They do this all the time. Maybe Biden should call their bluff, execute his powers as Commander in Chief, and order the National Guard in Texas to turn on State Police.
I am not a conservative, I’m not a liberal either I’m just some dude but seriously are we all just cool with swaths of illegal immigrants coming in all the time? Like, literally nothing to stop them just giving them a hand up over the water? It just doesn’t seem like a good long term strategy, does it? I mean we can’t just walk into Canada if we feel like it either. Idk man Texas has a lot of issues but them saying they are enforcing their border because the feds just let undocumented people walk right in doesn’t seem that wild for real. If someone kept breaking into your house and the police did jack shit about it (which they really would) what would you do?
I know people love a simple answer that makes sense on the surface, but you’ve oversimplified this issue to the point of just being categorically wrong.
A better analogy would be “someone came banging on my door saying that someone was going to kill them and I felt obligated to let them in. Now too many people are doing it and I wanted to live alone so I’m making them pick fruit for $2/hr and now my income depends on these people but I don’t want them here, what do I do?”
Obviously stupid as well but it touches on some of the nuances that the “breaking into my house” analogy doesn’t.
“I am not a conservative”, “swaths of illegal immigrants”
Are you sure you know what political leanings are? That is a false conservative talking point you are repeating. It’s not illegal to cross a border.
I am positive I know my political leanings. It is true, there are a vast amount of immigrants crossing illegally across our border. If you cross illegally, it is by definition illegal. Which I do understand some laws are unjust but you shouldn’t blame the state when the feds won’t do anything to help them enforce what they say is illegal.
It’s a conservative position to limit immigration. Do you feel you support more progressive policies than conservative overall? What verifiable harm has come from increased immigration? People deserve a safe place to live, whether they were born in Mexico or Texas, we have more than enough resources in the US to help people that immigrate here. I don’t see how your metaphor is accurate. The US isn’t a house or private property.
I don’t think you understand, there is no illegal way to cross the border. If someone tells you that there is people crossing the border illegally, they are doing a lie or have bought into false conservative talking points, you shouldn’t believe that. Now, there are undocumented immigrants, and that is something we could talk about. But illegal immigrants is not a thing, it’s like wizards in the Harry Potter universe. Fun to think about, but not real.
These “I’m not a conservative” are a special bunch. Same as the classic “I’m not a racist, but…”.
I don’t think it is a fair comparison to say breaking into someone’s house is equivalent to claiming asylum.
I also personally just don’t understand the issue with increased immigration - it gives us a larger labor pool, and counteracts our declining population.
There’s a proper way to claim asylum, and it’s not swimming across the Rio Grande at midnight.
Yeah it just requires money, time and connections. People fleeing countries have all of those things right?
“If I’m poor the rules shouldn’t apply.”
When the rules are “don’t be poor” then yeah, it might be a little unfair.
If you think the rules are unfair, work to change them. Every person walking across the border is giving a middle finger to the qualified LEGAL immigrants waiting YEARS to be naturalized, many of them with financial challenges of their own.
“i had to go through miserable bullshit so you have to too” is not doing what you think its doing
removed by mod
Right, better that they die in their own country rather than seek asylum elsewhere and “give the middle finger” to those with more money, connections and time than they have.
Dying is bad but being disrespectful of unfair rules? Well nothing is worse than that.
Maybe we should allow border free flow.
Given the current policies of the Biden administration, my understanding is that most immigrants are actually going through the legal process of claiming asylum.
Channel 5 did a little mini documentary about it that I personally enjoyed: https://youtu.be/2dQ4-VNaG3s
I fail to see how that legal process involves almost drowning in a river or becoming entangled in razor wire. We are talking about separate groups of people: some requesting asylum the LEGAL way and others taking a chance and YOLOing across the border.
Except that walking across the border and surrendering to the border patrol IS the legal way.
So then why are people swimming across rivers and getting ensnared in razor wire, vs legally crossing at designated entry points? If they intend to surrender to border patrol, why not enter the US where the border patrol is present instead of sneaking across? In Tijuana, one can stand in line, get cleared by customs and enter the country. None of that has anything to do with razor wire.
