The 2024 US presidential election had been widely characterized as one of the most consequential political contests in recent US history. Although turnout was high for a presidential election – almost matching the levels of 2020 – it is estimated that close to 90 million Americans, roughly 36% of the eligible voting age population, did not vote. This number is greater than the number of people who voted for either Donald Trump or Kamala Harris.
More than a month on from polling day, eligible US voters from across the country as well as other parts of the world got in touch with the Guardian to share why they did not vote.
Scores of people said they had not turned out as they felt their vote would not matter because of the electoral college system, since they lived in a safely blue or red state. This included a number of people who nonetheless had voted in the 2020 and 2016 elections.
While various previous Democratic voters said they had abstained this time due to the Harris campaign’s stance on Israel or for other policy reasons, a number of people in this camp said they would have voted for the vice-president had they lived in a swing state.
It looks like the “they’re both the same” disinformation from the hexbear side of the internet made a pretty strong impression. I’m not going to call it determinative by any means but it put some weight on the scale.
I think attempting to court Never Trump voters and Haley voters was penalty the biggest mistake. They could’ve spent that time and energy trying to win workers, getting their messaging to be more “real person” instead of focus grouped.
Like, the real solution was for Biden not to run for re-election at least, and at most to resign in February 2023 or right after signing the Infrastructure Law or chips.
Its not disinformation to say the obvious, that people are completely dissatisfied with the Democratic Party’s ineptitude and corruption. They blatantly refuse to listen to the will of their voting base. I can also guarantee nowhere near 90 million eligible voters were influenced in any way by hexbear or related sites. Those users were just telling you what you refused to listen to. That the democratic party needs to change its tactics and stop their shady money laundering and pandering to corporate interests and ruthless support of imperialism, or they wont win. But keep blaming some random internet forum, and palestinians, and anybody but the ones who made the actual decisions during the election. Decisions that alienated tens of millions of eligible voters.
The large number of eligible non-voters is primarily a result of those individual’s responses to propaganda. This did not happen by accident. I don’t blame the person that got conned, I blame those running the con job.
What propaganda? Running a shitty candidate that doesn’t represent the interests of working people is not propaganda.
If anything, this derision towards those who refuse to “fall in line” reads like propaganda. It makes sense that people like you would peddle it without even knowing.
Not according to the article. Lots of voters in solid red or blue states didn’t see a point, and who am I to argue. Thanks to gerrymandering, this is often true even for local races. Why vote for a party that supports genocide when your vote is nothing but virtue signaling for a party bereft of virtue?
Local elections matter a lot. If the government shits its pants and nominates total morons who literally have no idea how to perform their job, it falls to state elections and officials to pick up the slack. And if your state elects fucking idiots, your last line of defense are your city officials. And you better pray they are damn good at their job.
You only want the best state officials, and the best only get elected if people vote. Out of 8,000,000 people in our state, 54 decided an election for a massive role during nov 2024. Four of those were from family, so a difference of about a block or three changed the outcome for millions of people. And we are deep blue. 50 votes away from a red candidate.
I’d be the one to argue …… I mean, fine if you really don’t see the point, but the reasoning on half of these people in the article is flawed. Either they were speaking out of ignorance or using excuses for poor citizenship, but when their reason contradicts reality, they should be argued
And even if you’re in a solid red or blue state (like I am), your vote counts. Maybe it won’t change the results but they do pay attention. At the very least we could always say the Democratic candidate would win the popular vote. Not this time.
If there’s ever going to be a chance at reforming the electoral college system, t starts by having the popular vote be consistently different from the electoral vote. From this election, there’s no reason for reform, because both had the same result
You say that yoyur the one to argue, but you made no argument. Why should someone in a solid red or blue state bother to vote for a Democratic presidential candidate that supports genocide? (I’m excluding other races here to keep it simple)
If you really like a candidate, then I can see voting for them even if you know your vote is ultimately irrelevant. But, if you justifiably hate both candidates, one marginally less, a lesser of two evils argument only holds weight when your vote might actually matter.
- There are quite a few more people in the article than the summary - I bet you’d also spot a bunch that give invalid reasons
- If your single issue is the atrocity in Gaza, both support that so it is not a valid decision. If you believe Trumps words, he’d make it worse.
