Don’t worry, corporations are people. Surely Boeing will get capital punishment.
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Makes me wonder, how much does a professional hitman pay troll factories for white washing the crime with “but how do you know it wasn’t a suicide”, specially the ones that are equally professional about it not being flagrant? How much does it compare to cases in Russia for people suiciding out of windows with multiple gunshots?
When something isn’t clearly black and white, without the facts and investigative research, continuing to discuss it usually makes it end up becoming a 50-50% grey area that grossly distorts as much as a completely black and white presumption would. In those cases, the initial “gut feeling” impression and the general education and awareness of a person involved may end up corresponding more to the reality, specially in cases actively trying to suppress the truth.
“Boeing”, a non-living fictional mythos that has been accepted as a “person” so that the industrial revolution could be fueled, did not kill him. But there were plenty of psychopaths with power and influence who would have been affected by his deposition. some who’ve also been spearheading expansion into countries where dealing with and coming to compromises with its lowest ethical lowlifes (some of them also being potential or existing customers) would have been a necessity.
It’s too bad he didn’t write a short letter saying the same thing and give it to her for safekeeping. As of right now all we have is her word. I’m hopeful that she’ll testify.
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At the end of which some low level schmuck will be thrown under the bus and they will be fined a few million dollars grand total for all this shit.
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Boeing is a major part of the military industrial complex. They own the politicians in both parties, the regulators, and the courts. Laws don’t apply to them.
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EDIT: The posts above and in response to this one both got modded, so I’m gonna edit this one because it looks weird out of context and perhaps wasn’t constructive.
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If they can’t deliver a product that stays in one piece when not even being shot at, they aren’t about to stay a part of that MIC for long.
The MIC has very little to do with making high-quality military equipment and much more to do with kickbacks and local jobs. Boeing and the other prime contractors are massively inefficient and often performing make-work jobs that no one in the military wants (like making more tanks).
If you’re the government, you want your military planes to work. It’s in their interests to have whistleblowers. (Now there’s lots of steps that are problems in realizing that.)
I mean there may simply have been internal reports already, just highly classified to avoid “embarrassing” the nation and not accessible or known to the general public.
I feel like “risk of door blowing off mid flight” or “25% of oxygen masks don’t work” is something the public is entitled to know about
Didn’t say they weren’t entitled to know about it, just the reasoning that might’ve gone through the government’s collective heads when not disclosing or looking the other way on Boeing doing an Epstien.
“Look, it turns out if you flip this switch on the Fa-18 and forget to turn it off after 1 to 5 minutes tops, your chances of ‘uncontrollably inverting and ejecting at high speed straight into the freaking ground’ go up tenfold. We’ve provided the USAF with a 1 hour iPad training about being touchy with the defrost function.”
–Boeing, probably
No. If you’re the state you want shit to work. If you’re part of the government, you just want to get your bribes.
Bribes being one of the steps that can be a problem.
I kind of thought corporations aren’t allowed to murder people but at this point I don’t know anymore.
Now the corpos who order planes see that boeing is willing to do anything in order to get the job done…
too big to fail. /s
I don’t think they are allowed. But I think they do it.
They’re clearly allowed to do whatever the fuck they want.
Murdering people has been a normal part of corporations for a long time, but they generally do it to union organizers in the developing world.
Let’s be fair, they do it everywhere. They do it more in the developing world, but it’s not exclusive there.
I mean, there have been several huge instances of mass murder by corporations. Go look into the US’ history with strikebreaking and you’ll see just how bad it used to be. At least Boeing is trying to pretend it was a suicide, instead of just blatantly firebombing him in his own home.
In America it used to be you could just bribe your governor and they’d deploy the national guard to kill striking worker’s families like the Ludlow Massacre and the Battle of Blair mountain.
Ludlow Massacre and the Battle of Blair mountain.
It blows my mind how blatantly these events are not taught to anybody. Never forget.
I never thought I’d see the day when a respectable blue chip company like Boeing is publicly outed as ordering an assassination.
Why does this surprise you that a company, a large company, would order an assassination of someone? This doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.
