Summary
Ontario will impose a 25% surcharge on electricity exports to New York, Michigan, and Minnesota starting Monday in retaliation for Trump’s tariffs on Canadian goods.
Premier Doug Ford warned U.S. governors and vowed to maintain the surcharge until all tariffs are lifted.
Canada has already imposed $30 billion in retaliatory tariffs, with more planned.
Ford also threatened to cut power to the states by April and banned U.S. firms from bidding on Ontario contracts. A $100M SpaceX deal for rural internet was also scrapped in response.
Since Trump wants to complain about the trade deficit, Canada should cap exports to be equal to imports from the US. Poof no more trade deficit.
Just cut off the oil, that would do it.
Alberta makes all their money off oil, most pipelines dip down into the US because Native groups have a fit whenever pipelines attempt to cross certain provinces. Michigan has the same fit about those pipelines, but that’s mostly because ships dropping anchor over the pipelines and the ecological disaster that would occur makes them uneasy. Everyone wants oil, but until the world turns into Minecraft and we learn to send liquids wirelessly, someone’s fucked.
Looks like Crude Oil Tax would be FAR more effective.
I’m ok with this and live in one of the affected states.
Why are mostly blue states getting punished for shithead? They should be focusing on red states. They’re the ones who voted for this nonsense.
In addition to the other answers, there are still red districts in blue states, such as NY-21 currently held by Stefanik and has a large border with Canada.
If they don’t like it, they need to find a way to hold their president accountable. Trump can end this conflict with a word. Until then, we do what we have to.
Unfortunately they are the ones getting power provided to them from Ontario.
I don’t know all the facts but maybe if more people.votrd in the first place Donald wouldn’t have won? Maybe not… But Americans should be pushing back and they haven’t done anything yet but complain online. Pushing any single one of them to take action is better than only attempting to punish the ones who don’t even care.
USA is USA.
People outside of the USA will treat you the same as you treat any other nation. Does trumps tariffs only target the liberal provinces?
Because, it turns out, that blue states and red states are part of the same country. I think it’s a stupid way to do things, but that’s what you guys have settled on.
I wonder if ON can impose a 25% surcharge solely on Michigan? Ultimately, it doesn’t really matter. Plenty of people from Minnesota (47%) and New York (43 %) voted for this nonsense.
Eh, upstate NY is probably all red, save for perhaps part of Albany. NY State and NY City are very, very different.
Canada can’t exactly cut off power to Texas
However, we’re willing to export our Arctic Vortices to Texas free of any additional levies.
Texas handles their own outages perfectly well.
DTE in shambles
No offense but Trump would welcome these on highly liberal Minnesota and New York and be impartial to Michigan. These are not affecting conservative states.
The states as a whole are liberal, but the rural northern parts are fairly conservative. It’s the northern parts that consume the bulk of the electricity imports
It will affect the customers, who are rural. The states are blue, because of their cities, but the cities aren’t reliant on Canadian electricity. The rural areas are, and they vote red.
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To be fair, does it matter if it’s a blue state either way?
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Do you have a source on that? I’d really expect they’re all on the same grid.
Of course they’re on the same grid. Most of the US is interconnected. The Eastern interconnect connects everything East of the rockies, excluding Texas
Prices are fairly localized depending on the cost of production at the plant nearest to you. Much of Southern Minnesota is fed by the Monticello nuclear plant, for example. It’s the northern areas where Canadian power generation isblargely used because it’s closer. It’s those places that will have try to get power from elsewhere in the upper midwest grid (if there isbany capacity), or pay the additional 25% tax
TIL, thanks.
Do you really think the Trump supporters will connect the dots?
JD Vance showed how much he cares about rural communities in Hillbilly Eulogy. Rural Americans are just impressionable pawns to Trump and his ilk.
I’m not entirely sure he would care either way to be fair, but you do raise a good point.
Makes you wonder if this is the first phase of what he meant about “blue states completely disappearing off the map” next year.
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Yes. Unfortunately, it’s a very blunt instrument. The rest of our tariffs have been ultra-targeted, but Doug Ford really wants to do something and this is the main tool he has provincially.
There’s enough rural, conservative areas within those states that would be affected I imagine Trump will have some blowback. How much is hard to say at this point, especially given that he’s still adding and removing his own tariffs all the time.
Based Doug Ford was not on my 2025 bingo card.
And Trump cares that these blue states will be cut off why?
Michigan is a blue state?
No, but the other two are, and New York in particular is a very notable blue state.
New York is also notable for being where Fox News is based. The employees of that organization feeling some pain will make it more likely the story of the negative impacts of Trump’s tariff policies will be reported by the only “news” media that matters in the US right now. We know Fox News showed a car dealer saying the price of a Ford Truck was going up by $20K and the next day the auto industry was exempted by tariffs.
