A federal judge has blocked the state of Hawaii from enforcing a recently enacted ban on firearms on its prized beaches and in other areas including banks, bars and parks, citing last year’s landmark U.S. Supreme Court ruling expanding gun rights.
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Oh yeah, well what about MY freedom to go to a beach and not be worried about getting fucking SHOT? Why do THEY get all these rights and freedoms while WE have to suffer the consequences? I don’t fucking get it. What about our rights to not get shot?
If someone wants to go to the beach with a gun, with the purpose of shooting at people, you think a law is going to stop them?
Two groups of morons both armed started a ruckus, pulled their guns, started shooting, and now an innocent bystander CHILD is fucking dead. Because idiots couldn’t leave their guns at home. It’s not all about active shooters.
Witnesses described the scene as two groups of Hispanic males shooting at one another, police said.
Don’t you just love all this freedom we have?!?
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what about the liberal gun owners?
Good luck finding a liberal gun owner who is bringing it to a beach…
This is the twisted retarded logic that conservatives hold.
“I’m a piece of shit who wants to bring a gun to the beach, Liberals must want the same terrible things I do”
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Why do they defend so hard for like the one weird out of 1000 who openly waves a gun around that makes everyone extremely uncomfortable. People around open carriers don’t think “wow freedom!”, they get super fucking uncomfortable.
Because that one out of a thousand is also the noisiest person at their local officials office
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look just cuz they have a life sentence doesn’t mean we can start killing each other’s politicians. we need that do-nothing POS controlled opposition party to expand the court
Say goodbye to tourist dollars from Asia.
There’s a Simpsons for this one:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSimpsons/comments/sj4gz4/ukelele_pineapples_beach_pistol_scandalously/
Hawai’i isn’t legally part of the US; the federal judge’s opinion has no bearing there.
I bet you’re one of those “sovereign citizen” types, aren’t you?
How much do you bet?
So long as the people with political and physical power follow that opinion, I think you’ll find it has rather a lot of bearing, actually.
Does the state flag have gold fringe? Does this fall under Maritime Law?
I’m sorry, what now?
Hawai’i was illegally annexed and the indigenous people never agreed to joining the US.
BBC article covering the basic facts, with something of a pro-US slant Wikipedia’s summary of the issue, with links to more references
You mean like every U.S. state? Or did we ask permission from the indigenous people the rest of the time?
I hate to break this to you but that’s true for literally all the continental US too.
Good ruling. If I’m just walking through public land legally carrying I shouldn’t be bared from an area just because of its proximity to water. 2nd amendment is clear on that.
USA: Has major gun violence problem.
US legal system: yEw cANt tAYKE thUR fReeDUMB
What happened to respecting states rights? So sick of the judicial branch in the US, the most untethered and corrupt branch of them all. Which is saying a lot considering the state of the legislative branch.
Republicans want all power consolidated at the level they can most effectively control. They were only ever about “states’ rights” because they typically are better at capturing state governments than national institutions.
Ummmm, pretty sure the fucking bill of rights trumps state right ffs.
Until 15 years ago, there wasn’t an individual right to bear arms, so talking about “the Bill of Rights” really just means “the Conservative Supreme Court”.
The rights outlined in the Bill of Rights are natural rights and predate the document.
And nothing in the Bill of Rights says you have an individual right to constantly be armed for personal safety.
Pretty sure that the “shall not be infringed” part of bearing arms covers that. The 2nd amendment is an individual right, so there you go. If you are trying to say that the 2nd is somehow the only non-individual right in the Bill of Rights, I’d argue poor context interpretation. If you are trying to say that it requires militia affiliation, I’d argue that the Militia Act that required the people to supply their own guns and ammo pretty effectively proves the people were supposed to be armed before being called to the militia. If you are arguing that you just don’t like the 2nd, then get ~75% of the country and state governments to agree with you and update or repeal it with the required constitutional amendment.
