Navalny’s friends knew he was willing to become a martyr if that’s what it took to stand up to Putin.
Alexei Navalny’s long struggle against President Putin began with a humorous blog and culminated in repeated demonstrations of his willingness to risk his own life. According to the Russian authorities on Friday, he has now died in prison.
Russia’s leading opposition voice has been silenced.
Other dissident figures went into exile or died in mysterious circumstances over the past decade, leaving Navalny as the last national figure with a dedicated following.
Though he had been arrested many times before, Navalny’s defining moment in the eyes of many Russians came after the attempt to assassinate him with Novichok. He recuperated in the sanctuary of a German hospital but chose to defy Putin and return to Russia in January 2021, knowing full well he would end up in prison.
Like we didn’t know that
Don’t idolize people, especially don’t idolize politicians. He died for a generally pro-social cause but that is the extent of the take-away here
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well he’s a fucking nazi so maybe we stop valorizing him.
Say what you will about hitler, but he DID kill hitler
- Fuck Putin to death
- Explain to me why it’s good to idolize a public figure, you cowards
oof
If Russia is like the US with trump, then there’s the active population who are supporting Putin, because even if he’s a bastard, at least he hurts the right people. Then there’s an apathetic horde, who don’t care or are too beaten down to do anything. Then there’s the group that know what’s up and wants change.
The question is if Navalny’s death meant anything. The people who care are already at a disadvantage because of the authoritarian State, the supporters aren’t going to change, and the apathetic don’t have time to care. IMO he would have been better off, alive, outside of Russia and criticizing Putin.
Russia is not like the US under Donald John. There are indeed rabid supporters of Putin and Russian imperialism (“vatniks”), but the regime functions regardless of popular support.
You are right about what groups of people exist. You are, however, completely mistaken about their importance if you compare Russia to the US under Trump.
My understanding, which is based in large part on my personal experience and observation of the size of protests (statistics suck when dictatorships are involved), is that the vast majority of Russians dislike Putin, but they believe that there is nothing that can be done at the moment.
Doomerism is very strong in Russia. Our prevailing mentality is to suck it up and keep going. It pains me to say this, but in the current conditions of Russia, the doomers have a point.
What you said could be true of any event, but reality is, each of these events influence apathetic people to either become supporters of the regime or anti-establishment.
At least, that’s my theory. If not, there would never have been any progress in human society, if things are as static as you theorized.
I don’t imply society is in a permanent static state, my question is if Navalny’s demise would effect any meaningful change to the status quo.
I think progress comes from young people, not apathetic people who have had changes of heart.
Apathetic parents lead to angry kids, angry kids look for answers. Some of them will find the right ones.
Apathy is not age related; it is a state of mind. You have very energetic grown ups, and very apathetic youth and visa versa.
I think the point is, that he might have been able to influence more, if he was alive, and maybe even free, outside of Russia
Further investigation has revealed he died of a rare condition where his balls were just too damn big. There are a lot of people in Russia, but not many at all this brave and resolute. I hope his death awakens more of this rebellious spirit. All evil dictators have a tipping point. Nothing is impossible. Fuck Putin. Fuck the oligarchy. Fuck the propaganda machine. Fuck the military. Fuck them hard.
The sacrifice was in vain, we know Putin is a shithead.
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You are a Westerner.
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You live after the beginning of the Ukrainian War.
In Russia, for the longest time, dislike of the regime was primarily limited to the youth. The average person had a vague understanding that there was a lot of corruption. However, they did not understand just how deep it went. The average person understood that there was some enrichment going on, but they thought it was mostly local and small-scale. People seldom had personal experience with the repression of dissidents, nor did they know much about the opposition movement.
Navalni opened people’s eyes. He revealed the palaces of the deputies, ministers, and Vladimir Vladimirovich himself. He revealed how corruption was horrendous on every level of government. He revealed the absurdly close ties between the oligarchs and government. He made the repression visible too, thought this was a much more minor part of his project.
On the back of all of his investigations, he built a mass movement. Individual, fractured discontent just leads to depressed people who believe themselves to be isolated, the sole sane man in a sea of nutcases. He united people. He organized demonstrations. He made discontent public and visible, thus opening the eyes of even more people.
The modern opposition movement would not exist were it not for Navalni.
That being said, there were two main issues with Navalni’s work. First, he wasted a lot of energy telling people to vote, and came up with the Smart Voting scheme to vote out URers, even though he himself acknowledged the lack of fairness in the elections. This was a colossal waste of time, energy, and resources. It changed nothing. You cannot vote out a dictatorship.
