- cross-posted to:
- news@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- news@beehaw.org
Donald Trump has said that Palestinians have “no alternative” but to leave Gaza due to the devastation left by Israel’s war on Hamas, in effect endorsing ethnic cleansing of the territory over the opposition of Palestinians and the neighbouring countries.
Speaking as he prepared to host Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, on Tuesday, Trump repeated the suggestion that Gaza’s population should be relocated to Jordan and Egypt – something both countries have firmly rejected.
Trump claimed Palestinians would “love to leave Gaza”, telling reporters: “I would think that they would be thrilled.”
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The important thing is that everyone should know my hands are clean of this because I didn’t vote for either party.
Geez americans are stupid
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So…. Are both sides still the same? Asking for a friend.
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Put the rhetoric aside, and the answer is yes. Israel stole a lot of land from Palestinians under both Democratic and Republican presidents and kept them under an oppressive apartheid system depriving them of their rights. Both parties vetoed UN resolutions to stop or even condemn the practice.
The Israeli government proposed annexing the West Bank in violation of international law, and while one president said he disagreed with the idea, he said he’d back Israel if they did. The other one said he’d support the idea and back Israel either way. Putting aside the rhetoric or intentions, the action is the same. That’s why Palestinians aren’t cheering when one party wins over another in US elections, because they saw what happened when republicans or democrats won; their situation didn’t change. If you feel otherwise, go visit and talk to them like I did.
Alright. So let’s assume for the moment that you’re right, and both parties would do exactly the same thing regarding Palestine. Just for the sake of argument.
Then they’re still not the same.
Would Kamala have handed entire departments of the U.S. government over to Musk? Would Kamala have signed a bazillion EO’s, taking away people’s rights? Would Kamala send thousands of people to Guantanamo? Would she have allowed ICE to raid schools or hospitals? Would she be systematically erasing transgender people from public life? Would Kamala be scrubbing databases and removing information (CDC for example), or making people waste time to delete certain terms from every database and website because of “woke” or “DEI”? Would Kamala have taken the U.S. out of the WHO? Or the Paris Agreement? Would Kamala be threatening to annex Greenland? Or start trade wars with allies? Or do petty shit like removing the option for regular Americans to file taxes for free online? Or pardon 1500+ violent idiots, at least 4 of whom have already been commiting new (and running from old) crimes? Would she install an antivaxer, who also promotes raw milk, to Health and Human Services? Or abolish the Department of Education?
Would she, would she, would she?
They. are. not. the. same.
And you repeating the same tired bullshit over and over and over will not suddenly make it true. You can try to convince yourself that what you did was the morally right thing, but in your own words: put aside the rhetoric and intentions. The consequences are on you.
But anyway, we both know that Kamala would not be the same regarding Gaza. Never would she have said she wants to “take over Gaza” and “own it” and to turn it into the “Riviera of the Middle East” to create “thousands of jobs.” She would never have proposed the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
Don’t get me wrong. I don’t think she would have done anything to actually help Palestinians, aside from some symbolic stuff or vague threats she will never act on. Somehow Americans seem to just love Israel, whatever horrific shit they pull, they’ll always side with Israel.
But “both sides are the same” is a blatant fucking lie.
This is a disingenuous argument. Republicans and Democrats are not the same EXCEPT ON PALESTINE. You’re beating a strawman.
The rest of it is arguments over rhetoric. Put the comments by Trump aside; in actuality if Netanyahu annexed West Bank or mass deported Gazans, Kamala and Trump would both continue to support Netanyahu financially and militarily even if they had different press releases ranging from concern to praise. Kamala refused to promise to enforce the Leahy Law and Trump isn’t either.
It’s not a strawman, it’s the truth.
Trump is orders of magnitude worse regarding pretty much everything, so even if Kamala is ‘the same’ on Palestine, all the other stuff would still be better with her in stead of Trump. If you truly believe they are the same regarding Palestine, then they basically cancel each other out, right? Then you should look at everything else and it’s quite obvious they are not the same at all.
Look, I don’t want to be the person who needs to boil things down to simple math. But don’t you think that “Fuck Palestine” is better than “Fuck Palestine. And transgender people. And women. And the environment. And the Department of Education. And migrants, and and and”?
Tell me, how is one not worse than the other?
You’re still strawmanning, because it’s no secret that Harris was better than Trump on literally every issue except Palestine. I admitted it above and you gloss over that so you can repeat the same thing as if you’re not listening. Trump is doing all the horrible things he promised he would do. You’re trying to blame me for this even though I wanted Trump to lose too. Peace.
