A top economist has joined the growing list of China’s elite to have disappeared from public life after criticizing Xi Jinping, according to The Wall Street Journal.
Zhu Hengpeng served as deputy director of the Institute of Economics at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences (CASS) for around a decade.
CASS is a state research think tank that reports directly to China’s cabinet. Chen Daoyin, a former associate professor at Shanghai University of Political Science and Law, described it as a “body to formulate party ideology to support the leadership.”
According to the Journal, the 55-year-old disappeared shortly after remarking on China’s sluggish economy and criticizing Xi’s leadership in a private group on WeChat.
Truly no emperor has ever worn such fine clothes as our beloved Xi. This will absolutely never backfire on them
Hmm, strange? How could that have happened? 🤷♂️
Idk why he assumed the private chat was actually private and not fully monitored.
Lemmy: someone should make billionaires disappear
China: disappears billionaires
Lemmy: this is an outrage!
To be fair, this is Lemmy.world, not the entirety of Lemmy.
Oh for sure, I was just being funny, or at least funny to me. Appears I’m laughing alone as usual
Lemmy: someone should make billionaires disappear
China: disappears billionaires
Lemmy: this is an outrage!
Associate professors, well-known billionaires.
I already see tankies making up some of the most delusional excuses youve ever heard.
The most ridiculous I have heard is that when I pointed out that people had to wait for years to get a car, and bread lines were common, I got told that the scarcity in communist states is by design.
SuRe yOu lIvE iN tHe CoUnTrYsIdE, bUt YoU dOn’T nEeD a CaR. JuSt WaLk oR gEt A bUgGy.
Neither of those things are true, unless you’re extremely poor, in which case why are you trying to buy an extreme luxury like a private car?
Yeah over production of goods is a problem but the ussr was built different. Hungary(where im from) has the second best land for agriculture in all of europe only after ukraine and somehow we still had food rations. Same in ukraine too. They had it even worse.
Ukraine’e famine was likely intentional (or at the very least, it was controlled in a way to only affect that one area that happened to have a burgeoning independence movement).
Yeah ukraine probably was but i still dont understand what kind of brain rot happened in hungary. The ussr (almost) always went easy on us but they decided that a country with excellent agriculture and absolutely no ores and heavy industry should prioritise the latter.
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I think I gave more than enough of the benefit of the doubt in my original comment… I am not an expert or scholar on this, but it would seem as though there is some contention as to whether or not this fits the clarification of “genocide,” but that majority of experts on the subject seem to think it is impossible to deny the intentionality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor_genocide_question
I know you have some need to defend the USSR at all costs, which means ignoring or attempting to explain away the very real, very awful things that they did in the name of Marxism. And I think that’s a shitty thing to do, and it makes leftists who aren’t accelerationist psychopaths look bad.
From all of this, it’s impossible to make the claim that there was any genocidal intent against Ukrainians in the USSR, which in fact saved the Slavic peoples from extermination by the Nazis.
Impossible? Really?
So is it safe to assume that you are a scholar on the subject? Or just another rando on the internet that creates elaborate rationales to quell the cognitive dissonance that comes with believing that a nation (any nation) can do no wrong?
Stalin was a shitstain. Again, not an expert, but based on what I’ve read this morning, “impossible” is not the word I would use.
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when I pointed out that people had to wait for years to get a car, and bread lines were common
Breadlines weren’t common. Breadlines never took place in the USSR between WW2 ending and Perestroika taking place, you’re being ahistorical. Food supply wasn’t secure for all the population in any nation until the green revolution, the USSR being no exception to that.
Regarding waiting for a car, the soviet economy simply didn’t prioritize car manufacturing. The planning didn’t intend for every citizen to have a car in the 70s or 80s, they didn’t intend to make so many cars, so naturally, the people who had the wealth to buy a car, had to wait in waiting lists to get one, it’s not so hard to understand. There are no waiting lists in capitalism because you can segregate 99% of the population from consuming a particular good simply by making it expensive. In socialism, when you don’t have extreme inequality, most people will have access to purchase power for the vast majority of goods you produce. This in turn means that either you manufacture literally from the start one product for every citizen, or there will be waiting lists, it’s really as simple as that.