Second, he was a nationalist, especially early on. Later on he became more of a typical liberal, but his years as the sort of guy to yell “Russia is for Russians” have been harmful to the opposition.
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Which “we” are you talking about? Because a lot of Russians vote for him (and I don’t mean just the fake votes, but the real ones as well).
The Other Mr. President - by This American Life did a really great episode interviewing Russians on their thoughts and feelings on Putin.
Votes don’t matter in Russia
They matter. You vote Putin or you vote Putin but the government notes your impropriety. Voting is a purity test.
They may not matter in a sense that you can’t elect anybody but Putin.
But they do matter in a sense of showing the incumbent they aren’t stable.
After successful re-election of incumbent, they fall into a sense of euphoria. This leads to creation of some absolutely horrific and unjust laws.
However, when the re-election is deemed unsuccessful (say 55% voted for “the right candidate”, but the second place got scary high 30-35%), they become timid.
That’s how informational autocracies work. And that’s why elections there absolutely do matter, as they directly affect quality of life. It’s the safest and loudest way of showing the government your middle finger.
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And did he change their opinion?
Internally? Potentially…at the ballot box? Nope
The Russian ballot box is a paper shredder that increments “Putin” by 1.
Sergei Magnitsky already did this in 2009, but I suppose we needed a reminder.
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Please correct me if I’m wrong but Assange held back dirt obtained on Republicans and only passed out information damaging to Democrats. It’s been a long morning.
The day we all knew was coming, sadly. The day he set foot on that plane back to Moscow from Germany, it was not a question of if but when this would happen.
Did he really need to sacrifice himself for that?
Is there seriously anyone who was in denial until they learned about Navalny?
Sadly, yes. Russian State Media is the only source of information for a lot of “normal” Russians. Although that sadly also means that his sacrifice most likely won’t have a large impact on the Russian political landscape.
Then it’s worse than I thought.
Kind of strange that a culture with so many pariahs seems to also have a stranglehold on any dissent.
I guess China is the same way, so I shouldn’t be surprised.
Villaviciencio here in Ecuador also sacrificed himself. Yes, people do that…
Yes, but this is Navalny in Russia.
Navalny was xenophobic. You can’t replace far-right with another far-right, it will still be worse.
The only option is to pick someone who is inclusive of multiculturalism and LGBT people.
He also believed Crimea should be Russian, so I’m not happy he is dead but I’m sure as hell happy that he is not Putin’s replacement.
This is a mischaracterization of his statements and lacks nuance.
You can read more here: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/17/world/europe/navalnys-comments-on-crimea-ignite-russian-twittersphere.html
“I think that despite the fact that the Crimea was seized with outrageous violations of all international norms, nevertheless, the realities are such that Crimea is now part of the Russian Federation,”
Seems pretty clear.
Crimea is and will be always Ukraine.
I don’t understand why he returned to Russia just to get killed.
It doesn’t seem to have achieved anything. Did he think the rigged Russian courts would save him?
Snowden and Assange doing everything they can to stay out of the claws of their fascist overlords, but Navalny just handed himself over to his…
I don’t understand why he returned to Russia just to get killed.
Because in Russia you have to sacrifice yourself and suffer to be “real” politician, and not “stay in cozy Germany”, “preaching from abroad”. Navalny and other imprisoned politicians believe this too, they’re the product of the same society after all.
Actually true. If you remember the “Inception” movie (with di Caprio, but a good one), there’s one thing I’d really want to plant into most Russian-speaking people’s brains.
That they don’t owe anyone suffering or proof or other such things.
And also that when you concentrate on proving that you are true to some goal, you lose the goal. It doesn’t matter how much you sacrifice proving, you may even die, because you still divert from the goal of doing X to the goal of proving that you really want to do X.
Those who don’t understand that paid little attention to his life and his fight. I suggest you checking out the Navalny documentary at least.
Got a title or a link for the uninformed?
It’s called Navalny. They made it available for free here though not sure if proper subtitles are included https://navalny-film.io/
Otherwise it’s on streaming platforms and torrents.
Awesome thank you
That’s called dedicating your life to a cause. He knew he was going to be killed and was willing to give up his life to hopefully bring down Putin at some point hopefully in the future
Everybody know that Putin is a monster, except for the Russians. They need a revolution!
That didn’t end well last time though
It sadly did end. Now another fucking imperialist is in charge.
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But USSR definitely had an empire-like thing going on.