- Your vote always matters, even if it’s the lesser of two evils. Even if it didn’t affect the results this time
You didn’t comment on the article, you responded to my point on a singular common justification.
Trump and Harris both support the genocide making (theoretical) me uncomfortable voting for either. If my vote might matter, then I would hold my nose and vote for the lesser evil. If not, then I’d rather signal my disapproval of both.
Saying that my vote always matters is a nice cliche, but you know perfectly well that in a bunch of states it’s just not true. If my vote put Harris over the top in Illinois, it’s an absolute certainty that she got destroyed nationally. So, even if my vote mattered, it wouldn’t matter that it mattered.
If the only real consequence of my vote is an impotent signal of approval, then not voting is an impotent signal of disapproval. That matters just as much, if not more.
Trump and Harris both support the genocide making (theoretical) me uncomfortable voting for either.
Theoretical you and a bunch of real people just didn’t give a shit about the fact that Trump is going to add domestic genocide to the agenda. Theoretical you was told directly by Trump himself that immigrants were “vermin” and “criminals” and he was going to get them all on the track to deportation on day one. Theoretical you should have taken a few seconds to put two and two together and realize that means concentration camps and anyone with darker skin being suspected.
But even if theoretical you is one of those darker-skinned people, you thought, “well he’s not going to put me in a
concentrationdeportation camp, so I don’t have to worry about that while there’s a genocide happening on the other side of the world that both candidates support.”It’s pretty fucking heartless of theoretical you and all the actual people who didn’t give a flying fuck about anyone but themselves, but liked to pretend they cared by pretending that the one genocide was the only genocide.
You’re ignoring the fact that this person clearly would have voted for Harris if they were in a swing state. Harris did not lose Illinois and this person got to avoid getting blood on their hands via voting for perpetuation of genocide. That sounds far more ethical and rational than just knee jerk voting no matter what.
I’m certainly convinced that you are a Democrat. I can tell because you ignored what I said and gave the rant you wanted to give, completely oblivious to the fact that none if it applies to what I said. You can’t get any more Democratic than that. Scolding voters is not a great strategy.
You have it backwards - not voting because of a single issue is the real virtue signaling. Voting for the lesser of two evils is simply pragmatic.
not voting because of a single issue is the real virtue signaling.
You’re just making assertions, not arguments. You’re also not paying attention because this makes zero sense as a response to my argument.
My entire point was that signaling is all than many voters can do because their vote is irrelevant. Skipping the presidential race is a signal too.
Also, fuck referring to the mass slaughter of civilians as just a “single issue”.
No - fuck handing the government to a criminal and his fascist cronies in order to prove a point. The USA is nearly completely lost to the oligarchs and we played right into their hands. The war in Gaza is diespicable and awful and we just elected a group who will strip away even more of the power we had to try and stop that atrocity and future atrocities.
fuck handing the government to a criminal and his fascist cronies in order to prove a point.
Know why Democrats lose so many damn elections? They don’t know how to fucking listen to what people are saying. That you think this has anything to do with my comment is absolutely bizarre. Neither I, nor the voter I’m talking about cost the Democrats a damn thing.
The USA is nearly completely lost to the oligarchs and we played right into their hands.
No fucking kidding. You’re half way to the truth. Now you just have to embrace the reality that “oligarchs” includes the Clintons, Obamas, Pelosis, Schumers, and (to a lesser degree) Biden’s. Then you will really understand how truly fucked this country is.
we just elected a group who will strip away even more of the power we had
Who’s “we”? The main difference between Republicans and Democrats is that the Republicans have no shame. Democrats feel kind of bad about screwing us for their handlers, so they throw us a bone from time to time. In that dynamic, what’s happening now was inevitable and it was just a matter of when.
We should have overthrown the Democrats in 2020 to create a new dynamic, but we missed our chance. Nobody knows when or if we will get another. The Republicans will never be any better than they are until they have to face an emboldened and left-populist Democratic party. The party we have is light years from being that.
In spite of your rather insulting way of putting things I actually agree with most of what you’re saying, and yet even still voting Kamala was the easiest and most obvious choice voters had to make in decades and somehow still failed.
I didn’t react well to being implicated in “handing the government to a criminal and his fascist cronies in order to prove a point”. Criticism of voters in general gets under my skin because it’s so counter productive.
