let’s gooo
Now if they’d just vote….
A lot of us aren’t old enough to vote yet
Ok you get a pass 😉
Golly I remember once on Reddit saying that people should vote and by howdy did a whole bunch of angry people vote me down double digits because, you see, apparently voting doesn’t matter and I made people feel sad.
To be fair, I’ve voted my whole adult life and don’t really feel like anything is better off because of it. I will continue to vote for the lesser evil, but I also completely understand why people are frustrated with this system. We just keep voting between a turd sandwich and a giant douche, and it gets old. So it doesn’t surprise me when people feel like voting is useless, it feels like it’s hopeless by design. We need a new system.
People get mad when they have a problem and you provide a solution they can feasibly take part in. As soon as they have any agency/capability to take responsibility suddenly they are unable to.
My mother in law famously stopped seeing a psychologist when they told her that she has the power to fix all of the problems in her life. She then spent the next 15 years being an unbearable cunt until her second-eldest had a child and suddenly she doesn’t want to fuck up the grand kids as much as she fucked up her own children.
To their credit, they are: https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2022/12/12/near-record-high-numbers-of-young-people-voted-during-the-midterms-signaling-a-possible-shift/
1 out of 4 for a midterm election is nothing to sneeze at.
Specifically, an estimated 27% of eligible voters in that age group turned out to the polls in 2022
In 2018, approximately 31% of young people voted
It’s not that many, and it’s actually down from the last midterm election. Fucking vote.
They do vote…they’re in areas where their vote doesn’t count.
Please get out and vote.
I really hope that they do.
Because I am worried about the camps.
We’re all worried about the camps.
I’m LGBTQ…AND republican. Although that means something vastly different where I live, haha (I live in a kingdom).
Vive la république!
The only cool kind of Republicans
In my republic (France), Republicans suck too. It looks like you’re right: cool Republicans only exist in monarchies.
Isn’t everyone in The France republican? Do you have monarchist French that want to resurrect King Louis? Or do they want to crown Macarone the new King?
P.S. I had an almond croissant earlier today and took a picture of some frozen snails.
Almost everyone is Republican, but we also have a Republican Party, which isn’t more Republican than the others, this name makes zero sense. It’s the successor of the party of De Gaulle, but I’m quite sure De Gaulle wouldn’t like what this party became.
There are a few monarchist movements, generally far-right-leaning, like the French Action. But they are very small and divided (there are two candidates for the throne, and different kinds of monarchies), so nobody takes them seriously.
PS: croissants are good; snails aren’t.
De Gaulle
He really hated the English - which is a bit rich considering we sheltered him during the war. He was proven right on the EU though. We did nothing but cause trouble while in, then left. Precisely what he predicted. :(
PS: croissants are good; snails aren’t.
A civilised French! A rare, but welcome, breed. I forgive you for Patay, Formigny, and Castillon. Joan of Arc was obviously suffering the Snail Madness and didn’t realise English rule was superior.
I don’t think De Gaulle hated the English, but he surely despised them. He despised almost everyone though, and maybe he despised the French more than anyone else, calling us “calves” or mocking our love for cheese, for example. Yeah, he was an asshole.
They should employ you at the Paris tourist board. You’re a decent French and you know facts! Paris needs that. 👍
Had me in the first half not gonna lie
Our time will come
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And if they don’t vote, it won’t matter.
Sadly some of them are republican
Not sure why you’re being downvoted - you’re 100% correct. People voting against their own demographic is nothing new.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews
Yes, but political engagement can’t revolve around voting.
It’s shit. You have to navigate a beurocracy and don’t even always have choices down the ballot. And when you do, you often have no idea who the candidates are beyond some half baked Facebook page. It’s also a huge burnout pit. Put months of stress into a binary outcome you can barely control. And even that is if you’re engaged in canvassing and etc, otherwise it’s just a chore.
Youth need to be mobilized in long term action projects. Something like Encode Justice for example, where they make civic engagement a part of their daily life, is far superior. It’s also harder, but that comes with doing something actually impactful.
Things can change, though. California voted for an open primary in 1996 (think that was the year) and now you can participate in either one. Prior to that, you could only vote in the primary for the party you registered with.
Open primaries invite strategic voters to sabotage the party they want to lose rather than supporting the candidate they want to win.
Of course you can still do that with closed primaries—you just have to register as the party you want to vote for in the primaries, ignoring your own preferences. Nothing forces you to vote for your registered party in the general election. It’s slightly more involved this way since you would need to change your registration more frequently, and commit to it earlier, but that isn’t much of a hurdle.