When you can’t afford a house in capitalism until you’re 35 (if you can ever afford it) you aren’t technically in a waiting list, so even if there’s only new housing for 5% of the population every year, there will be no “waiting list” because simply the prices will go up until only 5% can afford it. In socialism, the same 5% of housing can be afforded by 50% of people, so the way to allocate the goods is a waiting list instead of priority through wealth accumulation.
Do you really fail to understand this?
Access to transport is as important as housing, man. Do you really fail to understand this?
And access to transport was widely available to the overwhelming majority of the population through trains, trams, buses and trolleybuses. Even if your American mind can’t comprehend this fact, owning a car isn’t the ultimate form of mobility, there are alternatives that are arguably better. City design was centered around walkability, density and public transit; metro systems were luxurious and a predicament all out of themselves, and housing being generally obtained through the worker’s union implied that workers usually lived in relative proximity to their workplaces.
The soviet economy was a developing, centrally planned economy, not running under the premise of overproduction and surplus but running under the premise of 5-year plans of production. There was full employment, and almost complete usage of the raw materials extracted and industrial goods produced. Making twice as many cars, implied removing all of that labor and those resources from another sector of the economy. When the premise isn’t to “make money selling cars to rich people”, but to “grant adequate material conditions and welfare to every citizen”, you have to make decisions like that. More cars could have implied, for example, fewer hospital beds or fewer trams, but my point is that making more private cars would have NECESSARILY meant making less of something else of which there’s also no surplus (because the premise of the USSR was the non-existence of surplus). It’s very easy to have surpluses in a capitalist economy when you don’t care about 80% of the population not having access to the goods and services available, when you want everyone to have access it’s a different story.
Man, that all sounds great.
It totally succeeded, right?It turned a backwater pre-capitalist empire where 80% of the population were poor farmers, into the second world power in unprecedentedly quick industrialization and development, defeated the Nazis and prevented their extermination of the Slavic people including Poles and Ukrainians, it guaranteed rights to women and to national minorities like Kazakh, Uzbeki, Georgians, Armenians, it established for the first time in history concepts like socialized healthcare and pensions for every citizen which western Europe later emulated… After being dismantled, of which it’s been 33 years, Russia still hasn’t recovered the GDP per capita of the USSR, so what does that tell you about how well liberalism is working in Russia?
So they’re still around right, because of how well it succeeded? It didn’t completely fail and send the country into famine and despair did it?
… oh
Socialised healthcare and pension first came during Bismarck’s time-- long before communism has come to Russia.
Tell that to people living in the countryside, lol. Even if your wannabe-communist, Western-born, city dwelling, mindset tell you otherwise, those on the country have limited access to transportation and infrastructures that city folks take for granted.
Data says otherwise. Since the end of the soviet block, there’s been a massive migration outwards from the countryside in favour of urban life all over the former socialist republics. Maybe the idea of subsidizing the infrastructure of the countryside despite it not making sense within capitalism wasn’t such a bad idea after all… Please, try to respond to that: why are people flocking from the degrading countryside in post soviet countries
Since the end of the soviet block, there’s been a massive migration outwards from the countryside in favour of urban life all over the former socialist republics.
We’re talking about during communist era, you goal-post moving dong head.
You are literally just did what this comment chain is criticising lol.
Please, try to respond to that: why are people flocking from the degrading countryside in post soviet countries
“I don’t understand why people live in cities.” - Peak Tankie Analysis, apparently
Transport and a personal vehicle are two different things, go to any country outside the US, car ownership is reserved for the upper classes globally.
So I, a resident of Europe, am an upper class for owning a 2004 1.3 litre petrol engine Toyota Yaris.
We started this comment chain poking fun at the most laughable arguments by tankies… And you guys keep on giving.
Yes given you statistically don’t have a reason to own the car as you have well designed cities and functional public transport, the latter almost exclusively due to the socialist movement.
functional public transport, the latter almost exclusively due to the socialist movement.
Dublin is nowhere near a socialist city, nor having a “functional public transport”. Many people in Ireland still live in hinterlands and rural areas with sparse public transport that comes only an hour or so. Ireland is ranked as having one of the worst public transports along with Poland, the latter being a former communist country!
Lol, you give the worst cope I have seen from a tankie. Even tried to gaslight me that I don’t need a car! I wish so I don’t have to spend ludicrous amount of money! I can tell you’re an edgelord Yank who thinks capitalism oppresses you personally, even though you are typing this from a computer or smartphone, developed thanks to capitalism, and while sipping hot cocoa that is not being rationed. And expressing opinions safe and sound protected by the rule of law of wherever you are.