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well your first mistake was thinking Boeing was a respectable corporation (that ship sailed in 1997 when they dropped the “engineering first” priority in lieu of “business first”)…
your second mistake is thinking any corporation is respectable ;-)
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Turns out people pay extra money to avoid death, who knew.
next stops: buy Kayak and shut it down; Make it illegal for similar searches to be performed; make it illegal to disclose who makes the aircraft.
Unless citizens make it clear that they won’t stand for bullshit, they will get bullshit.
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Your guess is as good as mine.
Their third mistake is thinking any corporation will be held accountable
Oh, you got caught doing some shitty business thing and now you’re not making as much money. Here is a government bailout to make it up.
Or they got caught doing a shitty business thing fucking people over and get fined a fraction of what it made them.
People in this situation might consider putting themselves under video surveillance.
Or always stay in sight of two other people and eat and drink only from sealed packages purchased from random grocery stores.
Like Epstein was
I know right. Exactly my thoughts. If you are a whistleblower, install secret camers in your house and always keep a recorder (audio/video) in your pocket or chest.
Although in a few years this is obsolete. AI ftw.
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Gonna come out that the hotel parking lot camera was down for maintenance that night
And the guy at the front desk ran an errand for five hours.
I would be going to pretty great lengths to ensure I didn’t get Epsteined or, if I did, the mfers behind it got theirs. I’d be sending hand written letters to every goddamn person knew that I wasn’t suicidal.
And I would be really careful about my opsec. Oh, you thought I was at that motel? Fuck you pricks, I ditched the rental, took a bus and switched five times, changed clothes twice and snuck to a culvert to sleep, you fucking corpo assassins. Good luck with that. .!..
And mentioning on social media so it’s public/informing journalists so they can make it public beforehand that you don’t plan on killing yourself.
The trouble with that is someone might say you DID plan to kill yourself, and tried to frame Boeing for your own death by telling people you weren’t suicidal. Thus it’s preferable to leave video evidence, that could also help catch the culprits.
It still leaves the possibility that you yourself hired a hit squad to kill you. Alex Murdaugh and Jussie Smollett both did things like that. Only for a beating in Smollett’s case, but Murdaugh actually wanted to be fatally shot, leaving an insurance policy behind.
Wow. That is chilling and very damning of Boeing. Like really…Boeing is that dirty? Surely not?
I’m not any defender of corporations, by any means, but I’m not sure that I’m willing to take the word of a “close family friend” who “needed help one day” any more than some corporate HR; and “I don’t care what they say, I know that Mitch didn’t do that” isn’t exactly a solid argument to be basing things on.
Edit: I seem to have missed this on my first read:
Jennifer said she thinks somebody “didn’t like what he had to say” and wanted to “shut him up” without it coming back to anyone"…“That’s why they made it look like a suicide,”
I’m never surprised to hear something bad about Boeing, but this is just a woman convinced with, on the face of it, no other proof than what’s in her own head. Unless she’s got a recording or document, the article’s title could have been, “Family friend tells reporter a story”
I can see you were born yesterday.
I’m curious if some one who disagreed with you - on something that they found completely, obviously true - tried to convince you they were right by saying that their mom’s friend’s daughter made a claim about it, how inclined would you be to believe them or that daughter?
I think we all agree that Barnett suspected that something would happen; and we all agree that Boeing is a terrible company that is capable, and guilty, of terrible things. My point it just that there is concrete evidence of these things and articles should rely on something other than some person made a claim with nothing but, “it’s obvious” or “I know” to back it up
Fascinating
I feel the same about the response given that I’m agreeing with everyone’s sentiments overall and only questioning the validity of a single source. Suppose I need to get a better feel for the site before trying to be more active.
Naw, you’re good. Change nothing about yourself. :) You are spot on and you have my upvotes.
Folks are in angry mob mode and can’t be bothered with even a hint of nuance or reason, apparently. Even if you are convinced Boeing totally killed the guy and state that clearly…
Anyway, peace out man. I hope for once corporate scum faces consequences.
And he said, ‘No, I ain’t scared, but if anything happens to me, it’s not suicide.’
He pretty much said “I think something may happen to me and they will make it look like a suicide.”