If the Second Amendment was clear in its individual right to bear arms for personal protection (a much different thing from just owning guns), then it wouldn’t have taken until 2008 for it to be recognized, and anyone pretending the Second Amendment is a clearly worded amendment with broadly agreed on meaning is just delusional.
Previous supreme courts have ruled that the constitution only applied to the federal government, allowing states to restrict the rights of their citizens to vote, speak, assemble, etc. Does that mean that it isn’t clear that our individual and constitutional rights were intended to apply at a state or local level? I am not saying that it is broadly agreed upon, but I do think that the founder’s documents and correspondence surrounding the Bill of Rights, along with contemporary laws like the Militia Act, provide enough context for it being an individual right.
In 1792 the government required that the individual would have their own rifle, bayonet, gunpowder, and ammunition to bring with them if they answered the called to join the militia, which is hard to do if they didn’t have the right to individually own said guns and ammo. Same with the fact that every other amendment in the BoR is an individual right.
If it was only the ability to own guns so that they could be brought in case the owner was called to join a militia, but not to use them in any other way why would it specify the right to bear those arms and not just to keep or own them? If the individual right is to own guns and use them as tools for hunting and sport, where does the limitation on using them for defense come from? Are knives or any other tools that can be used in a fight included in any of this? I’d consider knives under the right to bear arms, plus it is a frequent argument that they serve other purposes so get an exception.
States’ rights only exists in the eyes of Conservatives if it’s related to owning other humans.
It was never a thing, and the GOP has never given a shit about it.
Hawaii is a colonial project and isn’t respected by the federal court circuits in the same manner that continental states are. It’s closer to Guam and Puerto Rico than other states in that it carries disproportionate financial and military burdens, including the effects from the Jones act for example.
I gotta say, my understanding of MLism is pretty spotty, but a Lemmygrad user opposing the Jones Act seems really weird.
Anti-Jones arguments are generally just raw-freetradeism – advocating to remove protectionist regulations so businesses can off-shore (literally off shore) their shipping to cheaper foreign crews, with the (supposed) benefit being that they will save money and then pass the savings on to the consumer. Were you a big NAFTA fan as well?
Prices in US territories such as Guam, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico are sky-high due to the Jones Act to protect American industries at the expense of colonized people. It’s more about the where the ship was built and who operates them than the workers themselves.
Yes, I am a big fan of NAFTA as well. The only parts I dislike are the parts that allow free movement of capital, disallow free movement of people, and protection of IP.
Wild. And the unions who argue against free-tradeism are the bad guys?
Labor is almost always the largest contributor to any business’s costs and offshoring it is very popular with capital, so waving away the 75% American crew requirement as “not about the workers” is wrong. From a DOT study, in 2010 an American crew costs 5x what a foreign crew does.
I live in Hawaii and while I don’t like paying more to subsidize US domestic shipbuilding (if the government wants to subsidize our shipyards, they should do it themselves), but when the major voices advocating for this (in Hawaii) are Republicans, libertarians, and business-oriented Democrats like Ed Case (one can argue those aren’t really three separate categories), I get wary. Because this sure looks like every other time capital wanted to stop having to pay so many expensive Americans with their benefits and labor protections when they could instead offload to foreign workers without any of that. And they pinky swear promise they’ll give us cheaper stuff in return rather than just pocketing the difference.
Your bad guy, good guy view of the world is myopic.
American labor vs International labor is a false dialectic that is used to pit working class against each other by the capital. You do realize that right? How is the Jones Act about the workers as you state when it doesn’t stipulate better working conditions, better pay, or ownership in the business itself? I don’t think you’re seriously arguing that the main reason for the price gouging that is happening in Hawaii is due to higher pay for American crew members, so I’ll ignore that.
In general, Marxists are internationalists and we don’t care about protecting American workers over other workers. I would be a syndicalist if I argued for the supremacy of the union.
You can talk all you want about an international brotherhood, but these are people’s livelihoods you’re dismissing as unimportant.