But both sides are the same or my vote is worthless or it’s too hard to vote or something
That said, election day not being a federal holiday is a crime.
Which, while a good idea, still screws over the working class that don’t get federal holidays off. In fact in many industries they are mandatory work days because of the increased business.
State and federal opt-out mail ballots for all I say.
In Australia it’s always on a Saturday, and it’s compulsory to vote. Works OK for us.
In Canada, we get mail in voting, advanced voting and voting stations are everywhere. I’ve never had to wait more than 5 mins to vote and the closet voting station is a 2 min drive from my house. They’re also open late and most employers give us time off to vote. Not sure if there’s a law for that but voting here is easy af yet some people still don’t bother.
that sounds like a way for democracy to actually represent the will of the public. DEFINITELY not what they want in the U.S.
In Finland it’s on Sunday. And with I think two weeks to vote beforehand.
Yeah, those are all actually true.
if you think both parties are the same you’re living in a fkn alternate reality. Only one part is seeking to end democracy in America and set up reeducation camps
Sarcasm
It is genuinely too difficult in some places thanks to voter suppression.
So help them vote. Volunteer with efforts to get out the youth vote. Push for universal mail in voting where you are, or at least early voting. Help get politicians and initiatives on the ballot that they actually care about.
Shaming and complaining about the demographic you want to reach accomplishes nothing.
I hope things will change, but we still have abysmal turnout. TX started allowing early voting over 40 years ago and we still struggle to get people to the polls. Early voting is a span of 2 weeks, where in the 1st week, polls are required to be open for at least 9 hours and can be open from 6 AM to 10 PM on the weekday and shortened hours on the weekend, and in the 2nd week, polls are required to be open at least 12 hours a day and typically have the same hours as election day. Yet we still have virtually no lines through all early voting and a massive line on election day.
It doesn’t help that the news only bangs the final day of voting into peoples’ heads.
Many Republicans vote exactly on election day because they are being fed lies that early voting and mail in voting are riddled with fraud.
That explains a few people, but doesn’t explain why everyone else hasn’t been utilizing the early voting system for the 40 years prior to 2020. TX cities are pretty blue and their early voting lines are always very short.
Shame ✍️ demographics ✍️ for ✍️ helpful ✍️ advice
My state’s on it!
It doesn’t work. Every swiss citizen older than 18 receives them at home. The younger generation doesn’t vote.
I’m older now and the older I’m the more people of my age around me vote. It’s depressing. I try each time to make the younger vote but it’s not working. And, I didn’t miss one. Next one is the 3rd March. I will try again.
Don’t take me wrong if I convince if just one younger person, it’s a win.
You got this 🫡
Obligatory-
If you are a legal resident of Wisconsin, and are not currently serving time or on paper, you can register to vote entirely online if you want, and you can request absentee ballots for all elections for the entire year (no reason needed, but necessary annual renewal, it’s my New Year’s resolution every year because it’s so easy to accomplish. entirely free of charge ofc.).
Just go to www.myvote.wi.gov to register, request absentee ballots, check your registration, or find your polling place. If you have any difficulty with your registration, you can find your local rep and contact them directly.
Please vote. Please vote for your own wellbeing. Please.
Edits to fix link redirect per convo below
This is why I love Washington. Everyone has an OPT OUT absentee ballot. Everyone gets one at your address. Every election. All the time. The same address that’s on your ID. It’s amazing.
Hi, your link (the actual link, not the link text) is to https://www.reddit.comwww.myvote.wi.gov .
So you went somewhere different than I did… weird…
For me it comes up https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/www.myvote.wi.gov
I typed it in though… the link and link text are the same, so that shouldn’t happen.
i see what happened.
you typed
[www.myvote.wi.gov](www.myvote.wi.gov)in your comment’s source. for it to register as a URL you have to put https before the link inside the parentheses:[www.myvote.wi.gov](https://www.myvote.wi.gov).for me it goes to https://pawb.social/post/www.myvote.wi.gov (my instance, error: couldnt_find_post)in your comment’s source it is written [www.myvote.wi.gov](www.myvote.wi.gov), which shouldn’t behave like this. looks like a lemmy bug maybe?i have two theories:1. the bug is related to typing a link directly, as in pasting a link in the comment, like example.com (i typed it without brackets for a name or parentheses for a URL)or2. it’s related to links explicitly starting with www, such as what you linked.for testing purposes:you can report lemmy issues at https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues. i searched on there to see if it was already reported but couldn’t find anything, though if you want to i’d recommend searching.Hey thanks, I changed it and that did the trick.