Also it’s likely dependent on how contract with the utilities in that area is structured. It may not be possible to be all that granular in where it effects. But we definitely need NYC affected so Fox News will be affected. Sorry to everyone else, but it’s a Trade War and like in any war, there will be collateral damage.
Maybe a state like NY votes blue in state wide elections, but they vote in a lot of Republicans for the House in districts outside if NYC
We are blue in cities… a lot of house support for Trump comes from those red NYS districts.
Just do it please
Any foreigner should avoid visiting US or buying US products to put pressure too.
It is crazy to advocate for it, as I live in US, but this administration needs pressure from everywhere.
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Brit here, I make sure to try and pay more attention and avoid American products now. Not that I bought many before, cola is probably the main one when at a pub/restaurant. Now if there is nothing else I want I just get water. So probably a healthier switch.
Pretty sure american products don’t have much of a presence outside of the USA because they’re actually low-quality and expensive.
Is that so? In my experience (obviously it depends on the company) American made is, like, one of the gold standards? I’ve never had issue with American made things 🤷♀️
Again, I’m sure it depends on the product, and I may just have bias because I meticulously research just about everything before I buy, so I may just be buying the really good US made stuff, and most other things are crap, idk. Just like Germany and Japan have things that they really excel in; Australia too, etc.
Take cars, for example. Americans don’t export their cars on the same level as Japan or even South Korea because their cars are shit.
I have a friend who used to sell rental car insurance and he’d tell me that it’s the American cars that always break down.
I’m American and looking around my room, the vast majority of products are coming from other nations. My bass guitar. My speakers. My controllers. My laptop. My mouse. My headphones. Etc etc.
Buying AmericanTM is just propaganda for useful idiots. I guarantee you most people who are afraid of foreign products or tout American-made quality are simply talking from a lack of experience. They’re afraid of what they don’t know and don’t want to have an experience that might show them they’re wrong.
I mean, I did say that it depends on the product. And based on the things you listed, maybe you’re not the demographic that seeks out the quality items that the US does make? Like hiking boots, for instance: several companies based in the US make incredible boots. Textiles in general as well: usually when a garment is made in the US, it’s a really good quality item.
I also have a good set of screwdrivers made in the US that I use often to restore sewing machines. Cutlery and dishes as well.
These are things just off the top of my head 🤷♀️
US made things that are the best or in a small group of the best:
Hand tools, power tools, machine tools, alloys, plastics, clothing/footwear, hardware, firearms, whiskey, porn, movies/shows, glass/ceramics, camping/outdoor, and all sorts of luxury items.
Affordability is a different issue. There are usually options that are good enough and cheaper.
Yeah, I’m discouraged to even buy American because Trump and the Republicans have basically turned that into a nationalist policy. I used to love buying American and local, but it feels gross to think that I’m supporting their agenda.
As an American- Agree. The dumbfucks in this country aren’t going to understand they fucked up, until the pain kicks in.
Except 2/3 of those states voted blue.
It sucks, but that’s where we are at. It’s not like the majority of the Dems are doing anything to actually fight back against this. If blue states get hit too, it might actually get them moving.
Fair point. I just wish they hit more red states.
Same, man. I just wish we weren’t going through any of it, but we have too many emotionally and mentally stunted people over here that have us in this situation in the first place.
Plenty of red outside the cities, though, and if they figure out why they’re suddenly paying more for electricity, it may change a few minds about Republicans.
Of course, they’re more likely to just blame Democrats for it, but one can hope.
Because of cities. NYC and Minneapolis-St. Paul carried their states. The northern parts of both are fairly red. They’re the ones that will feel the biggest pinch
How many of those people have rifles?
It will likely take awhile for this to have any effect. I know at least in my state (ME) the utility needs to give a 30 day notice of rate hike and then that needs to then go to committee within public utility commission, who will basically arbitrate the request for increase.
Consequently, my supplier of electricity is a wholly owned Canadian company…so they’d actually be paying the increase until a rate hike was approved. Also, would a punitive rate hike even be approved?
They have enough trouble getting a 1% rate hike though for building infrastructure.
Edit: Although I’m not up to speed on if the affected states have set rates or variable rates.
On the other hand there are logging trucks piling up at the border on the golden road right now!
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Kudos to the Canadians and Canadiens! I ordered another pair of Baffin boots, Made in Canada, last week.
I like it, but I’m a little confused.
Why does an individual province determine trade policy? Is this normal for Canada?
The deal is between the provincial utility, which provides the electricity, and the state utility. In the USA, the federal government controls most resource rights. In Canada, it’s the provinces. Comparatively, provinces are a lot more powerful than states are. As I understand it.
Yes, and we even have a lot of interprovincial trade issues. Although with what is happening with the US, we are trying to simply cross provincial trading.
Afaik Quebec is also able to block things like oil pipelines and stuff
Can they get the Fed to drop the F35 contract for a European platform?