So wait, if your state wins, the excess votes don’t matter towards the presidential candidate?
Nope, they just go to the popular vote as bragging rights. It’s a stupid system.
i guess it’s similar to our system here in canada, however many ridings the party has dictates their position in the house. its really dumb because some reps might be great people, but the leader is a total dingus. I don’t know what party i am voting for because i have lost faith in all the parties in my county.
U guys need mandatory voting like what we got here in aus. And by mandatory it doesnt mean u have to pick someone (its ur right to spoil ur ballot) it simply means u have to attend a polling booth.
Voting is a duty not a right
We need laws that make it illegal to spread election misinformation. We can’t function as a society with this level of manipulation and outright falsities. Nobody knows what is up or down anymore and this is just the start of what AI and propaganda news media are gonna make possible in the very near future.
Misinformation or misdirection for how to vote or voting practices? The AEC will have you for that.
Misinformation or straight up political lies to convince you to vote for them?
Thats allowed.In Aus politicians can say whatever they want to get you to vote for them/not for the other parties, but they cannot trick you into filling out your vote cads to vote in a way that you didnt intend.
Who decides what is misinformation? The government who is in power and has a vested interest in maintaining power?
We’re able to adjudicate things like libel and slander just fine.
Internationally recognized 3rd party committee with elected members and strict regulations on conflicts of interests would be one option.
Or just stick with the current dumpster fire that could not possibly get any worse. (Well i suppose it could, and will)
To be fair, Australia doesn’t have it much better with misinformation. If a Labor (left-ish) government is in power, you can bet your arse that the papers will have a front page article every week on some screw up, no matter how minor. But when the Liberals (right) get in… crickets.
I would love some third party, but I fear that faith in any body like that is wearing thin. When the UN won’t stand up to its war-mongering members, I don’t think some org telling Trump not to call Biden a pedo is going to achieve much.
Honestly I’m speaking more about rebuilding from the ashes once everything burns. Sort of like how UN, NATO, and the beginnings of the EU were only made possible through extreme circumstances. Hopefully not that extreme, but this country is going to endure turmoil that I don’t think most Americans are ready for.
But maybe if we survive it we’ll be more willing to assess the circumstances that lead us there and take real and drastic action to prevent it from happening again. Or not… But I don’t want to give up hope completely.
Rebuilding from the ashes hey? Isnt that what the communists and the techbros want?
I find it ironic that we started with government havih a stranglhold of mainstream media propagandising everyone and now that we have the internet any anyone can run their propaganda (equallity of free speach) suddenly we now have to worry about propaganda.
Isnt the whole point that in the marketplace of ideas the best ones continue and the worste ones die? Is that not exactly what a platform like lemmy is?
Lemmy is definitely not that. It’s an echo chamber like any other. Ideas that mollify or agree with the zeitgeist are promoted regardless of merit.
Yes, burn like our newly-elected leaders have essentially promised. Are you offended that I’m acknowledging that reality?
And no, the internet won’t let truth ring out to the world. I thought the same when I was a wee lad too. The information superhighway. The end of oppressive government censorship.
The Information Age.
But no, maybe it’s not apparent in your neck of the woods yet, but it is here, and China, and Russia, and countless other backsliding nations: the Internet wasn’t our saviour, and bad ideas don’t naturally die if they are pushed to the masses. They thrive.
Lying trolls are downvoted on lemmy, we don’t give free passes and call everything “free speech” and remove voting buttons so we don’t hurt feelings. But sites like X where there is much larger reach don’t even offer that level of self-regulation. Bad ideas are boosted purposely and relentlessly. News channels have degraded to similar levels under increasingly partisan private ownership.
The Disinformation Age.
But between relentlessly spreading Trump talking points, one thing partisan networks like Fox News and OAN refused to push were claims about rigged voting machines, even when interviewing Trump in person.
Because they got sued. And lost. Badly and expensively.
Because libel has always been illegal in this country. Because we all inherently understand that free speech does not cover spreading blatant lies about people/companies.
But no person/entity pursues this in scale against even the most egregious far-reaching examples. Like when Musk boosts an article to millions claiming the MAGA nutjob who tried to beat Nancy Pelosi’s husband to death was his gay lover. Nothing. When Trump continues to declare the Democrats stole the 2020 election despite it being settled by every court case. Nothing.