I guess it makes sense that would be a thing. I’m so used to everything accommodating for that lack, though lol
I’ve been helping my fellow zoomers by figuring out what their townships/town wards/city districts are, then what their local/state/federal legislative/executive/judicial districts are, then who’s running for what position, then where to vote and (primaries and generals).
Information is power!
no u
Not buying it. Probably just scared of the well deserved ridicule received if they identify as Republican. We’ll see how the vote goes.
Shy Tory factor. It hasn’t usually been common to see in US polling.
This is actually quite interesting. For me, answering a questionaire like this is frustrating because the true answer is much more nuanced than what the given options are and I feel like I know what they’re trying to ask but my honest answer is going to give them confusing results from which they’re going to pull incorrect conclusions from.
For example: Politically I’m slightly right from centre but I’ve always voted left. I’m also non-straight but I don’t identify as LGBTQ (I literally had to look up the correct way to type that)
non-straight but I don’t identify as LGBTQ
This is pretty much what the “Q” part is. Queer in this context refers to not conforming to standard roles in some way or another.
Weird that your response got downvoted, but that seems to be how things go on here. Weird, but not surprising. If you’re slightly right from center, you sound like a centrist Dem.
It sounds like you’re over-complicating your own life.
Why do you think that?
I’ll say it, because I ran out of fucks a long time ago and I couldn’t give a fuck about down votes:
You are a moron.
And that’s fine. Someone has to prop up the bottom half of the intellectual spectrum. The problem is self awareness.
Forest Gump knew he was a moron. Most morons don’t.
It sounds complicated lol.
You’re being quite vague.
Because people here are smart enough to not comment on whether someone has an authentic identity, what that identity is, what it should be, etc. You do you. It does also sound a bit like you’ve decided that you don’t fit other categories just because but you may not also know in which ways or why.
Sorry
I’m also non-straight but I don’t identify as LGBTQ (I literally had to look up the correct way to type that)
If you identify as non-straight then you’re identifying as LGBTQ. Don’t get hung up on the specific letters in the acronym, that sort of changes from year to year. You can pretty much sum it up to literally mean anything that isn’t straight which is what you said you are.
If you identify as non-straight then you’re identifying as LGBTQ.
No I don’t. That’s the point; if this is asked on a questionaire my answer will be no. It’s irrelevant if other people want to label me like that - I don’t.
It’s irrelevant if other people want to label me like that
Correct. You get to label yourself and no person on Earth has a right to comment on that. You’re choosing not to and it’s unclear why or to what end.
…it’s unclear why or to what end.
The abbreviation in question has negative cannotations in my mind and thus I don’t want to be accociated with it. I prefer the term sexual minority if I absolutely need to be put into a category.
has negative cannotations in my mind
I feel like you may have just demonstrated the importance of the study being reported here. The people responding affirmatively do not carry that burden.
As a piece of advice: this is a “you” thing. Whatever you need to do to get there, learn to be ok with yourself and stop worrying about what others think of you.
My point is that people answer these kind of questionaires differently. Just like I may not check a box others might think I should have, some other person checks a box others might think they shouldn’t have. Just because one thinks of themselves as native american for example doesn’t mean others do. That nearly 30% LGBTQ rate indicates, to me atleast, that something like this is going on here aswell.
I don’t consider myself to be especially worried about what other people think of me. I don’t know what makes you feel like I do.
You labeled yourself non-straight. That falls under LGBTQ.
Edit: I’m not trying to force you to use the acronym, I’m just saying “non-straight” most definitely falls under it.
You’re dubious because why? Do you think there were only two options? Do you identify as republican or LGBTQ?
What they’re saying is it’s more embarrassing for a teen to come out as republican than LGBTQ+ (obviously depends on the area)
Republicans know this, and push culture war issues to drive certain voters out of their states/area.
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The West has fallen /s
A storm is coming…
Call Gerard Butler quick!
The similarities between sexual freedom and religious freedom is striking. Sexual attraction and identification is important to be free and open, just like religious freedom. Free from persecution, equal rights and oppertunities.
But I don’t like when people forcefully spread their belief system and their values to others. Let it be organic, don’t try to force change. People are free to pursue their lifestyle and i’m free to pursue mine. In today’s society, it feels like the ownerclass are running pro lgbtq advertisements. Is it another divide and conquer technique? The whole thing feels forced…
Please don’t downvote just because it’s an unpopular opinion, rather lets discuss the issue 👍
Except one thing is real and the other is not. There is no god, but there is definitely sexual attraction in forms beyond heterosexuality and gender expressions outside the heteronormative form. So there is a difference between spreading misinformation in form of religion or quite useful information on gender and sex.