… important parts of which were (declared and even attempted) meritocracy, scientific and social progress, and a promise (which seemed realistic enough) for the future of the whole world.
This doesn’t have anything in common with any big state’s ideology now.
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I meant 60s and 70s.
The point is that even aggressive attitudes of Soviet leadership were constructed very differently.
Politburo really made collective decisions.
The Communist party and the ministries and local councils and all that could function in obscure, weird and undocumented ways, but they did generally follow laws and rules.
I mean … it really was an empire. Very inefficient and it eventually failed, but still.
Today’s Russia is just an entity of a lower order.
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Man, Lenin set fire to a good chunk of his own dreams during the Civil War.
The betrayal of the SRs and Makhnovists, the butchering of Kronstadt, the subjugation of local soviets and trade unions to centralized top-down rulership, and nationalization of previously independent cooperatives all helped bring down the dreams of equality and liberty. Lenin created all of the infrastructure that Stalin then used to horrifying ends. IMO this is an inevitable outcome of vanguardism and a “dictatorship of the proletariat”, but that is a topic for another day.
Some of the things mentioned above did manage to survive post-Stalin. There was immense scientific progress in the USSR and the education was the best in the world. Everyone got food, though it was poor-quality and standing in line for it was universal (again, post-Stalin).
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I mean, they deposed a monarch, so that’s good.
Russians know it to, they just can’t do anything about it.
They know. They just don’t care because he’s “their” monster. Nothing will change in the wake of Nelvany’s death.
This is a harsh lesson in allowing the cult of personality into a democratic election. Everyone should have learned from Hitler’s example but memories are apparently short lived. Now we have people like Netanyahu, Putin, and Trump and a world war is inevitable.
“They” do not hold any particular position. That would be because “they” hold a multitude of positions, at its extreme as many as there are people in the particular society we refer to as “they”.
And lose the drama, because:
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There are always such people.
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Putin became president in 1999 and the last arguably democratic election in Russia was in 1996.
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About Hitler - I think somebody skipped their history and doesn’t know that European states didn’t immediately cease to be colonialist just cause WWII ended and the new reality ensued. And Europeans would behave pretty hitleresque in colonies, think of French in Algeria or maybe Indochina.
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It’s spelled Navalny.
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Putin was one already.
Be careful who you praise:
Navalny took part in the Russian March, an annual demonstration in Moscow that draws ultranationalists, including some who adopt swastika-like symbols. In 2008, Navalny, like an apparent majority of Russians, supported Russian aggression in Georgia. In 2013, he made illegal immigration from Central Asia a central theme of his campaign for mayor of Moscow. In 2014, after Russia occupied Crimea, he said that, while he opposed the invasion, he did not think that Crimea could be just “handed back” by a post-Putin Russian government.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-evolution-of-alexey-navalnys-nationalism
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he did not think that Crimea could be just “handed back” by a post-Putin Russian government.
It is interesting way to rephrase his “Crimea is not a sandwich with sausage to return it back and forth”. For context in 2014 propaganda was talking about annexation as “returning” Crimea to Russia.
Better than Putin. Navalny was at least a step in the right direction, despite his many flaws.
Better in the sense that there were Nazis less crazy than Hitler? Dude supported the invasion and annexation of part of Georgia, and said Russia shouldn’t give back Crimea to Ukraine in 2014.
He apologized later, but when he was running for president he was still a bad dude.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin’s_law
What does Navalny have to do with Adolf and his Nazis?
Do you have a better Russian candidate in mind? Should we just let Putin take the reigns until a Russian Ghandi presents himself?
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And in Russia, you have to appeal to the Nationalists which make up a significant portion of the population. Nationalism doesn’t necessarily mean Nazis.
Navalny appealed to them and was much more in line with western principles than Putin. Like I originally said, Navalny wasn’t perfect but he was a better option than Putin. Seems a few people disagree with me.
I wonder how local fauna will react to Bashkir nationalist Salawat Yulayev. Probably their views will align with Russian Empire’s. And will be opposite to Republic Baskortostan’s. For Bashkirs he is national hero.
For those wondering where Bashkiria is it is roughly in the middle of Russia.
How is a Nazi a “step in the right direction”? There is a lot of opposition to Putin that’s worth supporting, Nazism isn’t one of them
What makes you think he was a Nazi? I really hate how watered down the word Nazi is these days. You’re being hyperbolic.