Unless she’s got a recording or document, the article’s title could have been, “Family friend tells reporter a story”
Yeah, it won’t hold up in court, and neither would it if she had recorded this casual, intimate conversation between two old friends.
Maybe, though, it’s enough to get the coroner to take another look at his death.
I’m not any defender of corporations, by any means, but I’m not sure that I’m willing to take the word of a “close family friend” who “needed help one day” any more than some corporate HR;
You sure have a lot more faith in corporations than I do…
He pretty much said “I think something may happen to me and they will make it look like a suicide.”
Did he state that somewhere else? Admittedly I haven’t been following the story too closely so I may have missed something there; but if he isn’t documented saying that somewhere credible, then all we have is her claiming that he “pretty much said” that. Is it likely he said it? I mean, I’d definitely be saying it if I was in his shoes, but one family friend’s claim isn’t enough to convince me that this should have been published as it was. I guess this is all more me just trying to voice frustration with the article. Not that it’s unprecedented (maybe even the norm) these days, but it’s always frustrating to see headlines with unsubstantiated claims and discussions ensuing as if it’s fact.
Maybe, though, it’s enough to get the coroner to take another look at his death.
Here’s to hoping
You sure have a lot more faith in corporations than I do…
I probably don’t, I’m just trying to present an argument with throwing on more layers of personal bias
Maybe, though, it’s enough to get the coroner to take another look at his death.
He’s a high profile corporate whistleblower who allegedly committed suicide. Any coroner who isn’t already triple checking everything is way too corrupt or lazy to bother with another look.
The coroner is going to call it as suicide. This isn’t remotely a debate to me. If it is suicide it goes away. If it is murder it means work for the police and a small annoyance to the powers-that-be. The coroner knows this and knows that if they don’t writer suicide their career is over at best at worst they get Epsteined as well.
Epstein. Your argument is disproven
This isn’t “I know Mitch didn’t do that”, it’s “he literally told me the specific thing that happened and he wasn’t going to do it”. What motivation does she have to just fully make up a conversation? Boeing has billions of dollars of motivation, she knew him from family get togethers.
There’s a few accounts on these threads that are really determined to remain neutral and open minded about Boeing, I blocked a different one with the same speech pattern recently
Well, I for one think some rogue at Boeing is behind the Epsteining of this guy. The company is definitely run by psychopathic crooks and has been for a while and I hope these fuckers all go to jail and the company fixed before more people die.
Idk about these accounts you blocked… but I am always going to advocate for at least being self-aware of being loosey-goosey with one’s reasoning. Maybe it is compulsion, maybe it is the decades wasted being religious that have led me to detest careless epistemology that leads to specious conclusions. Then again … if COVID taught me nothing, it should have taught me that efforts in this area are probably pointless. I must like swimming upstream. I seem to do it all the time.
Remaining open minded, waiting for evidence… Must be ChatGPT because that’s not a human thing, never had been!
I am a Lemmy language user and I have processed this request.
Remaining open minded, waiting for evidence…
You wrote “being willfully ignorant” wrong
My pet theory: Some extra dirty psycho at Boeing probably had him killed. Probably to cover up specifics about themselves. It seems pretty clear Boeing is rotting at the head and has been for decades. All these issues that have come up since MAX are the result of deeply systemic problems, stemming from crooked, greedy psychopaths at the top.
But in the interests of being as rational and honest about this as possible, let’s also not forget that this article is based on her claim, and she’s the only one (so far) to make it. People have been known to seek attention with bullshit. It’s evidence, yeah, is it really unimpeachable? Well…
Think about it like this: if there was a dated and notarized statement in his handwriting saying the same thing that she claims he told her, that would be more trustworthy.
But again, pet theory, some Boeing sicko was covering their own ass by having him Epsteined. Totally plausible.
I don’t think this is the last we will be hearing about this.
Amazing how standards of evidence work. I am a Jesus Mythicist and pretty much all we have to “prove” Jesus was real is one guy saying he meet some unnamed person who had a dream. But here we have a direct eyewitness stating what they heard a week ago and that isn’t good enough.
What motivation does she have to just fully make up a conversation?
