So I just discovered that I have been working next to the waste of oxygen that raped my best friend several years ago. I work in a manufacturing environment and I know that you can’t fire someone just for being a sex offender unless it directly interferes with work duties (in the US). But despite it being a primarily male workforce he does work with several women who have no idea what he is. He literally followed a woman home, broke into her house, and raped her. Him working here puts every female employee at risk. How is that not an unsafe working environment? How is it at even legal to employ him anywhere where he will have contact with women?
Sorry, too many arguments.
What someone did in the past doesn’t mean they’re going to do it again. You may be paranoid about it, but imagine how they feel if they’re a legitimately changed person? That said I’d still be cautious.
I agree with @captainlezbian Was he convicted, or found innocent? Unless he’s doing weird shit that doesn’t justify continued discrimination.
He was found guilty both times he raped someone. Considering he served less than 2 years in prison for his last offence I highly doubt that changed him.
Also considering that he’s a rapist I don’t give a damn how he feels. Rape isn’t like other crimes. You don’t rape someone because you don’t know any better. You don’t rape someone out of necessity. You don’t rape someone on accident. You rape someone because you’re a rabid animal who has no place in society. You don’t fix someone like that. You can only mitigate the risk to others.
In your the last sentences of your last paragraph you could exchange the word rape for murder and it would still be true. Similarly for most crimes there is no necessity. So I really don’t understand why you think “rape isn’t like other crimes”.
It seems like you have your own irrational opinion that you don’t want to change so I really don’t see the point in this discussion.
Murder doesn’t get laughable sentences. Like under two years for a repeated offender.
Murderes also normally don’t have a whole bunch of people online rallying behind their right of redemption. It’s only rapists who get this and suddenly everyone turns into Jesus online and demands the victims better forgive them!
Important to note: in the US people are not found “innocent,” they are found “not guilty.” It may seem pedantic but it’s important to remember that a lack of a conviction is not evidence that they didn’t commit a crime, only that a jury believed there was enough doubt in the evidence to decline to find them guilty.
This is especially relevant to rape cases, where evidence is difficult for outsiders to interpret and a trial result of “not guilty” doesn’t necessarily mean a rape didn’t happen or that the defendant didn’t commit it.
Similarly, “not guilty” does not necessarily mean “guilty, but we couldn’t prove 100%”. So, a lack of conviction is not evidence that they did commit a crime, as you’re implying. This is especially relevant to rape cases.
Why is this “especially relevant to rape cases”?
Not sure how you got that out of my comment which was in reply to someone talking about people being found innocent rather than not guilty.
You’re stating that “not guilty” doesn’t mean “innocent.” I’m adding that “not guilty” doesn’t always mean “guilty but got away with it.” Which part confused you?
So, a lack of conviction is not evidence that they did commit a crime, as you’re implying. This is especially relevant to rape cases.
Guess I’m confused where I said anything remotely like that.
If they didn’t do it they get the same ‘not guilty’ verdict, so what is the recourse for someone who was falsely charged?
I am specifically thinking of the US where there are a lot of black men falsely convicted of violent crimes they did not commit because of racist eye witness testimony or even victims who blame a random black person to avoid social stigma and prosecutors who want higher conviction rates.
A false accusation or conviction isn’t even necessarily because of ill intent from anyone involved (although let’s be real, cops almost always have ill intent); people can just be wrong about who raped them. Eye witness testimony is bad in a neutral setting and horrible in an emotionally charged setting, and if for some reason DNA evidence is unavailable then unfortunately victims are left with nothing but their (human, fallible) eyewitness testimony of what happened.
Intentional false accusation is a whole other ball game, and is already a crime.
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I thought for sure this was about Trump.
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Trump raped E. Jean Carol.
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No they didn’t.
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It did not say it’s not rape. Rape is a criminal term to be used in criminal court. Sexual Assault is the civil court term for rape. He was not punished, he was sued.
What college did you go to kiddo? You seem real dim.
Isn’t everything?
In his mind, yeah.