Because the entry points are closed.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1158
Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States (whether or not at a designated port of arrival and including an alien who is brought to the United States after having been interdicted in international or United States waters), irrespective of such alien’s status, may apply for asylum in accordance with this section or, where applicable, section 1225(b) of this title.
They are actually following the legal process
So, are they recalling their Congressional delegations?
The inadequacy complex is strong with Texas.
Maybe getting a bigger set of truck nuts would help them self-sooth their short man syndrome?
Like the guy in another thread on here that stated that Texas is bigger than Europe.
Europe’s area is slightly bigger than Canada let alone puny Texas.
Well, Texas is bigger than Europe in the “who has the most idiot assholes” category.
Texas immediately becomes the newest Narco-State, gets it’s own CIA coup and Democrats refuse to make them a state again, forcing them to be a territory.
Some country bumpkin is going to show up with a KIA coupe and all his buddies will shout “yeehaw” at their victory.
Its* own CIA.
Why is it that the crazy morons always have a louder voice than anyone else?
Maybe we should let them try, huh? I give it maybe a month before all their net-taker money runs out and their dipshit Republican policies turn the whole place into Mad fuckin’ Max.
I would love to see how fast they fold without federal money if I didn’t also know who it’d hurt the most
I guess Texas doesn’t understand they don’t have an army, but the US government already has a massive base right in the center of Texas.
They can secede and then ask the US and Mexico for aid when they collapse, but there won’t be a civil war. Idiots.
Did Texas get rid of their national guard? I thought they were just there.
Each state has a National Guard unit, but it’s still part of the US Army. That’s what it’s called a National Guard.
So you’re not aware that while National Guard can be called for active service they are actually under the control of the governor?
Of course, but they aren’t a Texas army. The President can just decide to move them out or use them as needed.
The US government is paying those soldiers.
They actually do have an army. Most states have a state guard or reserves/militia.
Edit: I did research and the state guards are branches of the national guard placed under the control of the state. Meaning that they are in the U.S. army, as the other user states.
Those are US Army soldiers, paid by the US government. Control of the state reserves is only delegated to the Governor, because that makes sense. The individual governors can freely send them to areas which are in need. But the President can take back control at any time. If the governor of Texas decided to take the reserves under his direction and attack the US, they’d be placed right back under US control.
They are not a “Texas” army. They are part of the US Army delegated to Texas.
I have researched it and I was mistaken. What you are saying is correct.
Really makes this whole thing extra strange, given that many states have sent their reserves to Texas. Political theater.
Yeah, heading into the 2018 midterm Trump tried to create a border crisis. It didn’t work. This is their election trick, create a lot of smoke, rile up the base, think that it will rile everyone else up.
I mean let’s look at the core aspect of Abbott’s argument from his statement.
That is why the Framers included both Article IV, § 4, which promises that the federal government “shall protect each [State] against invasion,” and Article I, § 10, Clause 3, which acknowledges “the States’ sovereign interest in protecting their borders.” Arizona v. United States, 567 U.S. 387, 419 (2012) (Scalia, J., dissenting).
Right out the gate, Abbott is based his ideology on a dissenting opinion. That is, the NON-MAJORITY finding of the court in Arizona v. United States. In fact, Arizona v. United States indicated explicitly that enforcement of the border was the sole privilege of the Federal Government. So right out the gate Abbott is literally using a case that ruled the opposite of the determination he indicated in his statement.
Additionally, Art. I, § 10, C. 3 of the Constitution.
No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.
Historically this was used for Native American invasions of property and so the key factor in cases around this is “will not admit of delay”. Texas is not burning. No historical read of this section of the Constitution supports immigrants coming into the Nation. By definition as we have it thus far, Texas is not being invaded. Additionally, Scalia’s conceptualization of this section, no other Justice has joined in on that understanding. So outside of the opinion of a single justice, a Governor just saying “I’m being invaded! I get to invalidate federal law!” nobody else has ever indicated this is the way it should be read.
With Art. I, § 10, C. 3, you can say “I’m being invaded!” But you still have to follow the law. You can fight invaders and maintain the law of this land, they are not mutually exclusive things, no matter how hard Abbott or Scalia wishes it to be otherwise.