Despite having provenly effective tools to keep people honest we’ve let things degrade to the point where nobody even needs to give a second thought as to whether they are expressing an opinion or just slandering/manipulating people because we are afraid that calling out blatant lies is violating “free speech”. Meanwhile a fascist regime abuses that to dismantle our democracy, frequently threatens any press who speak against them, threatens to jail prosecutors who cross them while performing their duties, political opponents who don’t bend to their will. And if that’s the case, then our democracy will burn, and then we’ll see what not having “free speech” really looks like.
There was a time in this country when we had policies like the Fairness Doctrine, upheld by the Supreme Court, enforced by the FCC, where bias in media was actually regulated. Throughout the most prosperous time in this country, from the late 1940s until, like many things that began our rapid decline, Reagan killed it.
Now even leveraging the much weaker tools remaining, in the face an existential threat to our democracy, is seen as some radical idea.
Voting should also be easier.
We should be able to vote with our phones.
Their are problems with that see the multiple tom scott videos on voting.
Is even easier than that. They will mail the ballot to your house months in advance and you can study everything especially all local initiatives and then mail it back at your leisure and people still don’t do that. It’s madness.
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Ranked choice voting would be nice as well. So would having more than two political parties.
Yes Aus has both of those things too.
Pivoting from Biden to Harris guaranteed a Trump victory.
We need a replacement for the democrat party.
Biden had been showing his age for almost a year before he dropped out. That debate was his last chance to show he wasn’t having a massive mental decline, and he failed. There was no way he could have won against Trump after that.
I actually disagree. I think the debate was blown way out of proportion and most people who would’ve voted for him prior would’ve still voted to him after.
It’s important to acknowledge that there are a lot of liars on the internet. It’s easy to make it appear that a bunch of people jumped ship from biden after the debate when you see waves of trolls saying “yeah, I was gonna vote for Biden but not after that debate!” Meanwhile, they were going to vote for Trump all along.
That said, I still don’t think Biden had a great shot at winning because he doesn’t serve the working class or exploit their emotions.
Harris overtook Biden’s polling numbers quite quickly. Also, I find that Biden’s pardoning of the “kids4cash” judge demonstrates some extreme incompetence and tone deafness".
Pivoting to Biden in 2020 is what really sank the party in 2024. Covid won 2020 for Biden, but he thought he was something special so in 2024 he desperately clung onto power until his mental decline was too obvious for even party diehards to deny and then the party scrambled to push through Harris who was forced to adopt that bonehead’s general rhetoric. Biden would’ve lost things even harder. The party really fucked itself with Biden, but I’m sure the party thinks it was all worth it to prevent a Bernie victory.
“The Dems are out of touch on social issues, and have tacked too far to the left to appease a minority of progressives.”
Asshole.
For those who aren’t aware already, “a minority of progressives” means “queer people,” specifically trans people.
This asshole is saying the Dems went too far in trying to make things more equal.
And ignorant - they fell for the conservative talking points too
And us progressives feel ignored by the Dems. Wild
I think there are a lot of progressives, but I think not enough of them live in swing states. I’m one, and I know there are some around in the college crowd. When Michigan went blue trifecta in 2022, I thought the pendulum was swinging, but now it looks like I was wrong.
This guy might be an asshole, but I’m not certain that he’s wrong.
Progressivism is further-left than liberalism.
Did they interview anyone in a swing state at all, or just people who lived in solid states and suggested that if they lived in a swing state they’d have voted?
The only reasons they gave were Israel and gesture vaguely in the direction of other policies.
Did these non-voters not consider the downballot candidates that dems also lost their asses on?
All I got from this is that Democrats, progressives, and Americans are fucking absolutely stupid regardless of education level.
Non voters are almost as dumb as the trump people.
Not really. There’s substantial evidence to indicate that voting does not significantly impact policy.
I think people like you are just grasping at straws to avoid admitting that you put your faith in a failing process.
To further drive your point home-
The evidence isn’t that voting doesn’t affect things. That’s a moronic conclusion. Its that largely things the public wants are vetoed by corporate influence.