I’m not religious and I’m not lgbtq either, but I will fight for either’s right and freedom to practise their beliefs. I’d be more careful in calling one side “misinformation”, when you have just spent decades being on the receiving end of that cruelty.
Telling people that your make believe fantasy story is true, is fundamental different from acknowledging existence or expression of non heterosexual sex and non heteronormative gender expression/identity. Especially since people tent to create moral norms for others, based on the particular fantasy story they happen to believe in.
Saying God isn’t real is kinda like saying santa claus isn’t real, and to those kids that desperately needs a santa, Santa is real to them, and that’s all that matters…
“people tent to create moral norms for others” As long as those norms are not forcefully applied, it’s fine.
“based on the particular fantasy story they happen to believe in.” I would hope you were more self aware because not too long ago lgbtq’s were dismissed as “fantasy” or some kind of medical diagnose. Just please be more considerate before throwing those types of accusations around.
Saying God isn’t real is kinda like saying santa claus isn’t real, and to those kids that desperately needs a santa, Santa is real to them, and that’s all that matters…
So, what you are saying is - we should treat religious people like children? Not sure, that is what you intended - but for sure an interesting example to chose, to make your point. Also at no point did I argue for people not be able to practice their religion, in fact I have no problems with peoples personal spirituality as long as it does not negatively effect people around them.
“people tent to create moral norms for others” As long as those norms are not forcefully applied, it’s fine.
But the forceful part is kind of what organized religion tends to be all about. Religious majorities tend to demand conformism even from people not following their religion.
“based on the particular fantasy story they happen to believe in.” I would hope you were more self aware because not too long ago lgbtq’s were dismissed as “fantasy” or some kind of medical diagnose. Just please be more considerate before throwing those types of accusations around.
Except LGBTQ people are real, you can go outside and talk to them, they will talk back at you. If god is talking back at you, I have bad news for you my friend. What are we even talking about?
Are we not all just children stuck in adult bodies. /end cringe philosophy. I wrote it in this context because I hoped it would be easier to relate to for someone, clearly, not religious. Religious freedom is not a blanket “do whatever you like” free-card. I believe RF is covered under Freedom of Expression, at least in most European Contries. It’s limited to not infringe on other people’s freedom of expression.
Your next paragraph is also best answered with; their freedom of expression is limited to not infringe on other people’s freedom of expression. And this is what makes this so hard.
“Except LGBTQ people are real, you can go outside and talk to them, they will talk back at you.”
Again, I know lgbtq is real, if god is real or not doesn’t matter, that’s not relevant, the actions of those convinced he is real, those actions are real.
“What are we even talking about” I was trying to have a discussion about that, in my view sexual freedom and religious freedom are very similar. They are both the fight for freedom of extression.
And my other thought (not so popular thought, so you better not air it) was that recently this fight for lgbtq feels inorganically amplified by legacy media. It makes me suspicious about if there might be a divide and conquer agenda behind it.
It’s fun to discuss with you, you seem like you argue in good faith. Managed to slip in a semi-dad joke too.
Are we not all just children stuck in adult bodies. /end cringe philosophy.
You got me there. Can’t ague with that - and my point was unnecessary provokative. Sorry.
if god is real or not doesn’t matter, that’s not relevant, the actions of those convinced he is real, those actions are real.
It kind of matters a lot, since people justify their action by the fact that god is real and therefore their morals are absolute.
I was trying to have a discussion about that, in my view sexual freedom and religious freedom are very similar. They are both the fight for freedom of extression.
I think, I can see your argument - maybe on a philosophical level I even agree with you. But I just realize it’s something I have to think about for my self for some time.
And my other thought (not so popular thought, so you better not air it) was that recently this fight for lgbtq feels inorganically amplified by legacy media. It makes me suspicious about if there might be a divide and conquer agenda behind it.
I don’t consume legacy media, so I can’t really argue on that one.
t’s fun to discuss with you, you seem like you argue in good faith. Managed to slip in a semi-dad joke too.
Dang, I don’t even have kids, it’s just getting old.
The way I see it, Religion and Gender are both social constructs that exist to make life easier for people who need it (or, at least that’s what the original purpose of religion was).
There’s no definite, set-in-stone proof for either being true (as far as I know, do correct me if I’m wrong), but as long as they make someone’s life better without making others’ life worse, I see no issue with either existing.