Tankies keep on giving the most absurd responses and cracks me up. Thanks for giving me a quick chuckle!
If you are so enamoured by communism, go to Cuba, China or North Korea and let’s see if you won’t return begging for your passport back!
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Free West Taiwan! Hopefully, the CCP built dump will implode.
I’d prefer to redirect them to the north. Let them invade the fertile and undeveloped lands russia has neglected, and get back Yongmingcheng. It beats fighting every other country in the pacific - aside from North Korea.
No one will care if China invades Russia. Do eet!
Not the billionaires I love those guys!
Criticizing Xi in a WeChat group is Jack Ma levels of smart.
Oh bother…
Your next mission, should you choose to accept it, is to determine whether this image is racist, or not.
Oh, do they fall out of windows in China too?
I think Russia patented that technique.
No they just get sent to Lake Laogai for…reeducation.
There is no war in Ba Sing SE after all…
Is that another word for disintegration?
More like re-integration by way of re-education. Forced re-education.
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Soviet Union
Its an Avatar the Last Airbender reference… =__=
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It sure predates lake Laogai
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Yeah sometimes things don’t happen until they do, shocking
It’s fine until it’s not. China is sort of notorious for such grey lines that can shift overnight. And if you are influential, you may just fall victims to the “kill the chicken to scare the monkeys” practice
If you think the Chinese economy is bad now, wait 15 years. No amount of sending economists to the gulag will hide this disaster.
Edit: tankie downvotes are like nectar of the gods to me. Your precious CCP will wither like a plant in the desert.
Who thinks Chinese economy is bad now??
Lots of people, especially the Chinese. The sentiment about work, investment, economic prospects, consumption are all quite bad. The central bank is cutting rates. Just today the government dipped their toes into the helicopter money game. The only thing keeping the party going is exports
especially the Chinese
Source?
The sentiment about work, investment, economic prospects, consumption are all quite bad
Source?
https://tradingeconomics.com/china/consumer-confidence https://www.china-briefing.com/news/chinas-august-2024-economy-record-export-growth-amid-domestic-challenges/ https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/09/09/europes-luxury-goods-market-set-to-feel-the-pinch-as-china-growth-weakens https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/analysis-chinas-monetary-volleys-miss-key-threat-to-economic-growth/ar-AA1r9V9Q
Plus anecdotal stories from people I know that traveled to China in the past few months.
Basically, the post-COVID recovery was already slower than expected. Then the property sector all but halted. People are stuck with gig work and temporary contracts.
Why do you imagine the government is doling out money for the first time if everything is peachy?
ROFL, the consumer index that your first source portrays, is still twice that of Canada at 86 points Vs 45, and Germany’s consumer index is -15 points… It’s on par with Australia and Spain, so what does that tell you?
The rest aren’t really indicators of Chinese people seeing the economy struggling aren’t they? They’re just western reports predicting the imminent collapse of the Chinese economy… as they’ve been doing for the past 20 years
I’m not going to do your homework for you. Suffice is to say China is still an emerging market and all indicators aside from exports are unusually low for the kind of economy China is. I don’t know what kind of point you’re trying to make because you seem to be skirting the issue. None of the pieces I linked proclaim China is about to collapse, only pointing out the challenges. Again: what the hell is your point?
92 upvotes would suggest a lot of people.
But everything you could say about China rings just as true in Europe, in Japan and Korea, in India, in Russia…
Global populations are heading for a heavy sag, but westerners only know how to heckle the Evil Foreigners.
Funny because I’m European, and the GDP per capita levels of most EU countries are at 2008 levels.
As for a population pyramid, China will face the same problem as other countries as you say, possibly more magnified.
EU countries are filling up with war and climate refugees. And… 2008 is one hell of a year to pick as your benchmark.
Yeah, blame the immigrants. Very .world thing to do lol. Taking Germany, for example, according to Wikipedia, 0.17% population growth per year between 2010 and 2020 doesn’t seem too great for me, compared to China’s yearly >4% GDP growth for example they’d reduce per-capita growths by an insignificant amount. I’m European myself, and I can tell you that the lack of GDP per capita growth between 2008 and 2024 isn’t due to population reasons either, and I’m guessing it’s the same for the bigger EU economies like France,Italy and Spain but feel free to correct me otherwise.