The evidence is that voting affects things the corporate class is indifferent to- the easiest thing to point to is that the individual pet projects of candidates have an outsized effect: The invasion of Iraq being the easiest example of where the intention to create a war that hundreds of thousands died was essentially because the guy that won the 2000 election had a fixation.
Not voting takes less energy than voting for someone that doesn’t represent a potential voters interests. That’s not stupid, that’s just taking the path of least resistance.
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Why are you lumping progressives in with them?
Trump won 2 presidencies because democrats actively work against progressive agendas which would actually benefit regular people.
Progressives work against progressive agendas by naming pro-safety policies like “don’t have police respond to mental health patients” as the Fox-news like “defund the police”.
I live in a blue state but that doesn’t mean I’d be justified in believing that I should sit it out. Even if that insane logic about not needing to was valid, there’s other shit on the ballot. And even if my vote for or abstaining against an uncontested incumbent is irrelevant, there’s still ballot measures that need to be understood.
I blame my peers who didn’t vote just as much as my peers who voted for Trump for what is to come.
I’m done giving a shit. We had a chance to stop this, and we sat on our ass.
I blame everyone who hasn’t learned from 2016 that expecting voters to “fall in line” is not a winning strategy.
Unfortunately, you’re showing us that you still haven’t learned from your mistakes so I expect more conservative victories in the future.
Anything to avoid helping out poor people at the expense of the rich, right?
Well, they may have actual made it so about what they fear about their vote “not counting” by putting the fascists in power
The idea that your vote doesn’t count in a strongly red or blue state is total propaganda to get people to not vote and make it so that they don’t have to spend money on campaigning in those places. There are way more people who don’t vote than there are people who voted for either candidate in most places. If everyone voted it could easily overcome any perceived majorities. Especially if city people voted. Problem is that there isnt enough capacity to vote. And cuts to funding that capacity in red states have been a big way to discourage voting in cities. Most people can’t afford to take an entire day off of work to wait in the lines and employers wouldn’t allow it. They’re only required to give 1 hour which is barely enough to get to a poling place and back with no lines. And that isn’t enforced so many don’t even give that hour. And mail in and early voting has been framed by Republicans as unreliable with fake movies and such as propaganda even though it works great in many Blue states.
“What a circus” say eligible voters who didn’t vote in the 2024 election:
The clowns are the ones who fall in line believing that things will improve.
What if we make not voting an official vote and, if it wins, all the parties have to try again with new candidates?
Why not. Maybe I would cap it at some number of elections.
Yeah, we don’t want to have a politician de facto in power because no one else better comes along and/or no one still wants to vote.
I cannot in good conscience vote for the two party system anymore. A trillion dollars went into the coffers of both sides to market “old” to the people. That money wants returns and it often means Bill riders that make billionaires richer at the sacrifice of us.
Until the people realize this and vote other parties instead of Democrat or Republican, I’m out.
So you really don’t find Trump any worse than Harris?
You’re part of the problem.
For future reference, when people stop answering this question it’s because they see it for the distraction that it is.
When that day comes, hopefully you can realize how far behind you are and work extra hard to catch up!
Nah, it’s likely because they’re in denial that not voting against Trump is what helped him get elected.
It’s funny when people think they’re solving the problem by doing nothing. If you think Trump is a problem, then by not voting against him, you are part of the problem.
Unless your district is so overwhelming Democrat that your vote wouldn’t matter, you helped elect Trump.
If you’re serious about ending the terrible two party system (which is really one party and a cult), you’d vote for the one party, the democrats, and crack fucking skulls trying to get ranked choice or similar passed.
First past the post guarantees third parties can never exist, mathematically. Voting third party under first past the post is supporting the two party system.
Not really. You’re delusional if you think supporting establishment democrats will change the two party system.
Both parties exist to distract us from rich people getting richer at our expense, and they’re both very successful.
And you’re delusional if you think not voting will change the two party system. At least by voting for the democrats (in this case), you’d try to prevent a lot of the bad things that Trump promised and that will hurt the less privileged part of the population.
There needs to be a cultural change for change to happen.
Until that cultural shift occurs, voting really is just a waste of time.
Although you would have a point if more people were actually interested in solving problems facing the working class. Too many of them are divided on gridlock issues that exist to distract them from how they’re being exploited.