It’s not really a fair comparison to say “God doesn’t exist, LGBTQ people do”, when one is a concept and the other is people. Religious people do exist, and the concept of “Gender” is just as vague and undefined as the one for “God”.
The reason why LGBTQ people are (rightfully) seen better than religious people is that they don’t force people to “join” them and don’t treat different people as the scum of the earth.
To be clear I’m not the one bringing up comparison of religion and LGBTQ. I’m pointing out the absurdity of that comparison.
and the concept of “Gender” is just as vague and undefined as the one for “God”.
Except you can study one empirically and not the other. Want to take a guess wich one?
Religious people will easily tell you God can be empirically studied. The creation of the world, the forming of consciousness, and so on. They’re not proof in any way but imo it’s not much far off from “some (but not all) trans people have different brain waves than cis people” (at least that’s the most common thing I’ve heard about “objectivity” in gender).
To me the comparison was kinda fair, if not for the underlying conspiracy theory that “the ownerclass” is trying to turn people gay for some reason.
“To me the comparison was kinda fair, if not for the underlying conspiracy theory that “the ownerclass” is trying to turn people gay for some reason.”
I might be a poor word smith, I don’t believe that this is a conspiracy to turn people gay, I feel like it’s more of an over-arching agenda to amplify a divisive issue.
It is a very important message, but since legacy media is so enveloped in this, makes me suspicious, and by extension suspisious about legacy media owners’ agenda. Hence my suspicion of the owner class, or even better, the exploitation class.
Religious people will easily tell you God can be empirically studied.
But that does not make it true. And by the way the whole point of believing is that you don’t need actual proof - if you have evidence you don’t need to believe, you know.
The creation of the world, the forming of consciousness,
Yes and when we study those empirical we come op with rather different explanations than offered by religion. The “God of Gaps” is getting smaller.
They’re not proof in any way but imo it’s not much far off from “some (but not all) trans people have different brain waves than cis people” (at least that’s the most common thing I’ve heard about “objectivity” in gender).
But again. I can go outside an meet trans people. You can have different explanation to why there is such phenomenon as trans people and come up with different explanations and mechanisms. You can’t do quite the same thing with god. But sure you are welcome to propose an empirical experiment on nature of god.
And by the way the whole point of believing is that you don’t need actual proof - if you have evidence you don’t need to believe, you know.
Isn’t a major talking point in LGBTQ culture also that asking for “proof” of being trans is rude and you only have to “feel” like one to be one? I’m not that informed in the culture but I know there’s a subset of “Transmedicalists” that are usually shunned because of that.
Yes and when we study those empirical we come op with rather different explanations than offered by religion. The “God of Gaps” is getting smaller.
Afaik we still didn’t find any possible explanation for either that doesn’t just bring up more questions. It got smaller for a long time but we’re at a point where we’re probably not ever going further unless someone does the biggest scientific breakthrough of history.
But again. I can go outside an meet trans people. You can have different explanation to why there is such phenomenon as trans people and come up with different explanations and mechanisms. You can’t do quite the same thing with god. But sure you are welcome to propose an empirical experiment on nature of god.
Again, you can meet with trans people just like you can meet with religious people. And both have (usually) no objective, biological way to discern them from cis people or atheists. If you want to go further, there’s also people who claim they talked with God or whatever. It’s all claims, as far as I know, on both sides. You can’t empirically test well something that, by definition, can’t have an objective tell.
Isn’t a major talking point in LGBTQ culture also that asking for “proof” of being trans is rude and you only have to “feel” like one to be one? I’m not that informed in the culture but I know there’s a subset of “Transmedicalists” that are usually shunned because of that.
I’m talking about religion. Also asking people to prove their gender in general is considered rude. If someone says she is a women, you don’t normally ask them to prove it - would kind of border on sexual harassment(joke). Not sure why it would be different for trans folk.
Afaik we still didn’t find any possible explanation for either that doesn’t just bring up more questions. It got smaller for a long time but we’re at a point where we’re probably not ever going further unless someone does the biggest scientific breakthrough of history.
What do you mean, we have hypothesis for both. Again the difference is we can actually study those things, we can’t study god in the same sense.
Again, you can meet with trans people just like you can meet with religious people.
You are keep switching between god an religious people. Wich is a bit annoying and makes the conversation less fun. You were saying:
Religious people will easily tell you God can be empirically studied. The creation of the world, the forming of consciousness, and so on. They’re not proof in any way but imo it’s not much far off from “some (but not all) trans people have different brain waves than cis people” (at least that’s the most common thing I’ve heard about “objectivity” in gender).
