I’ve seen the video i have worked on farms it doesnt bother me terribly
The videos made me want stricter regulation, it didn’t make me want to go vegan or cut down on meat.
But there are other reasons to be a little more conservative with meat in my diet.
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I am of two minds on the topic. I am sitting here realizing that lab-grown meat and the meat-like alternatives are all, by definition, processed foods. Like, lab-grown meat is just going to end up being beef-like-Velveeta at the end of the day.
If you look into the history of processed foods and why we moved towards them they have some pretty disastrous consequences for our modern life.
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The alternatives of Seitan and tofu are healthier, cheaper and available. Not the heavily processed kind, just the basic ones, are definitely healthier than meat. I try to replace meat regularly by those… especially Seitan can be quite good, it has a good ‘bite’ to it
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I think it’s important to be aware of the process of everything we consume, that way we can influence the impact our habits have.
I watched some pretty terrible films. Watching those did make me cut down on meat and milk, and it made me try to source my animal products from more ethical sources. I still haven’t been able to make the full commitment to veganism or vegetarianism, though, unfortunately.
That being said, I do wish these kinda of films were shown in schools. It would make most people more conscious of the cruelty and harm caused by these industries, and maybe there would be more push to move to more ethical ways of doing things in the meat and dairy industries.
ethical rape. ethical murder. ethical looking the other way.
I spent years chasing my tail trying to be an “ethical” consumer of intelligent creatures. Each time realizing, fuck, I’ve been lying to myself, complicit in my own brainwashing. There’s no such thing as the ethical consumption of intelligent creatures.
This is the attitude that makes people turn away and ignore the entire issue. The fact of the matter is that people don’t care about animals and they think this viewpoint is absurd. You have to give them arguments that are self-serving, because they will never equate “ethical meat” with “ethical murder”.
What’s rule 2? Hell, what’s RULE 1?!
I’m not here, in the fucking VEGAN community forum, to hold the hand of fucking animal abusers. So sorry.
The animals we create are morally equivalent to our own children. They are owed the unconditional love and protection of their creators.
This is fair. You are right. I am not claiming that my way of eating is ethical as it stands at all. I am in the camp of wanting lab grown meat to be widely available and cheap. That is ethical if done right. I already eat meat substitutes, but my finances are not great and sometimes it’s hard to beat the cost effectiveness/nutritional value of regular ground beef or eggs and bacon. In those cases I at least try to buy the least tortured meat I can afford, if you get what I am saying. I do appreciate that there are empathetic people like you in the world.
I find it hard to understand the disconnect you must experience.
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Its human nature to dissociate. You have different moral meters for different situations. I still think its important that these animals live and die in a comfortable environment but banning meat is not a solution.
“X stance, 'cause I’m smarter than you”
I think you misunderstood the sign. What does intelligence have to do with this?
Did you just criticize… having a stance on things? Like the whole concept of believing things are true?
I actually don’t have a bone to pick with not living in a state of constant uncertainty about everything.
Its just one could put literally any position at the top of the sign and be just as insufferable.
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Yeah i always thought that as well. What you are describing are probably not the videos in question here. Try watching Dominion the whole way through. www.watchdominion.org
watched it all the way through, still eating meat. any more media you want me to consume, like meat?
You should really read the sidebar of places outside your instance before posting, otherwise your instance might get rather unhappy with how you’re not bothering to listen to anyone’s rules when travelling around.
ever see that movie The fugitive? there is a scene in it where harrison ford has tommy lee jones at gun point and desperately states to jones that he did not kill his wife.
Jones character just shakes his head “I don’t care”
I’ve seen those videos, a lot of them. I still choose to eat meat. I totally disagree with the implication that anyone who eats meat is being willfully ignorant of evidence that would convert them.
So then why do you eat meat? Are you just a selfish narcissist who thinks their pleasure is more important than anything else? Or what is it?
Because scientific evidence hates you.
Scientific evidence is unbiased, you hate them.
Are you just a selfish narcissist who thinks their pleasure is more important than anything else?
I’ve been a vegan for almost a decade, and I’ve finally started to see how self-entitled carnists are. How I used to be. I thought that I was entitled to the bodies of other living, sentient beings.
Holier than thou.