2008 as my benchmark is exactly my point: the European economy has only now economically recovered from the effects of its own self-imposed policy of austerity and deprivation of worker rights and welfare, without having restored said rights or welfare to pre-2008 levels. And we see countries like the UK under “labor” administration falling to the same policy again as soon as they enter the government. In the meanwhile, without falling into such policy (although without many significant victories for welfare and labor AFAIK), China has grown its per-capita GDP threefold since 2008.
So no, I don’t think “Chinese economy looks bad”, I wish my European country’s economy would mimic a fraction of the Chinese growth actually
I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted that much
What is this supposed to show?
This is what a healthy population looks like:
Even then, it isn’t healthy, just healthier. The USA is still going to going to experience economic issues of a growing elderly population, it just won’t be as bad.
This is the new normal for highly developed economies. The best they can hope for is a 1 to 1 replacement of their population. We’re not likely to see another baby boom occur.
We’re not going to see a typical population pyramid any more. Because that means a large infant death rate and either war, disasters or a massive suicide epidemic cutting away the young adult population to get the pyramid shape.
Given that the amount of habitable land will decrease causing mass migrations, you don’t need a 1 to 1 ratio to maintain a population size.
it just won’t be as bad.
glances at Ferguson
glances at Columbia
glances at the NYC subway
How bad are we talking?
I don’t see how any of that relates to a potential demographic crisis
The US have the benefit of essentially limitless immigration that they can adjust at will. On the other hand, China’s leadership, being Han supremacist, is not receptive to immigration at all.
Immigration definitely helps, especially compared to China. I’m just noting that there will still be some decrease in the ratio of retired workers to current workers.
The US have the benefit of essentially limitless immigration
Except that even in the Americas the population is declining. There is a limit to it. The US can outlast many other countries because of immigration but it too has to face the same problem as everyone else.
Not really. They are the #1 immigration destination. If the US runs out of potential immigrants that means every other country is far worse off. This game is like the old joke about outrunning a bear: you don’t need to run faster than the bear — you only need to be faster than the guy next to you.
Have you… have you seen how Americans have been talking about the border? Especially this election cycle? I don’t know if would characterize either party’s constituencies as “receptive”.
It’s all talk. Corpos crave dirt cheap desperate immigrant workers and will make sure neither party messes this up.
According to the United Nations, in 2019, the United States, Germany, and Saudi Arabia had the largest number of immigrants of any country
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_immigrant_and_emigrant_population
Was there supposed to be some argument or statement attached to this source, or…?
You realize there’s more to immigration than the border between Mexico and the US, right?
I know they ignore it, but you don’t have to follow along with them.
50 million immigrants in the US, and that data is 5 years old. Germany comes in second with 13 million. It’s not even close. I don’t see how a demographic crisis could happen, even if they hypothetically cut immigration in half
The US have the benefit of essentially limitless immigration
glances at US immigration policy
Does it?
China’s leadership, being Han supremacist, is not receptive to immigration at all.
Wit drier than a lint trap.
Does it?
People still pay upwards of $10,000 US to get smuggled into the country that they will only work in for 4 years as basic farm and factory workers in a house of 20 people.
The world is a mess and America is the gold mines of california with no gold in it. But a lot of people are getting rich selling immigrants the shovels.
People still pay upwards of $10,000 US to get smuggled into the country that they will only work in for 4 years as basic farm and factory workers in a house of 20 people.
You’re just describing human trafficking. This is modern slavery. Might as well brag about all the Africans who moved here in the 18th and 19th centuries.
The world is a mess and America is the gold mines of california
Who can forget the huge influx of East Asian immigrants flooding into the California gold mines to be worked to death in the mines? Another excellent example of American prosperity.
Coming from one of the foremost resident tankies here, that’s a glowing compliment. Thank you.
thicc
Basically, yes. The sides are nearly parallel, which is great. Compare with China’s, which forms a steep V. Once GenX hits retirement age they are completely screwed. The CCP’s recent push for “traditional family values” and increased birth rates is no coincidence.
The birthing rates are only dropping, in 15 years all of those people will be to old to work but there are not nearly enough to replace them.
Thank you for the clarification.
I’ve already been banned from Hexbear. Bunch of assclowns over there.
Edit: and now lemmygrad
Why do you think Israel needs a fucking iron dome? Bunch of virgin clowns in here.
This you?