So comparing existence of god and trans people. So which one is it?
To be clear I’m not doubting that Religions people exists, I doubt that god exists in the capacity they claim it to exist. As a psychological ans sociological construct god is real - and I might join the first religion than will come down with such definition of god. But that is far from what religions claim to be.
Please don’t downvote just because it’s an unpopular opinion, rather lets discuss the issue 👍
No. 👎
It is kinda counter productive to downvote a comment of someone that tries to engange in a meaningful conversation. Divisive topics should be more discussed, not less, and definately not discouraged/punished…
“oh, poor me, I used hateful rhetoric and people won’t ENGAGE with me”
I try to better myself and my understanding of lgbtq. What was hateful, so I can perhaps word myself in a better way? Thank you.
I’m not going to debate whether gay people should be allowed to express themselves.
I posted this two hours before your comment “I’m not religious and I’m not lgbtq either, but I will fight for either’s right and freedom to practise their beliefs.” Freedom of Expression is the most precious thing we have. I cannot understate how important this is. I feel like you might have misunderstood me, I should have tried to word myself better in my original, first post. I don’t want to edit it, let history be a judge. It’s difficult to thread lightly in this subject. It’s a subject close to the heart of many people.
it feels like the ownerclass are running pro lgbtq advertisements
Corporations make inclusive advertisement when it makes them more money than not doing so. You can easily see the same movie studios making fairly different advertisement in EU/USA than in China/Saudi Arabia. This is virtue signalling, but I’m fine with it, because when good values get virtue signalled in public, the opposite values are less likely to transmit. They don’t have good intentions, but good results come out of it.
There are also less common cases where they purposefully make over the top stunts because it will make far right nutjobs angry, which they count as free advertisement.
“This is virtue signalling, but I’m fine with it, because when good values get virtue signalled in public, the opposite values are less likely to transmit. They don’t have good intentions, but good results come out of it.”
US Supreme Court has upheld the ban on religious ads, and my initial comparison between religion and sexual freedom runs deeper. They are very comparable. Both have been persecuted heavily up in history. A big difference is what I posted in a different sub-thread
“Even though I’m an atheist or agnostic, not really sure. Religion is different because they are on both the giving and the recieving end of persecution.They use religion as a base for their persecution of other people of a different religion (or sexual identification, sexual attraction, even something as trivial as dress code). Expressions that are clearly protected within the law.”
Religion within ads are not protected by freedom of expression (acc. to US SC), and a sexual expression as an ad has not, to my knowledge, been challenged in the courts (yet). Correct me if I’m wrong.
“There are also less common cases where they purposefully make over the top stunts because it will make far right nutjobs angry, which they count as free advertisement.”
It’s like burning books or flags, it’s a protected form of expression. Even though these actions are very divisive. I will fight for even these, and the ones you put as examples’ right to express themselves. It’s very much like Noam Chomsky says: “If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all.”
so you like creating (and when corps create) echo-chambers when they fit the concepts that you want? with all respect possible to give, your logic is therefore not sound
Talking in broad strokes all about balancing “freedom of identity/attraction” and “religious freedom” makes for a decent-sounding empathetic viewpoint prioritizing individual liberty. I understand where this is coming from, I don’t disagree myself, but then again who would?
And that’s why we have to get into the specifics of “forcefully spreading their belief system and values to others” because that’s what happens to queer people as status quo. We’re legally and socially discriminated out of a lot of aspects of public life and often carry deep trauma from wrath and abuse incurred on the way. Conversion therapy is still legal in many places for fucks sake! The hell is that if not forcefully spreading a belief system?
Often times, the term this is justified under is “freedom of religion” - but really it’s freedom to control and abuse others due to religious justification. The two freedoms are not equatable, therefore the balanced center between is not a neutral position.
Corporate pride advertising is super forced and very few queer people are actually on board with it. The term is “rainbow capitalism” and it’s pretty derisive. Unfortunately that’s all of what some people know of us - they don’t know us as people, as communities, just like them; they know us as a rainbow flag on a TV screen and as a Tucker/LWT/[whoever’s got opinions about us today] talk show segment, and so that’s all they think we are. Nobody likes this, queer people least of all.
Yep. I stopped going to Pride because of the corporate nonsense. I like that children are there with rainbow flags, but the rest is unhelpful.