That’s my point: we have no idea. We have no information other than that her and Barnett’s mothers are best friends and that he was a pallbearer at her father’s funeral. She could be a well educated individual that is doing her best to make a point and draw attention to something, or she could be someone who believes tons of stuff that is blatantly false and is telling her opinion to anyone who will listen. Either way, (copying from my other comment) I guess this is all more me just trying to voice frustration with the article. Not that it’s unprecedented (maybe even the norm) these days, but it’s always frustrating to see headlines with unsubstantiated claims and discussions ensuing as if it’s fact."
There is literally no other corroboration that could be given, it’s a personal conversation between friends or friendly acquaintances, reported as such. There’s nothing wrong with the article. This is the maximum amount of corroboration for a private conversation (none) and it’s reported as a conversation, with information about the speaker’s relationship and direct quotes. Just because people don’t record their lives in unalterable write-once media doesn’t mean personal conversations simply should never be the subject of reporting. We have headline news stories about US generals’ personal conversations with Trump and his denials, and no one thinks “well, that shouldn’t be reported because either side could be lying and without recording they’re both equally suspicious”.
I’m certain you don’t actually follow a philosophy of “nothing anyone says can ever be given any more credence than anyone else” because it’s an impossible way to live. And whatever high-minded “no one can ever know absolute truth” ideas you have, claiming that a HR rep and a family friend have the same level of believability is ridiculous. On one side you someone whose job is literally to say things to protect a billion dollar company and the other a family friend with nothing to gain talking about a pretty reasonable conversation one might have.
There’s nothing wrong with the article.
I guess I can concede that the article describes what happened, so maybe it was the headline that set off my skepticism. In my opinion there’s a big difference between:
‘If anything happens, it’s not suicide’: Boeing whistleblower’s prediction before death
and
‘If anything happens, it’s not suicide’: Family friend reports Boeing whistleblower’s prediction before death
I know I’m being pedantic, that it’s just clickbait, and that’s the reality of today’s media; but I’ve spent the last 8-10 years watching some my family radicalized by headlines like this (albeit on different topics) and feel pretty strongly about it, I suppose. After realizing a few years ago the negative effect internet echo chambers were having on me I started to try and be a little more skeptical about things I was reading, especially if I agreed with them. Most of the time I just try to keep quiet but, apparently, felt like trying to start a discussion about it this morning.
claiming that a HR rep and a family friend have the same level of believability is ridiculous.
You probably have a point here. I could have better phrased my statement as something like, “I’m not sure that I’m willing to take the word of a “close family friend” who agrees with my point of view than I am a “close family friend” who disagrees with my point of view” or something similar. For instance, if the women in the article told the reporter, “he was very unhappy and told me he might kill himself” I’d still be thinking there was a convincing chance that Boeing was directly responsible because I wouldn’t consider her any more credible just because she’s agreeing with me.
My brother in whatever, for your information that is called a “witness”
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Boeing is that dirty? Surely not?
Why not?
International profit chasing entities just wouldn’t value profits over human life?
It is a corporations fiduciary responsibility to maximize profits over any other things. That obviously includes human lives.
Does a human life have a value to other humans? Yes.
Does a human have a value to a corporation? It has a value and a cost, if the cost is higher than the value of the human then it is a risk to the value of the company and can be liquidated.
“But corporations are supposed to care about people more than profits!”
Welcome to the real world, buddy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster
Oh and have you any idea what Boeing has been doing for some years now?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8oCilY4szc
Hint: it involves maximising profits while endangering people, to the extent that Boeing is literally assassinating witnesses so the extent of how recklessly they endangered lives for profit wouldn’t come out.
Friendly reminder that Boeing is not a plucky airline that can’t make safe airplanes, it’s an AMERICAN MILITARY DEFENSE CONTRACTOR worth billions. If I you threaten that arrangement with slander like the truth and facts, they are good friends with people who kill for a living and completely unashamed in paying for their services.
This so much. Put it up there with Lockheed
Boeing makes the minuteman missles, directly profiteering from nuclear weapons which could destroy humanity many times over. They’re evil.
Put another way: there are plenty of people who will eagerly issue death threats, stalk you, and swat you over minor differences in opinion. Think what they would do over serious money.