Maybe you should consider the possibility that some people in some aspects of life really are holier than thou and you could learn from them. Imagine someone pointing out to a serial killer how not killing is more moral and the killer answers with “Holier than thou.”. Would this be a good comeback?
This is not an equivalent situation, being vegan or vegetarian does not make you legitimately “holier than thou”. It is not a virtuous enough decision to be “holier” than the average person, and eating meat is not a bad enough action to be comparable to being a serial killer.
Just because it is not comparable to a serial killer does not mean that it’s not bad enough to warrant a holier label. How do you justify killing and torturing an animal just for taste pleasure?
I dont kill or torture animals, I support an industry that does by buying the products they create. That is not bad enough of an action for you to be holier.
Of course I’m not a ‘selfish narcissicist who thinks their pleasure is more important than anything else’, that’s total hyperbole (and the fact you exaggerated the fuck out of something doesn’t make anyone think you’re more intelligent or your point holds more weight).
I will answer you, but my reasoning really doesn’t matter. For me its a combination of the lack of impact I as an individual consumer can have on that industry, and the negative affects veganism can take on your nutrition.
Also, there is ZERO scientific evidence that humans should not eat meat. Unless you’re trying to say those videos are “scientific evidence” that I should be vegan, in which case I think you have psychosis.
If every one went vegan like vegans do, then there absolutely wouldn’t be a lack of impact, what a bizzare thing to suggest?
If everyone acts like you and goes “ah well, I can’t change anything”, that flawed “logic” can be used to commit any number of atrocities.
I do like that “scientific evidence” argument though. Like, “sorry judge there’s no scientific paper decrying killing people with a car so I did it”. You don’t need a scientist to tell you to do an objectively good thing - in this case stopping the unnecessary culling of sentient life for your tastebuds.
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I understand that fully, trust me, but I only control my own actions. I do not care enough about the issues surrounding meat production to take that action knowing I will not enact any change. If I cared enough about those issues, I wouldn’t care if anyone else followed. (As you have).
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That logic only applies on an individual basis, and has to be weighed against how much you care about something.
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I feel you have my point confused, you think I said: “There is ZERO scientific evidence that humans abstaining from eating meat would have a positive impact on our world.”
I said: “There is ZERO scientific evidence humans should not eat meat.”
What do you mean you’ll have no impact?? You realised for every piece of meat you don’t eat, that’s less demand for an animal to be killed right? Not to mention the significant reduction in carbon emissions. That’s not including the change you impart on others. I was convinced to go vegan, and I’ve convinced others as well.
Your first point is just straight out wrong. Do you vote? Or is the fact your vote doesn’t single handedly decide the election enough to dissuade? Your logic could be used by a murderer to go “well, there’s murder in the world that I can’t stop, so I might as well keep murdering!”. Very very broken logic.
I agree with you the only argument against veganism is “I don’t care”. But then you must accept you are a person who knowingly commits bas deeds, deeds you could easily stop today, but choose not to out of greed.
And your third point is just weird? If you accept that scientific discourse agreed abstaining from meat has a worldly positive impact, isn’t that enough? Or is the scientifically supported increase in life expectancy associated with veganism not enough?
I choose not to because I do not care enough to make that decision when it will have no impact. Even if my vote has no impact, I care much more about who gets elected.
I care much more about whether humans should dietarily eat meat than whether abstaining from eating it has monetary or carbon benefits.
so if I’m a ceo trying to not waste money, and my margin for acceptable wasted product is 90% sold 10% unsold, even one person worth of lost sales of meat has a definite possibility of making me buy less next shipment. Even if they’re buying it by the giant crate, if I’m buying meat crates according to a formula, your 1 purchase could be the one that sways me for or against buying another. Do that over the course of 10 years and this turns from a possibility to essentially guaranteed.
I dont care enough to make that small of an impact.
While I get this, maybe it’s better to look at it as the individual animals you’re saving. Red cross members know there are hundreds of millions of lives they can’t save, and the world should change to where these people don’t need the help, but they’re still saving the life of someone here and now. A cow is maybe “less” than a human life, but you’re saving them a lifetime of suffering.
Even just reducing meat to where it’s not a huge annoyance can still make a big difference.