I went just once in Capitol Hill, Seattle. If I was more of an extroverted type it probably could have been cool - it was a concert venue featuring a bunch of queer artists, and a lot of tents for queer community organizations - mutual aid, healthcare, counseling, etc. There’s definitely a way to make Pride useful for the community. But it’s really just bringing together a community that always existed regardless - and imo no reason to wait til June to start getting involved and organized 😁
Presuming Seattle based on response, but know there are other places named Capitol Hill.
The only Pride worth going to is the small parade that happens on like a Thursday before the big one. It’s really the event of the locals and those who have been part of the community. For whatever reason, the City of Seattle will no longer permit the big parade through the actual gay neighborhood, pushing it through downtown and on to Seattle Center instead. I am fairly certain that this is specifically done for capitalist reasons so they have more room for people to sell overpriced food.
In any case, never go to the BIG event, go to the smaller neighborhood one in whichever city you’re in.
“Conversion therapy is still legal in many places for fucks sake!” This is a blatant form of persecution and everyone shoult protest and shut shit down until it’s fixed. Conversion therapy is, in my book, not protected by religious freedom, at all.
This remids me about the meme, two bomb-planes D and R, were one just bombs, and the other bombs too, but with rainbow colors, blm and every other “current” coopted flag.
You take an awful coropration and put lipstick on it to make it better…
I try to take a few steps back and, to me, it looks like the exploitation-class has coopted this issue, enlarging it, to make it more divisive than it actually is. I would think most people have a “can we not just live our lives in peace” attitude, whether you are lgbtq, straight, religious or atheist.
I point conversion therapy out as an egregious example of persecution, but there’s plenty more, through a variety of avenues. Many fly under the radar as things that sound less intense - schools notifying parents if kids go by a nickname or change how they present is one that’s come up a lot lately.
From experience - lots of people thankfully have a “live our lives in peace” attitude - but unfortunately even a minority of bigots can make our lives pretty difficult and divisive. Especially if they’re allowed to do so by other people who don’t agree themselves, but also don’t fight it when they see it.
And so sure, the message has been coopted for mainstream audiences by corporations running ads like “[sterile uplifting music] at CitiBank, we think you’re people! [stock rainbow flags waving]” If you know anyone who’s queer, you know there’s real difficulty that comes with it, but also a resilient community takes care of each other the best they can. Pride ads are how most people know of us, but they’re not even close to representing us or the stakes we face. They’re pretty much entirely irrelevant to us - we never asked for them, and they certainly don’t help.
I cannot help but make the comparison to religion, yet again. Even though I’m an atheist or agnostic, not really sure. Religion is different because they are on both the giving and the recieving end of persecution.They use religion as a base for their persecution of other people of a different religion (or sexual identification, sexual attraction, even something as trivial as dress code). Expressions that are clearly protected within the law. Whenever freedom of expression is challenged, there should be huge crowds to support the FoE, and I think that is also relevant in context of your next paragraph too.
Regarding your last paragraph. Corporations hammer the message for the same reason they hammer any ad, it works. If ads didn’t work, it wouldn’t be a billion dollar industry. My point is, every corporation hammering the “we are inclusive” message feels inorganic. I might confuse this feeling with it just being “in” or trendy atm.
because it’s an unpopular opinion
This is propaganda and misinformation, not an unpopular opinion.
Please read other parts of this thread (at least my posts). I try to argue in good faith and better understand this complex issue close to the heart of so many.
In today’s society, it feels like the ownerclass are running pro lgbtq advertisements.
This phenomenon is commonly referred to as pinkwashing and in the case of lgbtq people specifically, rainbow washing.
This article covers a lot of examples:
https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/07/what-is-pinkwashing/
Pinkwashing has become a common way for brands to co-opt the LGBTQ movement and benefit from its positive image.
To be clear, pinkwashing is not a good thing. It benefits brands and not LGBTQ+ people.
The similarities between sexual freedom and religious freedom is striking…But I don’t like when people forcefully spread their belief system and their values to others.
This is a false equivalence. My existence as a trans woman is not a belief or a value. I’m a real person.
👋 =|
I’m not sure how to be more organic than asserting I exist in an internet post. And I’ll happily force change by voting blue.
I’ve read a bit about pinkwashing, I might mash the corporations and people too much together. I will try my best to keep them separate, when I’m talking about them.
“But I don’t like when people forcefully spread their belief system and their values to others.”
My quote here, is probably better to use corporations, not people. Sorry.
“The similarities between sexual freedom and religious freedom is striking…” Your answer being: “This is a false equivalence. My existence as a trans woman is not a belief or a value.”