Hey OP, if all else fails, there seem to be a whole mess of people in these comments who would be more than happy to give a rapist a job, so he could always go and babysit their kids, or drive their sister home late at night in a taxi, or be the orderly watching their sedated aunt who is recovering in hospital, and so on, I’m sure none of them would mind any of that…
Heavens forbid hiring delinquents associated with usernames known to make disparaging remarks on the internet! They should be doxxed and prevented from participating at any level of society! MAGA!
There’s a pretty far cry between leaving a sex offender alone with your child and just having them in an office where there are other people.
What is the alternative to giving rapists jobs? Either they literally are in prison for life, they get the death penalty, or they live on the streets. None of these options seems ideal. Prison is hugely expensive and doesn’t give any opportunity for rehabilitation. The death penalty is rightly abolished where I live, I don’t believe any crime is worth it. And just casting rapists into society with no hope of rehabilitation is a sure way to make them reoffend in one way or another.
Would it be illegal to put up fliers all over the workplace with his mugshot and information about his crime?
Illegal? No. Actually creating a hostile work environment and grounds for immediate termination? Yes.
That would probably fall under harassment and get OP fired.
I’d hardly consider making people aware of who they’re interacting with on a daily basis harassment.
Rooting for op to do this so they can get sued as fuck
When I read the title question, my immediate answer was “If the rapist is a gay man, or a straight woman.”
Reminds me of a joke: A guy walks down the street and mumbles to himself angrily: You cook every fucking day but no one ever calls you a cook. You fix your car all the time but people never call you a mechanic. You have a small garden and grow your own food but when people see you they don’t say “Hey, farmer!”. But you rape someone one single time…
But seriously, for the same reason you don’t ban drunk drivers from driving for life or shoplifter from shopping. People have to function in society somehow, even if they did terrible things in the past.
People have to function in society somehow, even if they did terrible things in the past.
No they don’t, that’s what prisons are for.
Disgusting sentiment.
Lol leave it to a Lemmy troglodyte to balk at the notion that they should be imprisoned for doing horrific shit to other people.
I bet if the rape victim fought back or shot him, you’d tell her off while you’re throwing her in prison though.
Your sexism is showing and it is gross, warty and about 2.5 inches
I’m the troglodyte, sure. The one who DOESN’T want people imprisoned forever. You making a lot of assumptions based on the two words I said. Troll harder.
Yes, you ARE the troglodyte BECAUSE you don’t want to protect other people by imprisoning rapists for life, serious and extreme criminals who need to be kept away from society permanently.
You are a backwards-ass sexist who belongs in the 20th century. You’d get along well with Brett Kavanaugh, Bill Cosby and all of their ilk.
I see you have no idea what you’re talking about
K
You do know one of the points of prison, besides retribution is rehabilitation, just prisoning someone does not constitute a healthy society.
Prisons are supposed to be for rehabilitation. What you are talking about is penal colonies. If we had a working justice system, those who can’t be rehabilitated could get the death penalty. But right now it is cheaper to keep them in prison for life than fix the system. Since this guy is out, he served his sentence and is deemed rehabilitated.
Idgaf what the “justice” system says. I’m giving my opinion of how it should be. I know of child molesters in my home town who were out in 6 years and continued to be pieces of shit. The kids they raped sure as fuck weren’t over the damage they did in that time. A guy raped a member of my family and didn’t get any time at all. Rehabilitation does not work on rapists. The fact that there is a maximum sentence just goes to show that they don’t get out when they’re rehabilitated. They get out when their time is up.
The current system doesn’t even attempt to rehabilitate people. That’s the big problem. The current system just doesn’t work.
Correct. So it’s better to throw away the key than let monsters back on the streets.
“The system doesn’t work. Instead of fixing it, let’s just ruin people’s lives forever. Nevermind the fact that people can change.”
I didn’t say don’t fix it. I said don’t let them back out when nothing was done to rehabilitate them.
It doesn’t matter if people can change, it’s not up to a victim to suffer the presence of their abuser to satisfy an abuser’s interests. Ever.