… Oh they totally killed him didn’t they? You put it in very good perspective.
it’s an AMERICAN MILITARY DEFENSE CONTRACTOR worth billions
Probably one reason why the FAA isn’t immediately shutting Boeing’s shit down, you know when doors fall off their planes mid-flight, and investigations uncover more problems.
Like really…Boeing is that dirty? Surely not?
I mean they were willing to knowingly keep producing unsafe air planes which lead to several crashes killing 100’s. So yeah, I really wouldn’t be surprised if they also do assassination to ensure their profit.
Also as stated elsewhere, they make world ending nuclear bombs delivery rockets. They’ve profited from the possible destruction of all of humanity.
If you want, take a deeper look into the *max events and you’ll find that being dirty is the least surprise.
Why not? They killed multiple hundreds of people so far. Just one more.
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United Fruit just turned into Chiquita and continued on like they didnt massacre people too.
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when a whistleblower dies on the day of his deposition, you have to work really hard to convince me that it’s suicide.
They could have threatened to fly his family on a 737 Max if he didn’t kill himself
“We appreciate your candor and willingness to see the truth outed. As such, we hope your family will join you on a lovely vacation, with a complimentary flight on a 737 max.”
“Well shit, they’ve got me by the balls now”
Now that is a big threat!
Oh yeah, now this is an avengers level threat!
Definitely! But a ‘friend of the family’ is not really a perfect source.
Doesn’t matter, we’ve already got a rabble on.
Just saying, I bet Boeings lied more about things that caused humans to die than the friend of the family has so if its he said she said, I think she’s got the superior credibility. She just doesn’t have superior profits.
They make airplanes tf is this mafia shit
Didn’t stop coca cola or the banana companies
They are a megacorp, they have enough money to do what they want
When you have enough money you’re effectively a god in every way except the omnipotently immortal part.
Wait until you hear about the people who make chocolate
Odds echo in reality. The French thriller “Blackbox” featured a conspiracy around a new aircraft crashing taking inspiration of the MCAS related crashes.
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They also bribe politicians to give them an excuse to sell those weapons. Gulf of Tonkin, anyone? Grenada? Panama? Af-fucking-ghanistan?
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🤘
Both incorrect, they make money.
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They take money. It’s banks that make it.
They’re rich enough to easily hire a good hitman.
And have the motivation to silence this guy before the entire country is calling for Boeing to have their corporate charter revoked
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fuck McDonnell-Douglas
Planes crashed more back then. Statistically speaking, safety has still improved over time even after the McDonnell-Douglas merger. Maybe it could have improved faster but commenters in this thread are saying crazy hyperbolic shit like “complete disregard for human life” which just doesn’t track with the actual accident rates. But conspiracy theories and corporate malfeasance sure do get a lot of clicks if you’re a news site. I’m sure executives were, are, and will continue to be profit-oriented while pretending to be something else, otherwise their business goes under.
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Correction: they make money
Welcome to capitalism, baby!
They are also involved in the military and aerospace industry. They also practically only have a single competitor in the passenger plane manufacture industry (airbus). So they are rich and powerful and do not shy away from exerting their influence to protect their interests.
When airplanes crash!..at that point the whistleblower had passed away in what looked like a suicide. But how did Boeing manage to pull that off? Join us for the next hour as we explain the science behind involuntary assisted suicide! We’ll be interviewing putin corp’s CEO Putin, who is an expert in these sort of things but too old to die by hanging.
NOVA got dark this week.
Holy shit some Boeing motherfuckers better go TO BIG JAIL
They won’t.
had* better go
If Corporations are People, I say Boeing should get the Death Penalty and be Nationalized.
Nationalize Boeing
Seriously. Once we nationalize it and it starts operating like it used to, it would be a shining example of why nationalization works.
It’s also why you’re going to see an tsunami of useful idiots saying we shouldn’t do it.
Then flush everyone from director up, and investigate middle management, and put people in that actually have some fucking ethics. Jesus H Christ.
Go further, nationalize the MIC. I’m not gonna sit here and pretend the United States doesn’t need to manufacture arms for itself and it’s allies, but we absolutely do not need thousands of useless C-suite middlemen making millions of dollars from the process. Boeing is just the canary in the coal mine, I would not be surprised if other frequent contractors have also significantly decreased their ability to produce useful goods in favor of growing their profit margins. Great for profits, but not exactly what you’re looking for to protect troops.
