMO, got loads of libraries and gets your little app up in notime.
Not for larger projects though.
JavaScript is like the unsafest language I have touched in the last 20 years, yikes!
Still would use it as a web front end instead of python ofc.
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Before 3.9 the lack of type hints made it a nightmare for large projects. Strong typing is, among other benefits, a way of self documentation and helps IDEs with auto-complete. If I use Python I always use type hints and if I have to use JS sigo with Typescript instead
Python without type hints is torture. I always need to have the fucking docs opened for anything, and if the docs are bad you’re screwed, get ready to read the source code. Like fucking hell man, just let me autocomplete this shit…
What languages did you use 2 decades before?
What languages did you use 2 decades before?
Turbo Pascal, Go, assembler and Basic I guess :-D
Well, it’s not like you have any option. Browsers only run Javascript, right?
Well you can do it the ‘old’ way serving front (pages) from the back like PHP did it.
Ah ok, server side rendering with no JS. I mean, server-side rendering is good. But a front with no JS? Idk, the page would feel pretty outdated. I wonder if there modern front-ends with zero js.
PHP is the landmine they are about to step on.
Glad C++ will be the one step on it cause it deserves it. I’d take PHP over that shit any day
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jokes on you i code the entire stack in JavaScript
Is python really any better?
Afaik JavaScript only runs in a browser. If you want to make a desktop app your only option is something like electron.
For example, you can’t make the equivalent of a bash script with JS, but it’s trivial with python. I don’t think you can do system calls at all with JS.
There are non-browser JavaScript implementations, the most well-known of which is node.js
Nodejs is a works great for that.
Python is as inefficient as js is ugly
Well done.
That is like a colleague farewell card that says, “Four years already? It seems like only six months with all that we have accomplished.”
yes
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loosely typed: python is the same
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bad package manager: python is infinitely worse
- loosely typed: python is the same
false
- bad package manager: python is infinitely worse
don’t think so but ehy…
pip is the bane of my existence
Also python IS loosely typed. take a str and you can reassign it to an int or whatever
Yep last time I tried python, it’s type checker was so, so much worse than typescript.
Everyone I’ve met saying python is better turned out not have used modern JavaScript/typescript.
I’m sure that’s the case, but the meme is not making fun of typescript, its making fun of his dad: JavaScript, maybe for not comparing to his son: typescript
You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. Python is strongly typed. What is is is dynamically typed, also known as “duck typing”.
Strong typing doesn’t have a widely agreed upon definition. Duck typing is not equivalent to dynamic typing.
Objects have strong, definite types that never change. Variables do not have types and can store [a reference to] any Object.
You’re right about python being the same. Python doesn’t have a mature alternative to Typescript that launches it into having best-in-class type handling.
There’s so much that my C# devs can’t do with its horrible type system that Typescript “just does better”. At compile-time at least.
I used to work on a hybrid typescript/python product (some services js, some TS, some python), and the TS stuff was just faster-running, easier to iterate, and better. And story-point allocations consistently showed that for an excess of 20 devs working on those codebases.
As for pip/easy_install vs npm/yarn/pnpm… I’m curious what you think pip does well that yarn/npm doesn’t? I’ll say in my work experience there’s more/better enterprise private repository/cache support for node modules than for python modules. Using npm security databases alongside “known good versioning” allows a team of even 100 developers to safely add libraries to projects with no fear of falling out of corporate compliance regulations. I’ve never seen that implemented with pip
100 developers to safely add libraries to projects with no fear of falling out of corporate compliance regulations.
Depending on the regulations, python virtual envs could make it possible too.
How so? The companies I worked for were using venv’s but nothing that could help with standards.
Using a private npm repo, I can actually do aninstall of a library I want to use and it’ll refuse to install if that library isn’t already approved for use by the organization, and if it is/does, it will install only the approved version. Further, I still don’t have any of the libraries installed I don’t want (even secure-seeming unnecessary code is a potential risk and unnecessary). The last 2 places I worked that used python used venv’s, but the pip requirements.txt file was still fairly hard to keep regulated.
From approved environments:
pip freeze > requirements.txt?
pip/easy_install
Are you sure your knowledge of Python’s package management isn’t out of date? easy_install has been deprecated for years. There are a few mechanisms that the Python community now has for dependency management and installation. My favorite solution is Poetry, which like npm maintains a separate dependency (pyproject.toml) and lock (poetry.lock) file.
I didn’t think anyone was using easy_install anymore, but I still see it in docs for stuff.
Poetry looks interesting, but does it support private-only dependencies, where the system will reject a library or version if it has not been previously approved and cached?
I think this is what you’re looking for, where you can configure both the resolution order and whether to just pull from a private repository.
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Python?
We live in clown world
College literally tried teaching us programming with JavaScript…
It’s an easily accessible language, I started to learn with JavaScript as well. Easy to teach the basics.
Ok, admittedly I was using typescript but honestly, I really enjoyed using JavaScript. I kinda feel like people who shit on it have never used it much, or aren’t very experienced, or it just wasn’t to their taste and they’re jumping on the hate train that the others like to conduct.
(I also understand this is a joke dw)
My feelings toward JavaScript depend on the context in which I’m using it. I really like JavaScript in a React app or Next.js, but I don’t care for it in Views and Razor page in .NET web applications, though it’s getting better.
It’s probably also related to when a person first encountered JS. If you learned it pre-2015—even if you’re aware of the changes made in ES6—I can see how it would be hard not to view JS as cumbersome. I personally love to use it, but I can’t imagine that would be true without
let,const, classes, etc.Edit also block scoping and arrow functions!
I kinda feel like people who shit on it have never used it much, or aren’t very experienced
How much experience do you have? (and don’t even think about lying; this is the internet)
Definitely 2023 years worth of experience. I taught Jesus himself JS. Which, fun fact, doesn’t stand for JavaScript, but stands for JesusScript. I would never lie on the internet.
(4ish years lmao)
4 years isn’t enough to hate javascript. Either those 4 years are entirely in JS, in which case it’s all you know and thus you lack perspective. OR, you spent e.g. 2 years with a different language and only 2 in JS, in which case you don’t have enough experience with JS to have an informed opinion.
Don’t worry though, we all started our JS hating journey like that. Give it a few more years and I promise you’ll be able to hate javascript like the masters.
10ish years here, I don’t hate js. The more modern tools, frameworks and typescript makes it awesome to use for frontend stuff.
I never said I had a total of 4 years experience, only that I had 4 years of JS experience.
But yes, I will work on honing my hatred. I hope to one day gain a seat at the JSith council and achieve the rank of master.
Let your anger flow through you.
Im just over here in the corner trying to learn Java.
peaks through the cheap stand-up office blinders from the C# “office” Can you help me debug something rq?