I’m not saying they are equal, but the similarities are striking, and might run deeper than at first glance. My quotes from different sub threads:
“I cannot help but make the comparison to religion, yet again. Even though I’m an atheist or agnostic, not really sure. Religion is different because they are on both the giving and the recieving end of persecution.They use religion as a base for their persecution of other people of a different religion (or sexual identification, sexual attraction, even something as trivial as dress code). Expressions that are clearly protected within the law. Whenever freedom of expression is challenged, there should be huge crowds to support the FoE”
“I’m not sure how to be more organic than asserting I exist in an internet post.”
Also from previous, same, sub-thread. “Corporations hammer the message for the same reason they hammer any ad, it works. If ads didn’t work, it wouldn’t be a billion dollar industry. My point is, every corporation hammering the “we are inclusive” message feels inorganic. I might confuse this feeling with it just being “in” or trendy atm.”
I’m not holding any answers, I just like the discusdion, and it’s even more fun when people have other life experiences than me. Echo chaimers are boring.
As it should be. FUCKING VOTE! And remember, by not voting for Biden, you are voting for Trump whether or not you actually cast a vote. ALL of the Trump supporters WILL show up on the day.
Either way you’re voting for a Palestinian genocide and the continuation of neoliberal imperialism.
Edit: the future is bleak either way, Biden has explicitly shown support for the continuation of support for Israel as well as the bombing campaign in Yemen and Syria. All this is to say that there is genuinely nothing we can do to help the middle east in this election.
But sure, we can get a better minimum wage or whatever.
No. You don’t get to tell me that I have to vote for Biden when he’s not doing anything to earn my vote. He’s allowing Israel to carry out a genocide. So he’s not actually less evil than Trump. You’re just upset because Trump’s shitty policies will impact you more than Biden’s shitty policies. Biden has the lower approval ratings than Trump did at this point. He has not earned a second term.
How about the Dems run a candidate who isn’t dog shit? I vote for Dems as a form of harm reduction, but they aren’t reducing harm anymore. So what’s in it for me? Dems haven’t not done anything about the supreme court, student loans, or threats to democracy and they are largely supporting the actions of Israel. If I’m right, and this is a genocide (I am), then voting for anyone who supports it would be an evil act. They’re going to have to make some changes if they want to earn the votes of people who don’t want to see a genocide carried out on our watch with our bombs.
That said, it would be a real problem if Trump won. So if that happens, I hope you’ll be willing to place the blame where it belongs: with the Democrats. They are the ones doing nothing to earn our votes. Biden isn’t even campaigning.
New copypasta?
That said, it would be a real problem if Trump won. So if that happens, I hope you’ll be willing to place the blame where it belongs: with the Democrats. They are the ones doing nothing to earn our votes. Biden isn’t even campaigning.
Biden is governing. He’s doing the job he was elected to do. Perhaps that’s enough to earn some votes? Or are votes only earnt by rallies and advertisements?
In any case, it’s completely silly to blame the Democrats for losing if you don’t vote for them yourself. If you prefer Democrats over republicans, then you have to vote for them. Even though they aren’t perfect. If you don’t vote, then it is totally unreasonable to blame anyone else for getting an undesired outcome. Not voting implies that you have no preference.
(And yet again, this is another case where ‘ranked choice’ voting / preferential / instant-runoff would make this whole situation a lot easier. USA could really use some serious electoral reform.)
Of course nobody can tell you who you have to vote for.
But regardless of your choice and your reasons, the math of the votes in our stupid system does mean that voting for anybody but Biden, including voting for nobody, helps Trump or his Republican replacement.
If you don’t care about that, that’s fine. Some might argue that you SHOULD care, but that’s a different conversation. The voting decision is a private one that’s yours alone, but understanding how the choices affect the outcome is good for everybody.
Jokes on them, log cabins are affordable these days.
cool post, but political party affiliation means nothing when both sides of the “political spectrum” are actually the same side which are in the pockets of the same individuals who wish to putrify society, the results of which lead to this exact news article :)
Unless all these Gen Z kids actually fucking VOTE it won’t matter, because Boomers fucking do.
Oh, you think the choices are trash? Well fucking vote in the primaries then. Get involved at a local level, and start promoting candidates that represent you. Don’t just bitch and moan that the choice is between a codger and senile draft-dodger.
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I think 28% of the population belongs in the lgbtq+ spectrum. a lot of older people were closeted, or actually unaware of their own sexuality. Younger people might just have an easier time coming out about it.
also, less and less young people are right leaning as the years go by, and the republican brand will be irredeemably tarnished for all future generations as the party of literal fascism, so get ready for even less of a share of future generations voting R.