Look, we all know he didn’t off himself, but here’s my issue with these stories where a friend or family member says that the person said they told them it won’t be suicide:
If Barnett really said that, why not also set up a dead man’s switch? If he was truly afraid that he had info so damming he’d be killed for it, then why not set it up so that the info still finds a way to come out even in the event of his death?
If anything, ensuring the info comes out one way or another might have even protected him.
Well because according to his quote he wasn’t afraid. I don’t think he thought the company he worked for for 30 years would do this. Seems he said this remark only in response to what she asked.
It just takes one psycho in management with their own ass on the line to do something insane to cover their tracks.
That’s my thought if this conspiracy were true. It wasn’t some evil corporation assassinating the guy, it was one of the menial workers who had more to lose from his testimony.
“Hurr durr, it wasn’t the evil corporation. It was just the evil lackey of the evil corporation”.
Yeah because there’s a difference…
Unless it really was suicide via blackmail/ extortion.
If you don’t kill yourself were going to kill all your family and friends.
Give him videos of the surveillance on all of them to scare him.
Still seems more likely they did kill him, but that might be a reason for no Deadman switch
I’d wanna be in witness protection and unreachable if I was whistle-blower at that level just to avoid situations like that.
It would have been really nice to have some kind of automated testimony upload or something.
Have it in writing. “I have zero intention of killing myself and my life is great save for my horrendous former employer that should go straight to hell.”
ANYTHING more substantial than “Y’know he told me once…”
He already published his information and was in the process of repeating it in front of a court.
His death prevented him from giving his information as sworn testimony which a dead man switch could not do.I believe that’s not actually true at all. It can and has been used as sworn testimony.
The thing is, there’s a difference between thinking a company will kill you, and THINKING a company will kill you.
Maybe his family was threatened?
This was my thought. As terrible as it is.
Basically “We have a van outside your house. You have two options…”
Man, wish they could’ve gone into witness protection and testified from an undisclosed remote location or something…
Someone on lemmy said it yesterday. Those Boeing shits could have put him in a no-win. Tell him that if he drops it they will still sue him and if he continues they will also sue.
how many dead man switches have you setup?
Not only that, but isn’t a dying declaration specifically admissible as fact or something? I’m only vaguely recollecting this, so I’m likely wrong.
Yeah something is clicking in my head about it being a federal level hearsay exception. Where is a lawyer when you need one?
Another site in which “accidentally” the GdpR cookie forms weirdly aren’t scrollable so you can’t reject them
It’s not GDPR but the cookie law. Stop villanizing the GDPR.
I’m pretty sure the form is there exactly because GDPR needs it to be.
Also I’m not villanising it, I’m villanising the corporations who only pretend to comply.
How does GDPR affect EU cookie law?
Recital 30 of the General Data Protection Regulation considers cookies as part of personal data. It requires websites and web publishers to obtain valid consent when collecting personal data from users. Therefore, the GDPR and Cookie Law work in tandem in the European Union
This particular instance of a cookie notice is really bad. The gdpr is there for a reason and a lot of websites can come up with better solutions to that cookie law.
Yeah, my point exactly.
This one sucks.
I like the option of opting out, and way too many websites uses shenanigans to get you to accept implicitly or explicitly. And even when you don’t they hide “legitimate interest” checkmarks everywhere and you have to scroll a 100 miles to do them.
I still do.
But sites in which you can’t even scroll to see the “refuse” bit? Haiyaaaaaa
I hate cookie banners, but I’m not villanizing the cookie law; I’m villanizing all the websites that try to spy on me
That’s fair! The cookie law requires that you can reject just as easy as accept, and mostly you just cannot.
Personally I think the minimum cookies should be the default required by law and if people want to opt in too more, they can do so on a specific page of the website. Get rid of those stupid banners which I have to reject every single time.
They could just respect the DNT standard… yet they decided to ignore it
Unfortunately this is the exact type of shit you’d say when you’re battling with suicidal ideation.