Your garbage ass rhetoric is the exact same chief enablers use to justify choosing their abusers over the rest of their families, and they destroy their households as a result.
This is why we clearly need to cut people like you out of society as well. You don’t belong here either.
And the shocking percentage of innocent people who are forced into bad plea deals or railroaded by the system? Do we throw away the key for them too?
Those people are why I didn’t say we should execute them. They can still prove their innocence and get out.
There’s a maximum sentence for drug dealers too. Is it impossible to realize the harm that brought to the community?
No? That’s why they’re in prison. I don’t think maximum sentences work. You should be in prison until you’re fixed and ready to not be a criminal when to you get out. I’d hardly compare a drug dealer to a rapist though. A drug dealer can be driven into it by a poor financial situation and the people using drugs are doing so by choice. Rapists don’t have any external factors that drive them to it.
I’m sorry but your logic clearly doesn’t track here. If maximum sentences are proof that there is no rehabilitation then why wouldn’t that be true of drug dealers too?
I never said it was. You’re the one who brought up drug dealers anyway. I said maximum sentences aren’t a good way to do sentencing. The sentence should be “until you are rehabilitated”, regardless of your crime.
That kinda mentality is why america has the most people in prison per capita. Its the only way to rationalize the way the prisoners are essentially being enslaved. So by being commercially productive, people with money (read: with power) will always work to increase the number of prisoners.
I am fine with rehabilitating drug dealers or other non violent crimes and even some violent ones. Rapists should never see the light of day again. There’s no excuse for rape. There’s no “Oh, I didn’t know raping someone was a bad thing” to rehabilitate someone out of. To rape someone you have to be a selfish, shitty person, end of story. We don’t need people like that in society. The resources spent trying to fix them would be better focused on people who need help and have never raped anyone.
Just out of curiosity, what other violent crimes do get a pass for “not knowing it was wrong?”
Like do you believe that people can assault other people with weapons without knowing it was wrong? Can they beat their wives and not know it was wrong?
You seem to have a weird hangup on rape in particular in comparison to other violent crimes when it comes to “knowing it was wrong.”
I’m pretty sure the MS13 guys that butcher people know it’s wrong they just don’t give a shit. I’m sure people who use physical violence to get what they want know it’s wrong but they just don’t care.
Stupid standard, people can rationalize any crime rape ain’t special.
I said some violent crimes.
Like do you believe that people can assault other people with weapons without knowing it was wrong?
If someone assaults somebody in retaliation for something they did to them or a family member where it’s unlikely they would harm anyone else many would argue that can be justified.
Can they beat their wives and not know it was wrong?
No we’re all taught from preschool on not to hit.
I’m pretty sure the MS13 guys that butcher people know it’s wrong they just don’t give a shit. I’m sure people who use physical violence to get what they want know it’s wrong but they just don’t care.
And they should be locked up forever with the rapists.
If someone assaults somebody in retaliation (…) many would argue that can be justified.
Then when someone assaults the assaulter in retaliation for the retaliation? Fuck the rule of law - return to lynch mobs, amirite? Do you say people argue this because you’re one of them and are too much of a coward to say so, or is this an irrelevancy you don’t believe? People argue all sorts of dumb bullshit - it doesn’t make them right.
No we’re all taught from preschool on not to hit.
No exceptions, no discussion entered into - guess we’re locking up the military and police. Of course there are exceptions, and of course people are going to do the mental gymnastics necessary to justify their actions to themselves. That doesn’t make them right, but it does make your standard a transparently terrible one.
People argue all sorts of dumb bullshit - it doesn’t make them right.
They do, and that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be punished, what it does mean is you can look at their reasons when determining whether or not they are likely to re-offend. The person who only kills people who rape their kid is not likely to do it again vs. the person who’s threshold for rape is that they don’t respect other people’s body autonomy when they’re horny.
How about instead of dodging their points, you really think about what they’re saying?