He compared the people from the region of Caucasus to cockroaches who should be shot and had skinhead and neonazi affiliations.He also supported the invasion of Georgia in 2008, comparing Georgians to rodents. He regularly attended marches of a racist which the slogan is “Russia for ethnic russians”, posted a video where he called for deportations of immigrants…
It’s not a case of exaggeration, he was anti Putin because he wanted a racist in power.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qucpwhtWFjk
It’s still on his Youtube channel. He even shoots a woman in hijab in it! But all his useful idiots will ask you to ignore these dog-whistles. This is of course from back in the day when he was the co-funder of the ultranationalist party National Russian Liberation Movement, that among other things wanted South Ossetia and Abkhazia be made independent from Georgia alá Donbas.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=qucpwhtWFjk
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
It’s still on his Youtube channel.
No?.. How? He didn’t even create his channel until mayor campaign. This video was made years before that?
He even shoots a woman in hijab in it!
Where?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oVNJiO10SWw
It’s his verified account, what more do you want? Argue thats it’s impossible for him to ever have created a new one?
As for where? The video is 40 seconds long, even the most ticktock addicted 4 year old have the attention span to see it.
He compared the people from the region of Caucasus to cockroaches who should be shot
Navalny: *talks about how terrible for Russia Kadirov’s personal army is*
Americans: He must be a racist!
Kadirov’s personal army: *Joins war in Ukraine. On Putin’s side.*
Americans: Navalny is the worst!
“Navalny released YouTube videos in which he likened Islamic militants to cockroaches, called for the deportation of immigrant workers, and vowed to defend the rights of ethnic Russians in Russia.”
This is a pretty mainstream view for a lot of countries.
Anti immigration doesn’t mean you’re a racist.
For context on militants: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamil_Basayev
I’m not sure if you’re right or wrong. We are talking about comments made over 15 years ago.
Let me put it to you this way - would you rather Putin or Navalny in charge of Russia?
In the same way that Biden is preferable to Trump. Biden is far from perfect, has lukewarm political leanings, only advances soft-left policies to better his own election chances and keeps a cop as a vp.
But Trump is an actual war mongering lunatic wannabe fascist. Sometimes it’s about the lesser evil.
Yes, you could say there are plenty of people more worth supporting than these two old farts, but none of them are on the ballot are they?
It’s that situation with Russia. Putin is an actual, proven warmonger who kills his own countrymen to hold on to power. Someone who doesn’t do either of those things and respects the will of the people is a step up, regardless of their politics, because that person can be voted out.
A lot of people on the internet think there’s an electable Abraham Lincoln instead of what the reality is
You’re only saying that because you know what Putin is like in power, with his racist remarks and Nazi affiliations you don’t even know how worse it could have been with Navalny
Racist remarks
You mean like how putin criminalized being gay? It’s one thing to make remarks, it’s another thing to actually oppress a minority by claiming their existence is propaganda.
Nazi affiliation
So taking nazis from prison with the promise of a pardon if they fight on russias front line is… What?
You’re only saying that because you know what Putin is like in power
This is an incredible fallacy. I’m almost lost for words. First of all, any line of logic that relies on the premise “you’re just saying that because you don’t understand how much worse it could be” is just plain wrong. I could say with the exact same amount of confidence that you don’t understand how much better it could be.
But also, Putin is by far the most dangerous leader the world has seen since Hitler. He’s an actual fascist, who disappears people who pose any kind of threat to him. He’s single handedly swinging his entire country into a war they don’t want because he feels entitled to Ukrainian land.
I’d take my chances on literally anyone else who respected the vote. Putin does not. I’d take my chances on someone who would end the war. Putin will see a million of his own die before he even considers it.
Pushing the whole “Navalny was a nazi so he’s automatically worse” is really downplaying how incredibly evil putin actually is. I mean, he’s basically already a nazi in all but name.
Get out of here with your Russian apologetics.
This looks so similar to russian electoral joke and part of Putin’s propaganda “current thieves are full, new will be hungry and steal more”.
only advances soft-left policies
Soft-left? Biden is more right than Navalny.
Biden and rest of American “left”: maybe we shold do some student debt relief? Just a tini-tiny. If you don’t mind.
Party started by literal member of Union of Right Forces: universal education, state must provide students with everything(including housing and food) so they don’t worry about anything else other than learning, state must provide teachers with everything(including decent salary) so they don’t wory about anything else other than teaching, state must provide universities with all necessary equipment, buildings must be maintained in good condition(so ceiling wouldn’t fall on students’ and teachers’ heads)!