And requiring American labor IS stipulating working conditions, because there is a very real difference between the working conditions of Americans and foreign sailors. This sounds like all you ever engage in is theory, while capital favors foreign workers because they don’t have the same power (and expense) that American workers have.
Much of the American owned fishing fleet is entirely staffed by much cheaper foreign labor unable to leave their ships because their American company can get away with not applying for work visas. They didn’t just happen to end up with foreign crews effectively held captive during port calls, they do it because they’re cheaper and unable to easily challenge their bosses on conditions.
This isn’t a case of an open labor market where everyone is on an equal footing and Americans simply choose not to do this work. Americans simply can’t work for 70 cents an hour and bosses prize workers that don’t have worker protections and can’t demand more.
For many boat owners, the fishermen are a bargain: Bait and ice can cost more than crew salaries. Some of the foreign workers in Hawaii earn less than $5,000 for a full year. By contrast, the average pay for an American deckhand nationwide last year was $28,000, sometimes for jobs that last just a few months, according to government statistics. Experienced American crew members working in Alaska can make up to $80,000 a year.
An American crew has recourse and the force of law when an employer just refuses to pay their workers.
U.S. Customs and Border Protection and the Coast Guard routinely inspect the Hawaiian boats. At times, fishermen complain they’re not getting paid and officers say they tell owners to honor the contracts. But neither agency has any authority over actual wages.
When your labor solidarity philosophy leads you to support and defend the position of capital, a position known to depower workers and empower abuse, it feels like that’s the point where you should be thinking about what the whole point is.
So you are deliberately ignoring your previous point about how the main business cost and therefore the reason for the high prices in Hawaii is due to higher wages for American sailors. It’s curious how you weren’t actually arguing in good faith then.
You do realize that America as a country can simply change its regulation to stipulate equal pay and treatment for foreign crew members who dock in American ports or are employed by American companies, right? You are arguing that Americans and American companies are allowed to treat foreign workers under horrible conditions, so it is labor solidarity to employ only American workers. Do you see how deranged that sounds when we get down to the meat of it?
Nothing else matters when something like MUH GUNS are at stake
Republicans only care about state’s rights when they can use state law to push one of their terrible policies at state level because they can’t force it nationally.
i.e. slavery
Republicans have no political platform, but they do have a judicial agenda.
That Supreme Court case was a ridiculous rewriting of historical facts.
That can apply to just about every case the Supreme Joke have given the last few years
“Who needs guns on the beach”
I’m trans. Id sooner never go. But if I had to, with the way things are going, you bet your ass I am afraid and would rather be armed
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just don’t go anywhere you’re likely to be shot. Like school, work, the grocery store, church, urban areas, suburban areas, rural areas, bars, restaurants, nightclubs, daycare centers…
Without even addressing the moral panic and domestic terrorism currently being whipped up against trans people the fact is that “just don’t go places where people are allowed to carry” is a bad solution even for the average person.
Hell yes. Make guns a nonpartisan “nonissue.” Armed minorities are harder to oppress, and gun control disproportionately affects minorities in marginalized and overpoliced communities. One state just removed the requirement for pistol purchase permits because (as it was designed to be in the first place since it was a Jim Crow era law) racist sheriffs were denying black people’s permits, 60% of denials were to black people.
Yeah, famously, the US doesn’t oppress minorities because of all the guns.
There’s a reason California has so much gun control, and it is Ronald Reagan being racist in the 80’s because the Black Panthers were exercising their right to bare arms, because it was making it harder for the police to oppress them. In fact CCW and purchase permits were designed and are often still used as a way to keep POC from exercising their rights, as it makes them harder to oppress if they can carry. They use gun control to oppress those minorities, things like stop and frisk, or denying permits and charging them when they carry anyway. They enforce this gun control primarily in overpoliced marginalized minority neighborhoods, not in gated communities or majority white neighborhoods. Regardless of your intentions or perceptions, the real life effects of gun control are these, and it is harder to oppress a person/community/people who have guns than one who does not.