Heres to hoping! Not if peepee gets in
Glad Canada is sticking to I because they’re sending a message Trump that they’re not going to fuck around with him flipping the on/off switch on tariffs
Exactly – the threat of tariffs – and annexation! – must not only stop, but be refuted forever by a new treaty, signed by the US. Promising both will stop, for good, is the only remedy now.
Trump himself signed the treaty that he now claims is unfair. The US doesn’t have respect for honour, the law, or even reality anymore. They voted in a criminal to be their President, they have no respect for anything except money now.
There is no promise or treaty that will bring this to a conclusion forever.
I think the damage is done. I hope to never see American liquor in stores ever again.
I haven’t been to BCLs recently but I’m really hoping taking American liquor out means they’ve brought a better selection of our local stuff in cause we have some really great breweries and distilleries in BC and it’s hard to find their stuff.
I’m expecting more of that to come later along with more from other provinces.
I’m American I agree. Your country doesn’t deserve our businesses if we have a dictator running our country
We will be happy to come back as soon as America enacts stronger protections to prevent this from happening again and dumps Trump. Nothing wrong the the American people, it’s just one American and one south African than are ruining everything for everyone.
You’re forgetting about the 70 million folks who voted for him. Terrible hateful folks
Add that to the eligible voters who abstained and you have a sizable proportion of the adult population.
Unfortunately, the dumbest ~70 million Americans got together and ruined it for everyone.
Trump is just one guy, but he’s the fart filled turd floating on top of a long stream of raw sewage.
Where necessary or convenient, sure. But alcohol for example has so many other options that I see no reason to give them business ever again. Maybe in a few decades.
What kind of protections though he is in violation of
NAFTA2erm… USMCA that he negotiated himself. Technically what he is doing is illegal, but Republican Congress is letting him do it.I won’t trust America again until after reading now their new constitution protects against citizens united et al.
There’s definitely a lot wrong with a large portion of the American people.
Not enough, it should be 100% and another thing if we have a surplus that we sell, why the fuck is electricity so expensive in Ontario!?
Why is electricity so expensive in Quebec? Because fuck the people that’s why 😑
I don’t pretend to know all the ins and outs of commerce but I do know Canadians are also getting fucked by Canada. Electricity, lumber, construction materials are artificially expensive as fuck. Since covid the price skyrocketed because of price fixing and no-one did shit and they stated high.
Same with food prices, telecom… I love Justin standing up to Trump, but it’s also true that he’s failed protecting the average Canadian. Corporations have run amok and no-one has stood in their way.
It is expensive (the most expensive in North America *) because it is low in fossil fuel generation AND uses a lot of renewables with variable production.
The only way to keep the system stable is to rely on fossil fuel generation outside the jurisdiction to offset the peaks and troughs that happen on short time scales.
Ontario actually pays the bordering states to take away excess energy, and they can do it because their gas fired generation can act in seconds to balance supply and demand.
The power EXPORT from the windmills costs the ratepayers in the province over $1B a year…
Similarly, many of the hydro projects rely on seasonal foreign demand. For example BC produces a lot of extra hydro in summer season, and there is air conditioning demand in California during those months. Its not as if the province can hold that water and use it for heating homes during winter.
(* because of unreliable supplies, large consumers like industry can’t actually operate in the province because they cannot get reliable contracts… This is about 1/2 million jobs. This is a big part of how Ontario became a have-not province, actually. I had multiple clients from Ontario’s generating sector who told me that they “did not want” to enter power contracts with penalties around outages, so if a car plant loses power they can lose millions per hour, and the power companies didn’t want to commit to anything. All things equal, big factories can move to Buffalo NY and pay half the price for Ontario energy… )
Basically, it’s expensive because of the costs of remote jurisdiction dependencies and the lack of true self sufficiency.
I’m certain he’s doing it for the wrong reasons, but it’s nice to see the angry raging conservative attacking a genuine asshole for once.
Honestly he’s even doing it for the right reasons. His country has been economically attacked. Not to respond would just make it worse.
I suspect he’s playing it up for the camera in order to differentiate himself from American conservatives now that they’ve begun turning on Canada. It’s something I imagine we’ll see out of Poilievre as well, because otherwise they’ll quickly become unelectable.
Just remember that they were chums all up until this point, and that’s still damning. Ford supported American conservatives all the way until the leopards turned to eat his face. Yeah, it’s cool that he’s going above and beyond to fight back now, but he still wants Ontario to act like Texas.
Not disagreeing at all. It’s the standard right wing mode of operation, nothing matters until it affects them personally. It should be studied as a developmental disability.
I’m not so sure about Poilievre. Imo he’ll take a more moderate stance against MAGA if any at all. He’s changed his stance recently, similar to Ford, but it felt a bit later and a bit weaker.
Yeah Ford is a raging asshole so he’s loud and combative. PP genuinely just seems like a little bitch puppet so even if he turns on MAGA, I don’t think it will be as loud as this.