And finally, the Art. IV, § 4 argument.
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.
Again, no court would uphold that Texas is being invaded. But Abbott is adamant about Biden “isn’t enforcing…” And the thing is, Governors do not get to legally make that determination. What laws are and are not being enforced by a President is the sole prerogative of the Executive branch. (Wayte v. United States)
The Governor of Texas cannot just unilaterally make a determination that the President isn’t XYZing. That’s what the court system is for and distinctly the thing that Abbott has lost. If the Governor felt that the President was not holding up their end, they have every right under Article III of the Constitution to take it up there. Which that’s what Abbott did and lost. Also, why when he was questioned if his defiance would be upheld by SCOTUS, he merely indicated that he felt the 5th Circuit would uphold it. Meaning, he knows that SCOTUS will overturn any determination the Governor is making on this front.
And with all of that, his core argument has nothing. It’s easy to pick apart. Now here’s the thing, Gov. Abbott is not stupid in the legal sense. He’s quite aware that his determination is unfounded. He’s banking on stirring the pot enough to make either Biden do something so that can be plastered all over the place or getting the issue fresh into his base’s minds.
And like I said, this is exactly what they did 2018 and lost. Abbott is just trying to get under everyone’s skin and he seems determined to spend as much of Texan taxpayers’ money in litigation to do that one thing.
Great analysis. I genuinely think Abbott is also trying to make as much work available to conservative lawyers as possible, like a jobs program for assholes.
Again, no court would uphold that Texas is being invaded.
Which is good because if we classify border-crossing migrants as “invaders” then not only does that mean really bad things for them, it means Abbott was funneling invaders further inside our borders by paying to bus them to denver or fly them to chicago or whatever else.
It’s pretty clear he didn’t think the treasonous implications of this particular initiative through very well.
I do hope to come across more of your commentary analysis on Lemmy! Thanks for the informative insights.
Texas is a big place but I don’t know if it has the capabilities support itself as a sovereign country and have a full scale war against 49 other states. That being said secession is a bumper sticker cause for most who support it not to diminish the threat but I think they are obviously overplaying their hand.
it doesn’t, but that doesn’t mean idiots won’t try to make it happen anyway.
I suspect it wouldn’t be 49 other states- I’d bet that there’s several other equally stupid states that would happily join them. Definitely Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and maybe Florida would join in. But I bet if Biden tried to call their bluff and pull all govt funding and military bases from those states they would freak out and change their tunes fast.
They wouldn’t freak out right away, they probably think their militias are more capable than the US military (what with ‘woke officials’ and trans rights n such), so they would be fine, until someone like Mexico (or even just a cartel from Mexico) decided to take back historically Mexican land.
Oh shit, my dude, that would go all the way up tornado alley to Canada.
Apparently red states’ governors support Abbot’s move, so…
I’m ready to beat the conservatives in Civil War 2, tbh. It sounds easier to deal with them now than watch the slow decline of the USA.
A second civil war would look nothing like the last one.
It’d look more like the Troubles in Ireland; with lots of terrorist attacks rather than well-defined battles. It would be neighbor-on-neighbor violence. A bunch of small paramilitaries running around ganking everyone else.
Republicans overestimate their own size. They’re not the 46.8% of Voters who voted Trump in 2020, they are a fraction of the 22.09% of total Americans. They will be crushed by the overwhelming nonpartisan majority in the case of open warfare.
While my heart sinks for the effected families, there has never been an easier time to uproot your life and leave Texas, Florida, or anywhere else. I myself have been planning to leave North Dakota for several years now.
Guess the point I’m trying to make is that any civil war that breaks out in the us is going to be a fucking bloodbath. There won’t be territory, or battle lines to get on the right side of (or just away from). There won’t be any where for civilians to go. Every city will be engulfed in insanity.
Nobody wins. It doesn’t matter who comes out in control, there will be no winners. Only death, destruction.
It’ll be chaos, and then it’ll be martial law. When there are no clean sides, no obvious distinction or front lines, entire cities/regions become internment camps. Everyone is suspect. Anyone could be one of them.