While Reagan was racist and was responsible for a lot of bad shit in the '80s, what you’re talking about with the Panthers was in the late '60s.
@sin_free_for_00_days @ArcaneSlime
Reagan was governor of CA in the 60’s. And he never changed his ways.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/gun-control-rights-restrictions-black-panthers-reagan-11663703535
Girlfreddy was quick with it! But yeah, that.
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As a trans person, would you rather go to a beach where nobody is armed, or to a beach where everybody might be armed?
I’m not trans, but I’d rather go where everyone might be armed. Just because everyone is supposed to not bring a gun somewhere doesn’t mean there won’t be someone that does- how many shootings in the US happen in “gun free zones”?
I’ll foolishly assume this is a comment posted by a human in good faith and not a troll or a bot.
Does fog of war mean anything to you? Go to a crowded place where everyone is armed. Person 1 is a baddie and kills person 2. Person 3 is a Good Guy and shoots person 1. People 4, 5, and 6 are also Good Guys With Guns and didn’t directly observe the original altercation, they only observed Person 3 shooting Person 1, and assume Person 3 shot Person 2 as well. People 4, 5, and 6, open fire on Person 3. They are bad shots though and the adrenaline dump makes them miss, so People 7, 8, and 9 get shot in the crossfire. At this point it is total chaos, everyone is either shooting at everyone else (fight), running in panic (flight), getting shot in the crossfire (freeze), or just shrieking their head off at the carnage in front of them (freak). Then the police arrive and shoot the survivors.
Congratufuckinglations, we now have a bunch of bodies and dozens of traumatized people because you morons couldn’t leave your fucking guns at home and enjoy the goddamn beach.
I hate this country so much sometimes.
Only in the US. When I go to the beach in my country, Australia, I’d never even consider the possibility of a gunman.
Why the fuck does anyone need a gun on the beach? I can’t think of one justifiable argument for needing one there.
Seagulls
I guess. They are rats of the sky.
🤣
Well, what it someone really, really wants to get sand and salt water into all the little nooks and crannies and tightly clearanced areas in their gun?
But, what if someone sees an undesirable, having a good time, and simply wants to exercise their god-given right to harass them without fear of consequences?
How do you stand your ground at them without this most basic thing?
It’s really sad that a lot of Americans think that’s an actual valid argument.
Isn’t it? I got sad writing it.
My alternative was to point out that some sharks are black and there are cops on the beaches but I felt this line does a better job. Slightly more relevant.
It’s not a valid argument, because frankly both harassment and brandishing a firearm are both illegal everywhere in the USA, which means there actually is consequences.
Brandishing a firearm? Cops will shrug and say if you weren’t shot, there’s no issue and laugh at you.
To fight the dangerous riptide?
Yea, but do you think most people know that you have to shoot perpendicular to the rip tide and not parallel to kill it?
A well tanned Militia, being necessary to the security of a free Shore, the right of the beachgoers to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Best comment I’ve read on lemmy yet.
lol This one made me laugh.
The law in question prohibits licensed carry of firearms from a list of areas and premises, it does not only ban guns on beaches.
posted by @30mag@lemmy.world
Land sharks
Your right, damn sandsharks.
Hmm. Fair point.
Because they’re constantly pants shittingly terrified of anything they don’t understand and need a gun to feel anything other than the constant overwhelming feeling of cowardice in the face of normal life.
Good point.
Well duh how else are you going to protect yourself from all the other armed people on the beach?
And like, what about sandcrabs?
Beach moose.
“Beach moose! Everybody run for cover! I’ll take care of this!” and then I just started blastin’…
It’s like that Taylor Swift song goes: “It’s like guns on the beach, weird but fuckin beau-POP POP POP POP”.
It’s an American classic.
Damn, the US annexation of Hawai’i continues to hurt their nation :-(
I hope one day they can win their freedom back.