Edit: you’re still ignoring what I said and trying to talk past me. Blame Kamala for deciding she would rather sacrifice votes and risk her own election than say anything against Israel. That’s on her and not the voters. She couldn’t even call for a ceasefire but Trump did. That should tell you how bad Kamala was blowing it. And we’re not quiet, the Palestinians are still suffering but now that the election is over you and the Democratic leaders decided to ignore us because you never cared. I’m not gloating because we knew this would end badly and spent over a year trying to warn the Democrats, meanwhile so many “liberals” are trying to rub it in our faces as if they weren’t the ones who lost.
No, what I am trying to point out is that all the people who kept repeating the “both sides”-bullshit actually HELPED Trump win. Repeat something often enough and idiots will believe it. I have no actual statistics about this, but I wonder, how many people eventually stayed home because they thought both sides are the same and voting wouldn’t matter anyway? How many people just sorta protest-voted Trump because they believed it wouldn’t make a difference anyway? How many people actually switched to third party voting because they initially wanted to, and it wouldn’t make a difference anyway?
Perpetuating this idea that Kamala was the same helped Trump win. It was repeated by certain people ad nauseam how Trump and Kamala were the same. How you shouldn’t vote for democrats because it would be voting for genocide. If they were the same, you’d end up with genocide either way, so then vote for the one who’s better on every other topic, no? But no, that’s not what they said. It was an intentional campaign to make people not vote for Kamala, either by staying home or voting Trump. Every single thread was full of “both sides”-trolls and 99% of those have mysteriously disappeared since Trump won. I mean, it’s logical, their work was done, right?
It was a rhetorical question. The answer is demonstrably no.
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Both sides aren’t exactly the same, but why don’t you want more differences?
Sides could be irrelevant of we replaced First-past-the-post voting with a more representative electoral system. The solution is more democracy, not gleefully telling people they have no choice but to vote for your preference.
Videos on Electoral Reform
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems we can try out.
We know.
But that wasn’t the point, was it?
Yes, they’re doubling-down.
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But kamala was pro israel!!!
The red flag was when Trump learned it was called the gaza strip and started talking about how it was a ‘beautiful’ piece of real estate
Americans making this about Trump vs Kamala is getting really really annoying. I mean, we get it, you are pissed off at each other. We’ve read the same arguments dozens of times already, and at this point it is getting extremely tired. It sucks the oxygen out of every conversation. Is this what the discourse is going to be around Palestine and Israel the next four years?
Trump is full of shit.
There’s no other place for the Palestinians to go.
Egypt and Jordan aren’t going to take Palestinians from Gaza, so all of his talk is just bluster meant to appeal to Israeli right wingers.
Oh just like there is no place for American citizens to go when they’re, “deported.”
Oh what’s that? They don’t give a shit? They’ll just put them in a camp?
I fully believe he’ll put them in camp, or send them to Guantanamo or El Salvador, where they just agreed to house any US deportee or criminal, no matter their nationality. or…they’ll be cleansed.
Americans have no choice but bring Trump to justice STAT.
I’m sure the Palestinians are grateful the Democrats didn’t win.
What would a Democratic win have changed here? Have you already forgotten then 15 previous months where Democrats were sending Israel cash, jets, 2,000lb bombs, arms, and every other tool they needed to continue their genocide?
NO FACTS ALLOWED! ONLY HATE FOR THIRD PARTIES!
I’m half convinced that these are just bots here to drum up infighting as any post mentioning Israel seems to get flooded with these comments, and almost none of the commenters ever respond to replies.
Oh, they respond. Turns into days long flame war if you don’t just stop responding yourself. Still bots afaict though, either that or extremely confident idiots.
Do you think the “days long flame war” might not happen if you didn’t do things like call people idiots?
Yes. I think if liberals didn’t call people who couldn’t bring themselves to vote pro-genocide “idiots” then the flame wars wouldn’t go on.
You’re the one I see calling people idiots right now.
^ This guy IMMEDIATELY starts a flame war with someone else under the same comment. Holy fuck man.
You mean a “flame war” where I never insulted anyone?
Sounds like a pretty one-sided war.
Interesting, also, that you are defending the person who just out-and-out lied about me calling them and other people idiots.
I’m sorry to disappoint you but we are unhappy with both parties. Biden is an absolute devil for allowing this genocide to unfold and providing both weapons and rhetorical and political support. Trump is an absolute devil too, the difference is that he’s absolutely unhinged and says the quiet part out loud.