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I can totally see the individual impact argument. Still personally I think if everyone thinks this way, nothing’s gonna change. On the other hand if a sufficient amount of people tries it’s gonna change everything. We just need to be enough individuals to be a movement.
Then again “ZERO scientific evidence”: yeah just fuck yourself. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jul/20/vegan-diet-cuts-environmental-damage-climate-heating-emissions-study There are several studies showing that we could easily tackle the global hunger crisis, which will only worsen in the next years by going vegan. https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets And that’s just one example of “scientific evidence that humans should not eat meat.”
Neither of those links show any evidence as to why humans should not eat meat. They show evidence as to why humans eating meat could assist in dealing with the effects of climate change, but that is not the same claim.
I think it’s worse to admit that you’re fine with inflicting that kind of pain on animals and still enjoy the end result. There’s a reason they tell parents to be wary of kids who enjoy torture. You’re just a step below that.
Holy shit, you are so delusional and full of yourself. You sound like prepubescent teenagers on Xbox Live that call people “pathetic” every chance they get. 💀💀 Get over yourself.
When in a series there is a serial killer it’s always the person who enjoyed to torture animals as kid. Take a guess why.
Because people who enjoy torture enjoy torture?
Media likes to play with stereotypes and deliver a story which seems to make sense. It’s not a field study on human psychology.
If you’re trying to make a comparison, it makes no sense at all.
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I’ve never seen evidence that all the videos are doctored. I’m sure some exist and you could point to them, but theres a known mental health issue in the meat industry for a reason. I don’t know how the folks who don’t have a problem with it keep it up. Makes me actually wonder a bit more about them.
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DAE FIND ONE LE HOAX AND ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING SAID ANYWHERE IS NOW INVALID ENJOY THE BORGER TREATS WITH A CLEAR CONSCIENCE
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Stahp
That’s an old stale meme that should stay in the ground please.
About the rest: I didn’t make the “hoax” video. No one here probably did. It’s actually a lot easier for the ruling class to finance one for movement derailing purposes than it is for you to get your wish and to make everyone “stahp” as you’re apparently demanding.
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Sorry
You’re not.
lol
Doesn’t hide the outrage.
Hmm. I think it’s important to be sceptical and not believe everything you see. But, let’s also ask ourselves, is that why there are growing number of states passing ag-gag laws that make it illegal to record actual abuse and mistreatment? Because these actual recordings were ‘hit pieces’?
The excuse from the industry is they are taken out of context, but no context would excuse the worst of the videos that show outright cruelty and suffering animals. For example, regulations on how much room fowl need only exist because of how terribly they were treated by being crammed into cages where they coukdn’t move being caught on camera.
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No, they mean the ones that actually do show animals suffering in terrible conditions or being killed on ways that cause suffering that are not uncommon and have lead to more regulations because of the terrible practices. Kind of like the police, there is plenty of terrible behavior even though not every place is as bad as the worst videos, but even if only 10% of animals suffered it would be worth bringing to everyone’s attention.
And it is more likely to be the majority of animals to be perfectly honest. I am not a vegan becsuse I think that there is the possibility of humane farming practices, but do acknowledge that the food production industry’s largest producers are regularly caught being cruel to animals to save a few bucks and see why someone would oppose it because the system incentivises suffering.
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If they really wanted change, vegans would become anticapitalists instead.
Why not both?
Because the logistics and economics needed to sustain veganism counteract the anti-capitalism, you don’t end up getting anything done.
That’s a bold claim that demands elaboration.
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But then I’m busy being a local farmer, not an anticapitalist. Subsistence veganism provides even less time and energy to fight the system.
Ah yes, vegans have to spend so much time eating they can’t fight the system. That’s a totally sensible argument.
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“I stopped being human, because I saw the videos on liveleak you refuse to watch”
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Locking this thread as it lost any usefulness and it’s getting popular among edgelord kids
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Shut the fuck up loser
Go deny climate change some more
Dude, i was there.
A lot of cruelty under capitalism is publicly permitted because people don’t see how the metaphorical sausage is made.
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You’re so brave and edgy and contrarian.
Don’t waste time on pizza slicers. They’re all edge and have no point.
Dunking them for a line at a time is a small price to pay to watch the nazis thrash and screech and fling their own shit.