Oh the cockroaches have showed up
Arbitrary bans from overly sensitive mods? Straight to Jail.
Made a comment about tankies in lemmy getting mad over some news about China getting hit with influence ops by the US. Believe it or not, ban.
It’s okay man, it takes me a few seconds to scroll through all my bans. It’s funny because all these pro China dweebs are living in the USA. Can’t even commit to the bit and just sit there all day posting anti USA or western stuff. They are obnoxious.
They are privileged children sheltered from reality by mommy and daddy’s money.
That’s easy mode, since Rule 2 is basically “don’t write a fact about China.”
Well damn, I’ll try harder next time.
“Everyone keeps banning me, I’m surrounded by assholes”
Hmm…
They are cosplay commie instances, and they all live in western countries especially the USA.
I browse by all and don’t usually check what instance I’m commenting in. They will swarm like fire ants if you don’t chirp like them. They also have very thin skin so I don’t think they would make good comrades if they ever reach their Utopia.
I won’t even get into the Hexbear because that’s too easy, but look at the mods for USA at .ml
they all live in western countries
I was told they were all Wumao from China and bots from Russia.
Found the tankie!
Still waiting
Enjoy the 996 becoming 7-10-7
What gives workers even less time to be consumers, making China even more dependant on overseas markets.
What does this mean?
996 is a term the Chinese use to describe working 9am to 9pm, 6 days a week.
996 = working from 9am to 9pm, 6 days a week, work schedule practiced currently in many companies in China
7-10-7 = I’m guessing 7am to 10pm, 7 days a week because of worker shortage?
Old enough to remember people talking about a 4 day work week and complaining about how many bullshit jobs our economy is swamped with.
But I guess we actually do have a sever labor shortage and all that surplus manufacturing jettisoned out into the global market simply isn’t enough.
The glorious economy is always in the shitter it seems.
Sure, China will certainly collapse, as they have said since the 1990s.
wtf is that chart?? Why does it look like that :0
What a stark example of Mao’s legacy (look at the dip between ages 60 and 65).
Western media talking about “disappearances” is always the funniest thing to me. If somebody just goes like a week without appearing on TV, they can say they “disappeared,” and the audience will immediately assume that they’re in some black site with a bag over their head. If they show up the next week and tell everyone they’re fine, then they have plausible deniability since they never actually said anything bad happened to them. Of course, then you’ve got your audience primed to believe that something’s up and can write another headline like, “Questions remain regarding the disappearance of so-and-so.” Once you get a name trending, it doesn’t matter what the facts are.
I remember coming under fire from an irl friend over the “disappearance” of tennis player Peng Shuai… until she reappeared, and the International Olympic Committee confirmed that she was perfectly fine. The only evidence that anything bad had happened to her was the lack of a public appearance, but then, after making public appearances, the story didn’t die, instead each new appearance simply gave the media more to talk about, keeping it in the public consciousness and always insisting that “questions remain.”
Of course, that’s not even mentioning all the times the media doesn’t just claim a “disappearance” but just outright lies about these things. If Business Insider can’t even muster up a “detained,” it’s pretty safe to assume it doesn’t mean anything. And of course, if someone says anything critical of the government, then they are immediately absolved of any and all suspicion of having committed actual crimes - absolutely zero investigation into the charges of corruption is needed for everyone to conclude with 100% certainty that they’re trumped up.
I can’t wait to see how many downvotes I can get lmao.
People in China say something the government doesn’t like and aren’t heard from at all for a while, you really think they can say that something bad happened to them when they reappear?
We’re really entering into conspiracy theory territory here. Imagine if I monitored every public figure in the US and whenever one of them didn’t appear in public for a while, I automatically assumed that they had been abducted by the NSA, and when they later showed up and were fine, I concluded that the only reason they weren’t talking about it was because the NSA was holding their family hostage or something. Do you need any actual evidence to make conclusions like that, and is there any form of evidence that could possibly falsify such conclusions?
It’s impossible to account for ever minute of every person’s life so it’s always theoretically possible that any time someone doesn’t have an alibi, it means that they’re being held in detention where they are also sworn to secrecy about being held in detention - but just because it’s theoretically possible doesn’t make it a reasonable assumption.
This isn’t people being unaccounted for for a few minutes. It’s people who normally doesn’t do things for sensationalism saying something controversial and then going missing, and this happening in a pattern in one country in particular.