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I hate to say this, but do you know what he’s done to rehabilitate himself? Do you know why he’s allowed to work there? Have you talked to management about what you discovered?
All of your questions are very very leading. Of course we deplore rape. However, despite what you may think, we should all be given a chance to redeem ourselves.
I can understand why you fear for the safety of yourself and others around you. If you do nothing, that is entirely on you. But I do hope that you have compassion and a sense of forgiveness in your heart too. For all you know, you can also be surrounded by thieves and murderers, but none of those are publicly branded.
I urge you to bring this to the management’s attention. Talk to your female coworkers and let them know.
The concept of Redemeption is sadly one that barely exists nowadays. While the crime of rape is unforgivable, a wise woman once said “If Hell is forever, then Heaven’s a lie.”
If we don’t let people have a chance to better themselves and prove that they aren’t the monsters they used to be, then we condemn them to return to their most toxic behaviors.
That said, if someone has a history of vile behavior, then it’s best to warn those you feel can minimize his harm or are vulnerable. He needs to be given a chance for redemption and self-betterment, but he can’t be given free reign either.
In the absolute majority of rape cases there is no bettering themselves happening because the rapists never face any consequences to begin with.
All of your questions are very very leading. Of course we deplore rape. However, despite what you may think, we should all be given a chance to redeem ourselves.
There are a few crimes that are not forgivable, where you lose all right to any benefit of the doubt and should be labeled as dangerous, suspicious, and existential threat for the rest of your life.
Premeditated Rape is one of those crimes.
Premeditated rape is not a accident. its not a crime of passion. it is a deliberate, multi-step action that result in harming and violating another human being in one of the worst ways possible. There were so many points in which any shred of basic human decency that existed in his body could have asserted itself and changed his course, but it didnt. He followed through multiple steps in the process to follow and ultimately violate and his victim in one of the worst ways a person can harm another human being. Because he is a predator, and a threat.
Regardless of his time in jail, he is a threat. he will always be a threat. There is no one around him that is not at risk.
and worse still, because hes already been caught once, he will have learned… and the chances of the next victim escaping alive are slimmer for it.
There is no redemption arc that can unrape his victim, and erase the threat he poses.
It could either be:
- The rapist did not disclose the conviction
- The HR group didn’t perform their due diligence with background checks
OR
- The rapist was not convicted
OR
- Charges were never filed
OR
- Charges were filed but dropped later on
You missed, he did disclose it and HR hired him anyways. Which is legal.
Or he was charged, found guilty, served his time, and got out.
See the first example.
You. Don’t. Matter. Your employer is disgusted they have to pay you. They are your enemy, treat them as such. I’m not talking about your coworker (although dropping a chair on a rapist is understandable), the business however needs you to fail and be on life support so you can only accept their wage.
Legally fuck your company up from the inside.
Was he tried and has he served his sentence? If so, it’s incumbent on society to put aside the personal feelings and help the criminal (yes that’s what I said) re-integrate into society. It’s either that, or fight for a different system.
Life in prison
If that’s what you want to happen to you, I’m sure we can help
So we shouldn’t try to reform people - just piss away a human life at a cost of $14K-$70K per year to the taxpayers in what’s already the most incercerated population in the world, where it’s well established that the threat of prison does nothing to reduce crime, and there would be no puntitve difference between a single rape and a spree?
Got any more of those great takes you’d like to share?
It’s even more dire, because where in the developed world can you incarcerate someone for 14k? I would estimate that depending on the kind of treatment these people get, you’re looking at costs of at least 50% GDP/capita, if not more.
US GDP/capita is around 70k USD, average costs per inmate per year are around 40k USD.
Germany GDP/capita is 46k EUR, average cost per inmate are at around 43k EUR.
So essentially we either kill them or house them inhumanely like livestock forever, OR we reintegrate them and use incarceration as a last resort, there is no other way. People who advocate for life in prison for anything but murder have no clue what they’re talking about.
Apparently you can incarcerate someone in the US for $14K p.a. - though this is at the very low end. Apparently, it’s $18K in Mississippi or $136K in Wyoming.