I feel sorry for the domestical issues this is causing you now and the general chaos this guy creates but for us Palestinians Democrats and Republicans aren’t much different in their support for Zionism.
What evidence do you have that Kamala would have opposed this idea as president? Has she released any recent statement condemning the idea? It’s actually a lot easier for her to do so now than it would have been with her as president. She’s a private citizen now; she need not fear AIPAC campaign dollars. She need not fear offending Biden. She’s not lifting a finger to condemn the idea now, when she faces zero downside in doing so. What makes you think she would have opposed it as president?
Sure, Trump is a lot more vocal in his support of ethnic cleansing than Kamala would have been. But I think Kamala would have simply looked the other way and refused to intervene if Israel attempted it. I see zero indication in her actual behavior that she would have intervened if she was currently president.
If the end result is the same I would certainly rather have non-fascist fucks in office
That’s
Why
You
Exercise
Democratic
Power
To
Get
Rid
Of
All
Of
Them
And that’s why you lost. As long as you’re ready to throw foreigners under the bus you will just be seen as the scum you are.
Biden literally sanctioned them just for settling, Trump reversed it.
Of course this wouldn’t have happened under Kamala. It may have dragged on for a bit, but they delayed the ceasefire until Trump got in, if he lost - they were down bad in an increasingly worsening PR situation and were somewhat tied to that. Now they don’t care, look at them. Probably launch gaza baby NFTs and pocket the profits too just for kicks.
Straight into the west bank as Adelson paid $100m for the privlege, and now celebrating an ethnic clensing. There won’t be a palestine at the end of this term.
How many people did Biden sanction? List the names.
Do you understand why we keep saying everything Biden “did to help” was symbolic and completely worthless? That he did those things while vetoing ceasefires at the UN and sending tens of billions of dollars in bombs for them to commit mass murder with? That this is the behavior of an actual psychopath who’s complicit in genocide?
The sooner you all stop running from reality, the sooner we can start fixing this.
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You seem not to realise the way to "fixing this’ is through a political process and you fuckers are locked in for 4 years of a dude who doesn’t know what shame it’s.
Are you seriously saying people who got bombed for a year that their only option is through a “political process”.
Lmao if I was palestinian I would only want to bomb new york.
The political process enables it.
4 years
that’s very optimistic
Don’t waste your breath, these people don’t even know what the West Bank is
Are you seriously arguing that we didn’t know what Kamala would do on this so Trump, who was very clear about it, was a better alternative?
Are you seriously quoting Ben Shapiro in defense of that ludicrous claim?
Your link didn’t even have anything to do with the claim, but your love of phrases invented by right wing pundits is noted.
But yeah it’s funny you care more about the wording than the content.
It have everything to do with the claim. The last US administration was as bloodthirthy as ever, the only difference to the current one is that this time they actually attack americans.
You feel it’s the end of the world because you were on the good side of the stick beforeward. You are still a morally bankrupted person who were cool with voting for a genocider.
Who tf is Ben Shapiro? I don’t know much about hollywood actors?
I’m going to pretend you actually don’t know who that is to humor you.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/53063090-facts-don-t-care-about-your-feelings
https://x.com/benshapiro/status/695638866993115136?lang=en
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/facts_don't_care_about_your_feelings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Shapiro
I look forward to your next attempt to wriggle out of quoting that monster. I do love that you’re quoting an unapologetic Zionist though.
See your dishonesty? You focus on that shit instead of the content because you know in your heart you are in the wrong.
So you decide to focus on some facebook level shit
Frankly I doubt they give a fuck, this was the outcome for them either way.
Typical first world sheltered westoid.
Palestinians on the ground are being starved, bombed and shot at. You think they give a shit about american elections, idiot? Go outside.
The 40k+ dead under a dem president probably don’t care one way or the other.
But they didn’t promise to stop it, so voting for fascism was the only alternative!
Have more alternatives in the voting booth by passing state level electoral reform! Then people could vote for who they want and still have their vote count against the Republicans.
Who could possibly say no to having more then one chance to beat the Republicans?
Yeah, fair voting is over in the US. You can’t remove fascism at the voting booth.
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Wow it’s almost like this was predictable. Good thing all those liberals who didn’t vote for Harris could not have possibly known Trump would be even worse…
Trump has no authority over the Palestinian people and/or territories.
Evangelicals support this message. Forcing the end times one way or another.
Been a good long while since we’ve had a crusade. Y’all still got yer hats?