Yes by definition it’s a conspiracy theory, but these people aren’t providing a detailed accounting of the time they were away. That should rightly raise questions, and international media is absolutely ethically in the right in wondering publicly about their wellbeing.
Is it actually that it happens in one country in particular, or is it that nobody makes a note of it when it happens in other countries because someone not being in the public eye for a bit is normal and routine, and it’s only because China is treated with suspicion that it’s considered noteworthy?
Of course, I can’t even imagine the shitstorm that would happen if another country tried to demand that public figures in the US provide, not only testimony saying they were fine, but a detailed account of any time they were out of the public eye, to confirm that they weren’t being interrogated by the NSA and then forced to lie about it. It’s absurd, as you admit, it’s a conspiracy theory. There are so many actual real problems that have actual real evidence that I don’t understand why anyone would care about something that’s grounded on pure conjecture and circumstantial evidence.
Probably because most other countries aren’t under the justified suspicion that China is for directly repressing speech it doesn’t like. It’s a conspiracy theory but it’s not at all absurd, it is plainly the most reasonable explanation for what is happening.
When was the last time this was asked about anyone in Saudi Arabia? Or Israel? Or…
When was the last time this was asked about anyone in Saudi Arabia?
All the fucking time. Holy shit, do you just not pay attention to international news? The Saudis are constantly fucking with internal dissidents.
Or Israel?
Israel doesn’t kill journalists in secret. They do it in the open and claim it was an accident. There’s a lot of reporting on it (ironically?)
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What i find interesting is that youre so quick to criticise “the west” but when its china there is always a way out. Where you fail is you are extremely one sided while on lemmy most people i see are pretty critical of the US, china and every other entity that does a bad thing. If china does something bad, you try to explain why its actually good but when the eu wants to do some shitty thing, lemmy actually wants to change that instead of just mindlessly criticising or endorsing it.
I’m happy to criticize China on its actual faults, but I’m not going to jump to conclusions based on inadequate or inaccurate information. The standard for evidence is much lower when it comes to criticizing China, most of the media we consume comes from Western sources, and people just don’t have firsthand experience and will believe just about anything, and so I may push back more simply because there is more bullshit to push back on.
You accuse me of “mindlessly endorsing” everything they do, but there is stuff I criticize and when I don’t, I explain my reasons quite thoughtfully. What I don’t do is mindlessly criticize everything they do (or are accused of doing, or assumed to be doing, without evidence) which is pretty much the standard that people expect from me. There’s countless accounts on here that only ever criticize China and do so without providing explanations or justifications for it. They don’t even come up with any original quips, it’s all just lazily repeating “haha Winnie the Pooh” to each other with zero thought or analysis. Generally, these people could only name one or two events from Chinese history, and have no interest whatsoever in learning about or understanding their perspective, which makes having an intelligent discussion on the subject impossible.
You seem much more reasonable than most ml users and while i dont agree with you on a lot of things, i dont think downvoting evrything you disagree with is a good idea and you even responded which is more than i expected. But yeah both “sides” are guilty of this.
I try to take such claims seriously and I think we all should, just in case there’s any truth to them and someone is actually kidnapped. Of course knowing that they may not have been. Flagging certain individuals as potentially at risk isn’t wrong per se. But I get your point about how it is a relatively easy claim to make and exploitable politically. Still, I think it should be taken seriously, just in case.
That’s perfectly fine, I just think it’s important to treat claims critically, and to understand what it actually means to say that someone has “disappeared” in this context - it doesn’t mean that their friends or family have reported them missing, it doesn’t mean that a reporter has checked their house and found it abandoned, it just means that they haven’t been on TV, and it requires a lot of assumptions on the part of the audience to conclude from that that they’ve been kidnapped or extrajudicially detained.
You make a fair point. Not all “disappearances” are made equal. Unfortunately some people on here (and many out there) love taking sides, and once they have, they find it difficult to process anything with a certain critical distance. Maybe it didn’t help that your original comment sounded very dismissive, as if any such claims in Western media are more likely to be BS than not. We don’t know that. At least I don’t know that. One could of course collect data on that, could be an interesting little project. I’m sure there are folks tracking disappearances and disappearance claims.
Guess Winnie-the-Pooh: Blood and Honey was closer to the real story than the originals by Milne…
I’ll have the Pooh Pooh platter
I said no salt!