Scenes like this;
Persons with last names starting from CH to DO have the next 2 hours to do their weekly shopping, anyone without correct identification, displayed on their chest, is subject to arrest and indefinite imprisonment. Resistance will not be tolerated, try, defy and it’ll be the last time. Don’t be a hero, citizen, c’mon, keep the line moving. No talking to those not in your party. Don’t wander off the yellow line or the autosentries will turn you into a hazy pink mist. BRRRRAPP
If America balkanizes (cuz if we split, it won’t be into 2 it’ll be into several) there will never be peace in North America in any of our lifetimes. Those who are chomping the bit for it might do well to remember that of all the multipronged wars in history I don’t think there’s been a single one that was won by any of the original starting factions. So whomever is around at the beginning, that side, all those sides, have already lost. We just don’t know what terror will be birthed from their corpses that finally takes over.
Exactly.
But I also don’t think they have the resources to maintain martial law everywhere.
Nobody wins
War monguls will. And they’re American, too!
I realize I’m the asshole for saying this, but we will have culled weakness from the herd by engaging with the traitors in combat, and the suffering there as a result very well may be lower than the suffering incurred by letting them continue their insanity for decades to come before they inevitably die off due to generational progress.
The real question is basically whether the pain is endured by us all or only their less fortunate targets. I am not afraid to share the suffering.
Wow, you actually said that.
Imagine if more people stood up against the Nazis in the same manner. Do you think the Germans’ slow cascade into madness was a better alternative than war in the streets?
Because the Nazis totally just started with a civil war. If that’s what had happened, Nazis Germany would have collapsed in on itself, and not been able to do what they did. a hypothetical second US civil war is not even close to the same thing.
Gonna be hard to get that FEMA money Texas needs every few years once they secede.
Set Texas adrift and you’ll see some real invaders from the south.
That would be the ‘finding out’ part.
And the US would have no obligation to help unless they decide to sign a defence treaty.
It’s like brexit all over again, but even more stupid.
Oh man, the cartels would love to hit that from behind.
Unfortunately I think we have too much federal infrastructure in Texas to make it that simple.
NASA is one thing that comes to mind. (Houston would have a pretty big problem then)
There’s a US mint in DFW, Houston refines the majority of oil for the US, I think there’s some US gold stored in a fort north of Austin, not to mention all the corporations that have HQs like Lockheed Martin. Not sure if all the corporations would be able to get out quickly enough or if those would be tx companies needing an international trade agreement.
I was looking at Northrop Grumman and Lockheed Martin on Google maps earlier today, coincidentally. While the headquarters seem to be in Texas I was mostly seeing blips for plants in southern New England. I don’t know how accurate that is but I suspect that the plants are more crucial than any office or HQ.
There are multiple other mints. Gold is produced and stored in plenty of other areas, and won’t be a tenth as important as preppers feel it will be. There are plenty of refineries in California to support the West Coast, and there being less demand for petroleum products would work well with there being less oil supplied from Texas. Corporations are international already.
Let them go have their own stu-topia with their own energy grid.
Yes corporations are international, but they don’t have an international trade agreement with the US right now. The military would not take kindly to one of its biggest suppliers suddenly finding itself in a foreign country.
Remove all military assets and troops from Texas.
and remove all military spending. Texas is a huge benificiary here - tons and tons of aerospace like Lockheed and Bell Textron, rockets on the coast, enormous amounts of defense spending happens here.
I checked the reaction in r/conservative, and everyone there was supporting Texas on this smh
To the surprise of exactly nobody.
When weren’t they enemies of the USA?
Party of law and order /s
They’re all in there talking about upholding the constitution when the SCOTUS ruled against them, defending America while accomplishing nothing with their silly razorwire which has had no impact on immigration, calling the US Government Traitors as they themselves actively commit treason.
There is no end to the Irony. They even parrot the line about standing with Abbot even though Abbot can’t hardly stand from his wheelchair.
Aside from the jab on Abbot’s mobility i agree.
Then again, you pay me 18k per month I’ll sit in a wheelchair too.
They do realize that without Texas, the United States will probably never have Republican leadership again for decades at least, right? So if they don’t live in Texas, they are kind of screwing themselves.
If Texas wants to leave they can do it over the United States of America’s dead body.
They’ll see that and say, “Bet.”