Sources vary, of course - but this is the general consensus on the ballpark figure. I don’t think it’s wise to use Germany as a proxy for prison costs in the US - the US has too big a prison population and too sadistic an attitude toward them for this to be a reliable reference. That said, average costs appear comparable, and I’ve provided the approximate range.
How is it at even legal to employ him anywhere where he will have contact with women?
If it was illegal for someone to get a job where they could come in contact with 50% of the population you’re just setting them up for failure. What about murderers? Should they be prevented from having a job where they interact with anyone because there’s a chance they’ll kill them?
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I understand that first sentence it’s makes sense, but that second sentence, now come on a murderer should in fact be made known and jobless for some pretty damn obvious reasons.
What about ex military?
Except the number of people who classify veterans as murderers for what they did in combat situations is extremely low…
I feel like having no way to legally get food or shelter would make it more likely they’d commit crime again, not less.
Can’t reach everyone in this thread. Death penalty still exists in some states.
If someone is executed for murder, then you definitely shouldn’t hire them. But if they served their punishment, letting them out of jail and then not letting them earn the money the need to survive is a recipe for disaster.
I of course mean after the murderer has served their sentence.
There’s different reasons for murder that could explain how they’re not a threat. For example someone killing the person that molested their child is unlikely to kill a random coworker. That justification doesn’t really exist for rapists.
You know where you messed up? I don’t have tell you, right?
I love the maturity in the responses to the question here. I was honestly expecting more people to agree with the OP, but it’s been a delight to read such colourful articulations on the reasons why they are wrong. I don’t even need to weigh in here as it’s been said perfectly by so many people here.
Agreeing with OP is the same as saying you don’t believe people can change or get better.
No, it isn’t. You can fully believe in people’s ability to rehabilitate and change, while also being aware that not everyone rehabilitates and changes.
The needs of the perpetrator of a crime need to be balanced against the needs of society at large. This is why you get your license taken away from you when you drink and drive, or why you end up on a sex offenders register.
In this case, there’s a valid argument to be made that this person represents a danger to society, and the need to protect/inform people from him outweighs his desire to not have past crimes revealed.
So what is this guy supposed to do to support himself?
You can feed and house them, of course.
No, people should be able to feed and house themselves.
Yes, they should be able to feed and house themselves, which they can’t do if they’re being forced to work around a rapist.
Obvious. More crime.
If you can get a psychologist to sign off on him having uncontrollable urges then yeah. Otherwise he needs the same chances as every other ex felon.
You can fully believe in people’s ability to rehabilitate and change, while also being aware that not everyone rehabilitates and changes. (…) In this case, there’s a valid argument to be made that this person represents a danger to society
What is that valid argument? OP said that indicates an ongoing danger, and if they’re an ongoing danger, what do we do in response to that beyond not covering up their crimes (which are already reported on the sex offender registry)?
The law is far from perfect, but it’s hard to overstate the danger of basing the rule of law on vibes - which you appear to be doing.
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The same reason a lot of jobs drug test- insurance requirements
Now ask yourself why those insurance requirements exist
Because companies don’t want to take on the liability of hiring someone that they don’t think they can trust.
I don’t really get your narrative about someone hiring a thief over a rapist- both felony convictions will limit your opportunities.
You’re not listening. Companies shouldn’t hire either. And we’re talking specifically about rapists, not thieves. Don’t waste my time trying to strawman.
So what do you propose those convicted do after they’ve served their time?
Good point. Companies willfully hire murderers because you can’t murder a company.
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This is why I am so glad I abandoned Reddit.
Preach, there was a video of a woman on the front page of Reddit, obviously intoxicated and clearly of her mind, and she kept yelling the n word. All while she was getting assaulted. She mentally was clearly not there but all the top comments were defending the assault and saying all kinds of unspeakable shit. Reddit likes to pretend they are smart liberal and enlightened but I’ve seen it descend into a pit of shitheads so many times.
